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Why amp sims are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist
Old 4 days ago
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Why amp sims are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist

Let's be real: "Amp Simulation" only exists because people either can't afford real amps, don't have proper studios or can't tell the difference between the amazing dynamics of real tube tone and the thin, harsh, effeminate copies of real tone.
A whole industry has grown from selling this audio snake oil to foolish kids who've probably never even heard Neil Young and definitely never experienced the feeling of a stack of 4x12s smashing the creases out of your denim with their sheer power.
It's pointless even talking to the Sim Cultists so I've set up this thread for real guitarists with real ears and proper taste to discuss the superiority of the real thing. That way we won't be bothered by idiots who don't know what they're talking about.
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Old 4 days ago
  #2
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Is this the thread for real men?
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Old 4 days ago
  #3
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by owen_musician View Post
Let's be real: "Amp Simulation" only exists because people either can't afford real amps, don't have proper studios or can't tell the difference between the amazing dynamics of real tube tone and the thin, harsh, effeminate copies of real tone.
A whole industry has grown from selling this audio snake oil to foolish kids who've probably never even heard Neil Young and definitely never experienced the feeling of a stack of 4x12s smashing the creases out of your denim with their sheer power.
It's pointless even talking to the Sim Cultists so I've set up this thread for real guitarists with real ears and proper taste to discuss the superiority of the real thing. That way we won't be bothered by idiots who don't know what they're talking about.
The problem is that this "cheaper" alternative is VERY expensive for the better "solutions" (AxeFx, Kemper, Helix)
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Old 4 days ago
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Ragan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by owen_musician View Post
Let's be real: "Amp Simulation" only exists because people either can't afford real amps, don't have proper studios or can't tell the difference between the amazing dynamics of real tube tone and the thin, harsh, effeminate copies of real tone.
A whole industry has grown from selling this audio snake oil to foolish kids who've probably never even heard Neil Young and definitely never experienced the feeling of a stack of 4x12s smashing the creases out of your denim with their sheer power.
It's pointless even talking to the Sim Cultists so I've set up this thread for real guitarists with real ears and proper taste to discuss the superiority of the real thing. That way we won't be bothered by idiots who don't know what they're talking about.
Brilliant meta-tactic. Like planting nasturtiums at the other end of your yard to attract the aphids away from your cabbages.
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Old 4 days ago
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
The problem is that this "cheaper" alternative is VERY expensive for the better "solutions" (AxeFx, Kemper, Helix)
Exactly. And even cheap tube amp is going to give better tone and dynamics than even the most expensive modelers. Plus if you buy a classic (VOX Plexi, Marshall AC30 or Fender Boogie etc) then it's not only an investment but it's a sound that won't suddenly become worthless when the latest 'chip' comes out.
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Old 4 days ago
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Jens L.'s Avatar
I'm in!
Old 4 days ago
  #7
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https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/10-...ic-guitar-amps

Funny how the Beatles managed to make millions from music without once having to use sims. Same with Hendrix and Sammy Hagar. Love to see the "Top Ten Iconic Sims of All Time" list

Deluded!
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Old 4 days ago
  #8
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Ragan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by owen_musician View Post
https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/10-...ic-guitar-amps

Funny how the Beatles managed to make millions from music without once having to use sims. Same with Hendrix and Sammy Hagar. Love to see the "Top Ten Iconic Sims of All Time" list

Deluded!
Ok...you're too good at this.
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Old 4 days ago
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Even solid state tubes are better than digital.

"Part of the “VOX Individual Line”, the Pathfinder 10 Denim is has been painstakingly wrapped in premium Iron Heart denim cloth, with its corners meticulously fastened by genuine rivets. In the spirit of true collaboration, the iconic Iron Heart tag is affixed to the front of the amplifier.

The premium denim covering on this VOX amplifier will age naturally over time with use, becoming as unique as your guitar playing."

Now show me even one so-called 'sim amp' that comes in denim. Pathetic.
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Old 4 days ago
  #10
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Now we're finally talking!
Old 4 days ago
  #11
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Now tell me amp sims sound as good as literally the best solo ever (if anyone doubts me it says it in the YouTube description so it can't even be disputed). Sustain!
Old 4 days ago
  #12
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Now if someone literally called The Tone King can't get a decent tone out of the so-called latest and greatest modeller, what chance do the sim kids have - when they're probably not even real kings?
Sad!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TkkWu5DsmDw
Old 4 days ago
  #13
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Now we're finally talking!
Yeah, just got this yesterday.
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Old 4 days ago
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owen_musician View Post


Now tell me amp sims sound as good as literally the best solo ever (if anyone doubts me it says it in the YouTube description so it can't even be disputed). Sustain!
"...you would, though, if it were playing."
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Old 4 days ago
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Yeah, just got this yesterday.
How does that Koch feel? Is it big and girthy? It sure looks like it's got balls. I know it's all a matter of taste but how does that Koch measure up against others you've worked on over the years?

I reckon most big boy guitarists here know you need an actual physical tube if you want real aural penetration. Delusional sim kids will never know what being penetrated by a tube really feels like.
Sad!
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Old 4 days ago
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owen_musician View Post
... a classic (VOX Plexi, Marshall AC30 or Fender Boogie etc)
exactly! NOTHING beats a VOX Plexi!
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Old 4 days ago
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragan View Post
"...but you would, if it were being played."
I can hear that sustain even after I've closed down the video. Show me an amp sim that can do that, amirite?

Also, it's worth pointing out that the Internet itself is kind of like a series of tubes. I rest my case!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f99PcP0aFNE
Old 4 days ago
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owen_musician View Post
real aural penetration.
Dude... please, I'm just having coffee and at least for today there's *zero* plans to get a new keyboard.
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Old 4 days ago
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Old 4 days ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
During the gig I really can't hear any difference (being another member of the band).
Man, you must be wrong. Because, I mean, toobz!
Old 4 days ago
  #21
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Didn't you folks know that "toobz" rhyming with "boobz" isn't just a coincidence? Go figure!
Old 4 days ago
  #22
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by owen_musician View Post
How does that Koch feel? Is it big and girthy? It sure looks like it's got balls. I know it's all a matter of taste but how does that Koch measure up against others you've worked on over the years?

I reckon most big boy guitarists here know you need an actual physical tube if you want real aural penetration. Delusional sim kids will never know what being penetrated by a tube really feels like.
Sad!
Physically medium size and weight. One hand job. Nice, juicy trannie. 50W - 2xel34, 3x12ax7 plus the inverter. Modern clean (sorta like my Matchless Phoenix) with nice overdrive. The second channel - gain for days. Direct recording out and PA out, and a controlled FX loop. Its actually REALLY good, and i payed only $700AU (approx $483US) for the head
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Old 4 days ago
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Two problems.
1) You have 100% made your mind up, so no room for honest debate or anyone else's opinions unless it 100% aligns with yours.
2) The world has moved on.
Just one tiny example - a band I play in fills 5,000 seater stadiums. We travel far and wide without record company or management support. Both our guitarists use Kemper. There is no way to get a tube amp onto a long haul flight, as well as their guitars which already rack up $$$ excess baggage fees. You can't rely on renting great sounding physical amps all over the world. They often turn up damaged or bad sounding.
During the gig I really can't hear any difference (being another member of the band).

With your uber purist attitude, not many guitarists would work outside of a home studio or local studio, or tour without big budget cartage.
No offense but everyone involved (band members, fans and, I'm afraid to say the airline staff have some responsibility here too) clearly don't understand what good tone is or just don't have ears capable of hearing the difference. And frankly, stadiums are the last place you should be playing if you understand tone.

If you really want to hear the difference between your Kemper Rig FX HD and a proper amp like a '53 Tweed Boogieplex you need to play your original reissue Les Paul 79 (+ Mogadishu cables with vintage 50s platinum connector rods) either *after* you get back from the office in your basement or on Saturday nights at Skeeter's.

You don't see Neil Young worrying about excess baggage, do you? Damn millenials. Grow a pair and get a Koch like the guy earlier.
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Old 4 days ago
  #24
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Two problems.
1) You have 100% made your mind up, so no room for honest debate or anyone else's opinions unless it 100% aligns with yours.
2) The world has moved on.
Just one tiny example - a band I play in fills 5,000 seater stadiums. We travel far and wide without record company or management support. Both our guitarists use Kemper. There is no way to get a tube amp onto a long haul flight, as well as their guitars which already rack up $$$ excess baggage fees. You can't rely on renting great sounding physical amps all over the world. They often turn up damaged or bad sounding.
During the gig I really can't hear any difference (being another member of the band).

With your uber purist attitude, not many guitarists would work outside of a home studio or local studio, or tour without big budget cartage.
My new one came in a flight case, nice and safe. Built like a brick s**t house. If you cannot fly the cab - use a speaker sim (my 2 notes fits in a biggish pocket). Case 580mmx360mmx350mm. If desperate pull the tubes and re-insert on arrival ~5min job.
I know how Kempers are made - pretty flimsy, and would require a similar size case to keep them safe.
Dont make mountains out of mould hills. People were moving amps for decades. And my modular setup is lighter and smaller the a Kemper and gives plenty of options.
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Old 4 days ago
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Amps are for old farts who can't get in touch with modern music like Slayer and Saxon, not for frustrated amateurs who spend all day sniveling on Gearslutz and mocking dead guitarists who actually accomplished something.

A guy like you who's played with Gilmour should know that.
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Old 4 days ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
Amps are for old farts who can't get in touch with modern music like Slayer and Saxon, not for frustrated amateurs who spend all day sniveling on Gearslutz and mocking dead guitarists who actually accomplished something.

A guy like you who's played with Gilmour should know that.
You must have me confused with someone else. I've never had any contact with anyone who's made millions from playing guitar.
All I know is, if someone can't tell the difference between a real amp and a sim they wouldn't be able to make millions playing guitar.

Look, if you think sims are so good why don't you post me some Wings tracks where they use them? Or is being the band the Beatles COULD have been not good enough for you?

I'll wait.
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Old 4 days ago
  #27
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I fear your honeypot has caught the wrong species of fly.
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Old 4 days ago
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owen_musician View Post
I've never had any contact with anyone who's made millions from playing guitar.
You said you've played on stage with Gilmour right? He's made millions. You played with Wings too?

Dude. if you can't sound and play like this modern music, your amp is not your problem:
Old 4 days ago
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
You said you've played on stage with Gilmour right? He's made millions. You played with Wings too?

Dude. if you can't sound and play like this modern music, your amp is not your problem:
Like I said you must have me confused with someone else. I play in my basement after work and Skeeter's every other Saturday. I've never had ANY contact *even on this thread* with anyone who's made millions playing guitar.

No need for bullying just because you can't find any examples of Wings using your beloved sims. If tube amps were good enough for Linda McCartney they're good enough for me. Or maybe you think you're more of a musician than her?
Deluded.

Still waiting for your top 37 examples of sims used by Robert Johnson. Funny how you don't seem to be able to find any videos of the INVENTOR of blues guitar using sims. Maybe the reason is they're just not that good. Ever thought about that, buddy?
Sad.
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Old 4 days ago
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owen_musician View Post
Linda McCartney
Robert Johnson.
Sad.

Whatever dude. Even a sim master of modern muzak like this has shelves full of speakers behind him:




And it has totally realistic mic placement!
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