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What Defines a Great Guitarist?
Old 22nd January 2020
  #61
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telecode's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Second, suffering enough pain in your live experiences to actually have something to say in your music.
^^ Oh jeezzz.. This isn't the 1800s and Van Gogh we are taking about. The modern human living in the Western world (especially the kind that is a Gibson or Fender customer who can go out and spend $1K to $2K for a middle of the road quality guitar) leads a fairly comfortable existence. Where is the suffering that Satriani or Bonamassa or a Michael Landau needed to go through to become great players. Just regular guys living the American dream.
Old 22nd January 2020
  #62
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode View Post
^^ Oh jeezzz.. This isn't the 1800s and Van Gogh we are taking about. The modern human living in the Western world (especially the kind that is a Gibson or Fender customer who can go out and spend $1K to $2K for a middle of the road quality guitar) leads a fairly comfortable existence. Where is the suffering that Satriani or Bonamassa or a Michael Landau needed to go through to become great players. Just regular guys living the American dream.
satriani tried for around 10 years and almost gave up before making it, he was a teacher so could have easily have had a decent career doing that, his career didn't really take off straight away as a live performer/artist, so none of them got handed it on a plate, I'm sure there was hard work involved in their success and a lot of set backs they had along the way.
Old 22nd January 2020
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
None of that crap.

Two things :

First, taste.

Second, suffering enough pain in your live experiences to actually have something to say in your music.
I agree with this in that a lot of good "art" comes from suffering. However, to pull out a "suffering meter" on a great guitarist/musician/artist,etc. is absurd.

You can link one's suffering to his songs, but you can't necessarily link good songs to one's suffering.
Old 22nd January 2020
  #64
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telecode's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pencilextremist View Post
satriani tried for around 10 years and almost gave up before making it, he was a teacher so could have easily have had a decent career doing that, his career didn't really take off straight away as a live performer/artist, so none of them got handed it on a plate, I'm sure there was hard work involved in their success and a lot of set backs they had along the way.
yeah. i am sure all of them worked very hard and had tons of disciple. but we aren't taking about these players being coal miners or rural cotton pickers or coming from heavy heavy poverty. some of the blues guys were the real deal. so was mile davis. we can laugh about him now being a pimp at one point -- but the reality is people like him came from a very violent and poverty stricken underworld of society. miles and miles removed from...




:-(
Old 22nd January 2020
  #65
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enorbet2's Avatar
Well eternalsound. I dunno 'bout you but I didn't grow up with hardly anyone who looked like those kids especially after that Mustang became "Vintage". I'm not certain but I don't think most real surfers have looked like that since the early 60s and almost certainly not any of the ones that would become professional musicians. One form of pain and alienation that takes place for aspiring pros is not having a practical means to support a family usually until at least the late 30s if not later or in many cases, never. It is a weird twist on the psyche to leave an environment of adulation and privilege to come home to being the schlub who was gone for most of the month who should've been there to take out the garbage.

Most of my ol' buddies are comfortable with families, nice homes and full medical now but that didn't happen until most of them were nearly 40 and coming up most of my friends, especially musicians and environment looked more like this....



Oh yeah and not a few of them died before ever enjoying a comfortable life.
Old 23rd January 2020
  #66
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vincentvangogo's Avatar
 

I don't think you need to have suffered cottonfield-level hardship to be a great artist (it may even make you less accessible to many people,) but if you haven't experienced any serious pain - especially emotional - I don't think you can touch people on more than a superficial level.
I also don't think you necessarily have to have experienced great suffering personally. It can be via others and being naturally sympathetic or sensitive to their pain.
Old 23rd January 2020
  #67
Gear Addict
 
Lunar Attic's Avatar
- Taste
- Tone
- Timing

T
Old 23rd January 2020
  #68
Gear Addict
Trance
Thorns
Telepathy
Tarnish
Old 24th January 2020
  #69
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalsound View Post
You're post is hardly a disguise. Don't think a fairly recent history won't repeat itself yet again. It always has and it always will; because in the end you _always fail_ and _get kicked to the curb over and over again_.
Is anyone else in this thread being harassed by this weirdo? Sending odd private message threats...

Also, its “your” not “you’re.” We aren’t gonna kick you out of the country for misspellings, though, so don’t worry too much.
Old 24th January 2020
  #70
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chazmar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattpyter View Post
Is anyone else in this thread being harassed by this weirdo? Sending odd private message threats...

Also, its “your” not “you’re.” We aren’t gonna kick you out of the country for misspellings, though, so don’t worry too much.
Funny: I don't see "Country" in there? Sure you're not "self concluding" something in this??

Maybe it had something to do with your apparent interest in pe*****lia and your posts here about it.

That did make a lot of our stomachs turn around here.
Old 24th January 2020
  #71
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clump's Avatar
 

I think a creative and curious mind, together with a modicum of technical prowess...often the quest for, or too much, dexterity can stifle the creative potential.

And, as with all art, what is "great" is very much subjective.....an example of this would be the fact that I, for instance, think that Neil Young's guitar solos are far superior to those of, say Eric Clapton......I know plenty of people would shoot me down for this, that's why I wear a bullet proof vest.
Old 25th January 2020
  #72
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattpyter View Post
Releasing loads of guitar [email protected] albums, none of which have any direction, yet enough to stir a comatose patient into anger, waking up and violently shaking all his limbs while demanding a massive amount of icecold bottled beer.

edit: almost forgot, everything is meaningless garbage unless a tube amp is in there, mixed behind the sim amps of course, and produced by a grammy winner that works for Universal or one of their subsidiaries, because they actually know what guitar music should sound like - being around all the best hip hop artists and whatnot
No insult intended, but this HAS to be one of the most idiotic posts I've eve seen in my over a decade on Gearslutz.

Is this a real, sincere post?

I don't believe it.

I believe this is another idiotic troll post.

CUT IT OUT!
Old 25th January 2020
  #73
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalsound View Post
I agree with this in that a lot of good "art" comes from suffering. However, to pull out a "suffering meter" on a great guitarist/musician/artist,etc. is absurd.
No, it's not. In fact that's entirely the point.

But you wouldn't understand that, would you?
Old 25th January 2020
  #74
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode View Post
^^ Oh jeezzz.. This isn't the 1800s and Van Gogh we are taking about. The modern human living in the Western world (especially the kind that is a Gibson or Fender customer who can go out and spend $1K to $2K for a middle of the road quality guitar) leads a fairly comfortable existence. Where is the suffering that Satriani or Bonamassa or a Michael Landau needed to go through to become great players. Just regular guys living the American dream.
You wouldn't know, would you.

And using Bonamassa as a yardstick? Seriously? He's really not a very good blues player. "Blooze", maybe.

He can't hold a candle to Peter Green, Danny Kirwan, Mike Bloomfield, or BB King.

Not even close. Not even Clapton before he burned out.

Bonamassa is....... uninteresting.

Satriani is the modern equivalent of The Ventures, which is fine, as far as it goes.

Dunno Landau.
Old 25th January 2020
  #75
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post

Oh yeah and not a few of them died before ever enjoying a comfortable life.
I'm not dead yet and my life has NEVER been comfortable. Not since I was a toddler, at least.
Old 25th January 2020
  #76
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode View Post
yeah. i am sure all of them worked very hard and had tons of disciple. but we aren't taking about these players being coal miners or rural cotton pickers or coming from heavy heavy poverty. some of the blues guys were the real deal. so was mile davis. we can laugh about him now being a pimp at one point -- but the reality is people like him came from a very violent and poverty stricken underworld of society. miles and miles removed from...




:-(
What the BLOODY HELL do you know about it?

Absolutely NOTHING I would wager.
Old 25th January 2020
  #77
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telecode's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post

Dunno Landau.
http://www.fendercustomshop.com/seri...olor-sunburst/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbQJTAXVwUo

Session guy.
Old 25th January 2020
  #78
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telecode's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
What the BLOODY HELL do you know about it?

Absolutely NOTHING I would wager.
I think the point I was trying to get across with that image was, the idea that you need to have lived and experienced "pain" or "hard ship" does not equate to a requirement to be able to make good music or be a great artist.

Sure, some of the true greats in American music did come from real hardships, from a background of poverty and working in the fields. Certain Blues and Jazz artists, mostly black musicians mostly.

But there are a lot of true greats that rose out of the 60s and 70s who essentially were just middle class kids from suburbs. To name a few, Todd Rundgren (grew up in Philadelphia suburbs), Ry Cooder (Los Angeles suburbs), Joe Walsh, Prince (Minneapolis suburbs) e.t.c. There are many more I am sure. What they all sort of had in common was they were at the right place at the right time and more importantly, they were obsessed with their craft and making music. As young men, they kept releasing a steady steam of music and touring and gaining popularity. As older men, they still kept at it, even in their 50s and 60s.. Even when they lost record contracts, and lost all sorts of stuff that used to exist for them back in their hey day 70s. It doesnt matter one bit, they just kept releasing music.
Old 25th January 2020
  #79
Deleted b6cd99c
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
You wouldn't know, would you.
And using Bonamassa as a yardstick? Seriously? He's really not a very good blues player. "Blooze", maybe.
You're grandiose sweeping statements that pollute these forums are laughable.

I know you love Wiki - so here is a bit of info for you:

"When he was 12 years old, Bonamassa opened for B.B. King.[2] In the last 13 years Bonamassa has put out 15 solo albums through his independent record label J&R Adventures, of which 11 have reached number 1 on the Billboard Blues charts.[2][3]

Bonamassa has played alongside such artists as Stephen Stills, Eric Clapton, Blondie Chaplin, Wizbit, Foreigner, Buddy Guy, Steve Winwood, Warren Haynes, Journey, Solomon Hicks,and Derek Trucks among others.[4] His career highlights include performances at the Royal Albert Hall and a Grammy Award nomination in 2013. In addition to his music career, Joe Bonamassa runs a nonprofit organization called the Keeping the Blues Alive Foundation, whose mission is to further music education by funding scholarships and providing music education resources to schools in need."

JB is one of the most enthusiastic and generous players out there, and fine, if you don't like him, I'm sure it ain't gonna ruin his day.

Who did you open for when you were 12 years old Epstein?

And what have you done since, besides becoming a bitter old man?
Old 25th January 2020
  #80
the idea that one must come from a background of poverty to be a 'true success' is completely flawed and needs to scrutinised, there are a lot of people who come from middle class backgrounds who hit the bigtime and also rich people, does it really matter what social class you come from? looking down on anybody who's not from a poverty stricken background is a form of snobbery, just as judgemental as the upper classes mocking peasants and poor people.
Old 25th January 2020
  #81
Gear Addict
 

So many things you can say about a good guitarist but for me a few things are important; tone, signature sound, originality and what you say with a guitar.
I remember the energy when I saw Rory Gallagher four times live on stage always giving his best, such a great guitarist!
But there are so many different good guitarists in their own right.
A few of my favorites and all so different are; Robin Trower, Jeff Beck, Wes Montgomery, Duane Allmann, Chett Atkins and Danny Gatton (he could play everything)
Old 25th January 2020
  #82
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telecode's Avatar
The thing you need to do is see them in a small venue to get a idea of how good they really are. The big guitarists are usually in a stadium setting and I think you don't get the real experience.

I think it is a combination o a great sound guy, the player, and the persona. A few come to mind. There was a little known guitarist named John Campbell. Blues guy. He blew the roof of the place. Electrifying performer. The real deal. None of the CD's did him justice to his live show. He died unfortunately. Maybe a troubled fellow.
Old 26th January 2020
  #83
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GreenNeedle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalsound View Post
Technique? Style? Writing? Showmanship? Looks? Uses tube amps? Uses sims? What?

The ability to transmit/translate/transfer ethereal energy from a place not of substance to one of substance without ****ing it all up in the process.
Old 26th January 2020
  #84
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robert82's Avatar
You hear it on the radio . . . you have no visual, you have no backstory, you have no context . . . all you know is it's freakin' awesome, and you don't give a rat's tuchas about rich or poor - it just knocks yer socks off!
Old 27th January 2020
  #85
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PdotDdot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
As far as I am concerned THIS defines not only a great guitarist but THE GREATEST.

https://www.facebook.com/MusicIsLife...4970231525344/

Just FTR I don't use Facebook or any insidious surveillance software but this is safe not requiring an account or any sort of ID.
I wish I'd been to this concert. What a great show and this tune is something! Thanks for posting.
Old 27th January 2020
  #86
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PdotDdot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalsound View Post
They did well with it, and expanding too. Have you ever seen some of their written arrangements in notation?

F'n genius writing.
Just my opinion but - The Beatles made the best music I've ever heard period. I still adore them and their catalog of wonderful songs - also the way they recorded and performed them. As I am now entering the sunset years one of the things I think about once in a while is that time is running out for me to listen to their music and that I should remember to listen to them more often. A sobering thought for me!
Old 27th January 2020
  #87
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
I'm not dead yet and my life has NEVER been comfortable. Not since I was a toddler, at least.
Doesn't look like you're struggling much for food tbh.
Old 27th January 2020
  #88
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PdotDdot View Post
Just my opinion but - The Beatles made the best music I've ever heard period. I still adore them and their catalog of wonderful songs - also the way they recorded and performed them. As I am now entering the sunset years one of the things I think about once in a while is that time is running out for me to listen to their music and that I should remember to listen to them more often. A sobering thought for me!
Agreed. Never trust anyone who doesn't love the Beatles!
Old 27th January 2020
  #89
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GreenNeedle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
You wouldn't know, would you.

And using Bonamassa as a yardstick? Seriously? He's really not a very good blues player. "Blooze", maybe.

He can't hold a candle to Peter Green, Danny Kirwan, Mike Bloomfield, or BB King.

Not even close. Not even Clapton before he burned out.

Bonamassa is....... uninteresting.

Satriani is the modern equivalent of The Ventures, which is fine, as far as it goes.

Dunno Landau.
In the interest of understand how you are rating players, how would you rate Derek Trucks?
Old 27th January 2020
  #90
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PdotDdot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan Steppstein View Post
yeah man, like, when did Clapton catch fire, I thought that was Michael Jackson

still, glad they put him out man, nothing worse than burnt spandex..

ps three chords and a lotta pain will get ya'll there ...
I similar quote that I believe may come from Harlan Howard - "Country Music is three chords and the truth".

Last edited by PdotDdot; 28th January 2020 at 02:21 AM.. Reason: Correction
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