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Kemper vs Fender Deluxe Reverb
Old 13th December 2019
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
I know it's wrong on every level, but have you tried the BassBreaker? I was shocked when I tried it, probably wouldn't last more than a few days though with modern cheap construction techniques but the one I tried was surprisingly good, punchier than I expected too.
Yes I did and it sounded amazing. But a little weak on the clean side. And you have to crank it to have that beautiful overdrive which is too loud for me. :(
Old 13th December 2019
  #62
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Originally Posted by guavadude View Post


Throw some links at me of your favorite tones. Might should be in a different thread. I'll see how close I can come and use that as a benchmark.
Always wondered if Kemper can come close to these kind of warm strat tones.






And this is an overdrive tone I absolutely adore:

Old 13th December 2019
  #63
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guavadude's Avatar
Awesome, this will help me dial in what people want out of their gear and turn me on to artists I might have overlooked.
I’m going to start a new thread and paste this in.
Thx!
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Old 13th December 2019
  #64
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guavadude's Avatar
I’ve started a thread here for emulating killer tones and posting examples.
Emulating Killer Tonez!
@ madseason
Would you please repost your links there. These are good examples! Thx
@ Snorktop

Hit me up with some Blake Mills, I’m up for the challenge! I may crash and burn but that’ll be a good way to go.
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Old 13th December 2019
  #65
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Snorktop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
I know it's wrong on every level, but have you tried the BassBreaker? I was shocked when I tried it, probably wouldn't last more than a few days though with modern cheap construction techniques but the one I tried was surprisingly good, punchier than I expected too.
Why is that wrong? Its cool sounding awesome on cheap, common, light, easily replaceable gear, as you sim guys know. Melt skulls with a Squier and Blues Jr. Or my little old Peavey and no pedals (its GREAT, instant Skynyrd, got for $100).

It's cool to me playing a gig just on a laptop if you are the featured artist. A thin one. On a stool with a glass of water. That is minimal. You know I don't like the tone, but I'll try that sometime just for coolness.

The 15w Bassbreaker is a cool little amp, cool early breakup but like dude said thin on the cleans. I prefer a Blues Jr, its more versatile.

I traded this guy some vintage blackface for tweed. Great guy, great player. Loves SRV:




This isn't the tone I'd want dude to replicate, just thought of him from the above clip. I like Derek's tone better. Hardest to replicate might be be some ultra woolly, warm, dirty, nasty, sleazy, buzzy, honky, noisy tweed, I'll search something later. I've heard the Kemper sound pretty much identical in some of these A/B video demos, but more revealing to me is how it sounds in the finished product.

Last edited by Snorktop; 13th December 2019 at 07:37 AM..
Old 13th December 2019
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude View Post

I mentioned it before but the best tones I've heard out of the Kemper are by using pedals in front because digital distortion sounds like ass. Stick a real Klon or Tube Driver in front of the Kemper and it gets better.
Yes the Kemper takes pedals in front extremely well.

I've found a trick to distortion in the Kemper is to not rely on the Kemper Gain setting. Obviously the results from the Kemper is always hugely dependent on the guitar/pickups and the profile, but generally you cannot simply increase the Gain incrementally on any profile and expect good results as the Gain is increased.

For decent distortion in the Kemper I've found for most profiles a combination of Kemper Gain, and additionally for better distortion, a Kemper pedal stomp(s) is needed.

For my Strat single coils I use a clean profile with progressive amounts of Gain, but much more importantly to increase the quality of the distortion, I additionally use the One DS at 10.0 Drive. Depending on the guitar; 5.0 Tone, 56% Mix and +3 Vol. Playing live I think it's important for your solos to not get lost (if you don't switch profiles for solos), to kick in a Pure Boost on a Stomp in the profile for leads. I use Pure Booster +2.5 vol. in a stomp. You could use a volume pedal, I prefer a Stomp.
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Old 13th December 2019
  #67
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bmanzer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude View Post
I will say that without a doubt the Kemper is the hardest piece of hardware I've ever used. It's like flying the space shuttle.
When friends point to the Kemper rack and ask what it is I tell them "It's my guitar computer."
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Old 13th December 2019
  #68
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jwh1192's Avatar
it's an AM Radio !!!
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Old 14th December 2019
  #69
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Originally Posted by madseason View Post
Thank you for the answer. I've seen demos of tonemasters. They look pretty cool. But they are about the same price with the umpowered Kemper in my country. Do you think tonemasters sound better than Kemper?
No. And not nearly as versatile.
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Old 14th December 2019
  #70
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enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
I know it's wrong on every level, but have you tried the BassBreaker? I was shocked when I tried it, probably wouldn't last more than a few days though with modern cheap construction techniques but the one I tried was surprisingly good, punchier than I expected too.
Which version? While I like the 45 watt version, it seems the newer 30 benefited from the other, earlier 3, and gets the most rave reviews. I can't wait to play a 30.
Old 14th December 2019
  #71
Quote:
Originally Posted by itswintertime View Post
In that case I’d probably just get the Kemper - the DR’s big advantage is that it’s a “real” amp, but if the Kemper is cheaper or about the same and you’ll still feel inspired playing the Kemper, then you’re getting infinitely more versatility.

Is it better at the DR model than the TMDR? I don’t know, but there are so many great fender-type Kemper profiles out there (check out the tone monkey Kemper profiles of the Tone King Imperial - GORGEOUS), that I think you could probably find as good or better tones with the Kemper anyway.

Edit: and of course you can always get whatever real model DR you like and a good attenuator separately. If there’s an amp you just fuggin love but it’s too loud, that’s what I’d do.
The "DR" in question is NOT a "real amp". It's a digital hardware simulation of the real amp. Not even close to the real thing. (Shame on you, FMIC!)

The Kemper, OTOH, does profiles of real amps, which are essentially the same sound as that "real amp" being recorded on a good studio system.Of course that's only one particular setting of the real amp.

Not quite the same thing as the real amp live, but much better than any "amp sim".
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Old 14th December 2019
  #72
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Originally Posted by itswintertime View Post
In that case I’d probably just get the Kemper - the DR’s big advantage is that it’s a “real” amp, but if the Kemper is cheaper or about the same and you’ll still feel inspired playing the Kemper, then you’re getting infinitely more versatility.

Is it better at the DR model than the TMDR? I don’t know, but there are so many great fender-type Kemper profiles out there (check out the tone monkey Kemper profiles of the Tone King Imperial - GORGEOUS), that I think you could probably find as good or better tones with the Kemper anyway.

Edit: and of course you can always get whatever real model DR you like and a good attenuator separately. If there’s an amp you just fuggin love but it’s too loud, that’s what I’d do.
It's not a "real" amp. It's just a hardware based sim.
Old 14th December 2019
  #73
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Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
It's not a "real" amp. It's just a hardware based sim.
Define "real amp".
Old 14th December 2019
  #74
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I can’t understand choosing a sim over a tube amp for your main rig, especially for recording. Yes I use sims in Logic for practicing, say, or sometimes for a particular vibe on a track, but beyond that– a sim makes sense to me when the alternative is a $12,000 Jupiter 8 or a $20,000 Neumann U47, but real tube amps are plentiful and can be found for a few hundred dollars. Comparing the choice to, like, a Neve console as a commenter did upthread– huh? Why forego the pleasures of the beautiful response you get from a tube amp if it’s not cheaper or even that much more convenient? Maintenance? You can get tubes for ten bucks overnight from Amazon. Weight for lugging around live, ok maybe. But for recording? I don’t get it!
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Old 14th December 2019
  #75
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Originally Posted by Zasterz View Post
I can’t understand choosing a sim over a tube amp for your main rig, especially for recording. Yes I use sims in Logic for practicing, say, or sometimes for a particular vibe on a track,
Well, in case the Logic amps are your benchmark for amp sims, then I really don't know. There's the odd clean(-ish) model that is sort of ok for demo stuff, but anything else is among the worst amp sims you can find. Even most freeware is *vastly* superior.
If you compare sims to the real deal, you gotta look at the top tier modelers, not at the lousiest ones. Seriously, it's astounding Apple hasn't done anything about it, because given the pretty decent to even great quality of some of their other plugins, the amp sims are embarassingly bad.
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Old 14th December 2019
  #76
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Originally Posted by Zasterz View Post
I can’t understand choosing a sim over a tube amp for your main rig, especially for recording. Yes I use sims in Logic for practicing, say, or sometimes for a particular vibe on a track, but beyond that– a sim makes sense to me when the alternative is a $12,000 Jupiter 8 or a $20,000 Neumann U47, but real tube amps are plentiful and can be found for a few hundred dollars. Comparing the choice to, like, a Neve console as a commenter did upthread– huh? Why forego the pleasures of the beautiful response you get from a tube amp if it’s not cheaper or even that much more convenient? Maintenance? You can get tubes for ten bucks overnight from Amazon. Weight for lugging around live, ok maybe. But for recording? I don’t get it!
I would need too many different amps for the music i produce.
Big metal amp for downtuned Baritone guitar. Warm clean for fender Rhodes and crispy for clean funky guitar lines. Plus one or 2 for bass.

Plus my tube amps never sounded as good recorded at home as my kemper does now.

On a plus side: the Kemper ended my G. A. S..
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Old 14th December 2019
  #77
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zasterz View Post
I can’t understand choosing a sim over a tube amp for your main rig, especially for recording. Yes I use sims in Logic for practicing, say, or sometimes for a particular vibe on a track, but beyond that– a sim makes sense to me when the alternative is a $12,000 Jupiter 8 or a $20,000 Neumann U47, but real tube amps are plentiful and can be found for a few hundred dollars. Comparing the choice to, like, a Neve console as a commenter did upthread– huh? Why forego the pleasures of the beautiful response you get from a tube amp if it’s not cheaper or even that much more convenient? Maintenance? You can get tubes for ten bucks overnight from Amazon. Weight for lugging around live, ok maybe. But for recording? I don’t get it!
My question is, would Kemper sound better than tube amp-sm57-interface chain in a non treated apartment room?

I have a budget tube amp(Laney Cub 212r). For cleans, it sounds just a little bit better than the amp sims on the market with an sm57 in my room. For overdriven sounds, it actually sounds a bit worse than amp sims. And amp sims don't sound really good in the first place.

My fear is that buying a good tube amp, DR for instance, won't benefit me as much as buying a Kemper considering my circumstances. I'm still not sure.
Old 14th December 2019
  #78
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Originally Posted by madseason View Post
And amp sims don't sound really good in the first place.
So, which ones have you tried and what's the rest of your signal chain looking like when using software amps?
Old 14th December 2019
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
So, which ones have you tried and what's the rest of your signal chain looking like when using software amps?
I've tried demos of S-gear, Reaxis, Bias2, Guitar Rig, Archytpe:Plini, AmplifikationMatchlock, Nembrini mrh810 and some others I can't remember right now. Matchlock and S-gear were nice for cleans. Reaxis and mrh810 were nice for distortion. But never great. Didn't like any of them for low gain crunch.

I used a fender strat and RME Babyface Pro interface.

Maybe it's because I use singe coils. I have a feeling that amp sims don't react well to single coils.

What do you use? I'm open to try new things.
Old 14th December 2019
  #80
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guavadude's Avatar
@ madseason
It would help if you answered how, what, when and why?
How are you recording? A 57 on an amp can sound great but a good preamp makes a big difference.
Are you working on song demos, library tracks or guitar instrumentals?
Are you recording during the day or in the evening when neighbors are home, or at midnight?
Do you have the budget for pedals or a virtual speaker load box?

In a house, working on band tracks during the day I’d say a Deluxe will cover a lot of ground.
In an apartment working on library tracks at midnight, Kemper is a better fit.
Old 14th December 2019
  #81
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guavadude's Avatar
The best sounds I got out of amp sims are when I used a pedal in front of my interface. Digital dirt pedals sound bad for everything but fuzz.
A compressor or boss pedal or dirt or pretty much anything really helps going into the interface even when using the guitar inputs.
Turn OFF speaker simulation and use a separate plugin, Space Designer or Kazrog has a free IR loader, to host those new Celestion IRs.

Try all this first. It’s not the guitar or pickups.

Try this too, pretend your Laney is a clean DI box, so use an amp sim after on your recorded clean parts through the Laney.
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Old 14th December 2019
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude View Post
@ madseason
It would help if you answered how, what, when and why?
How are you recording? A 57 on an amp can sound great but a good preamp makes a big difference.
Are you working on song demos, library tracks or guitar instrumentals?
Are you recording during the day or in the evening when neighbors are home, or at midnight?
Do you have the budget for pedals or a virtual speaker load box?

In a house, working on band tracks during the day I’d say a Deluxe will cover a lot of ground.
In an apartment working on library tracks at midnight, Kemper is a better fit.

I don't have a preamp atm. I have an sm57, an sm7b and an interface. I'm working on song demos. And my main goal is to make an EP eventually.

I only record guitars and vocals, for rest I use midi, usually record during the day because I use the amp right now. Loudest I can go with this amp is master around volume 4, gain 3. It's a 15W 2x12 combo. I use a tube screamer (only pedal I have) for overdrive. It's LOUD, but neighbors didn't say anything yet.

My max budget is just the Deluxe. Pedals or loadboxes, I will need to build up slowly.

But I'm willing to do it IF it's going to sound better than Kemper. Eventually I'll need to get some acoustic treatment anyway because I want to record acoustic guitars too.



Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude View Post
The best sounds I got out of amp sims are when I used a pedal in front of my interface. Digital dirt pedals sound bad for everything but fuzz.
A compressor or boss pedal or dirt or pretty much anything really helps going into the interface even when using the guitar inputs.
Turn OFF speaker simulation and use a separate plugin, Space Designer or Kazrog has a free IR loader, to host those new Celestion IRs.

Try all this first. It’s not the guitar or pickups.

Try this too, pretend your Laney is a clean DI box, so use an amp sim after on your recorded clean parts through the Laney.
These are really good advice. Thank you very much.
Old 14th December 2019
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madseason View Post
I've tried demos of S-gear, Reaxis, Bias2, Guitar Rig, Archytpe:Plini, AmplifikationMatchlock, Nembrini mrh810 and some others I can't remember right now. Matchlock and S-gear were nice for cleans. Reaxis and mrh810 were nice for distortion. But never great. Didn't like any of them for low gain crunch.
Yeah, low gain crunch is pretty much like the litmus test of amps (and obviously sims as well).
Maybe you should check out IKMMs Amplitube Fender collection. They're pretty well received, from all I know.

Quote:
I used a fender strat and RME Babyface Pro interface.
That's pretty decent hardware to start with. If you have, you might want to check with a buffered bypass pedal in front of the interface, though. But in general, the newer RME instrument ins should be just fine (older ones weren't).

Quote:
Maybe it's because I use singe coils. I have a feeling that amp sims don't react well to single coils.
Hm, a decent amp sim should sound decent, regardless of the pickups.

Quote:
What do you use? I'm open to try new things.
I'm mainly using Line 6s Helix, both in it's hardware and software incarnations, which is one of the very reasons I'm using it. The combination of both is just fantastic as it allows for several things nothing else even remotely does.
Without the discount for hardware owners, the price for Helix Native is quite steep, though (400 bucks). They're having a sale every now and then. And there's a 14 days fully functional demo (which sucks as it needs permanent internet connection and is causing issues because of that - the registered version fortunately is fine).

I also own an Atomic Amplifirebox, but would only partially recommend that one. Pretty easy to deal with, though, and some really nice sounds.

If you want, post some DI guitar snipplets and I'll send them through what I have.
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Old 14th December 2019
  #84
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guavadude's Avatar
Honestly I don’t think you need a Kemper or Deluxe. For how you’re using it the Laney should get you really close.
The Kemper is overkill and expensive. You might be better off getting a cloud lifter or good pre.

An Sm7 through a Great River pre or similar is a pro vocal sound and can work for ac gtr too. Dynamic mics really wake up with a great preamp. Get good headphones too for tracking. I love the ATH-50. Treat your room a little. Even hanging blankets over mic stands and chairs can help.
Also put a piece of plywood down on carpet when tracking ac Maybe get a small condenser mic like Oktava 012 but a more sensitive mic will also show your room’s short comings more too.
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Old 14th December 2019
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Well, in case the Logic amps are your benchmark for amp sims, then I really don't know. There's the odd clean(-ish) model that is sort of ok for demo stuff, but anything else is among the worst amp sims you can find. Even most freeware is *vastly* superior.
If you compare sims to the real deal, you gotta look at the top tier modelers, not at the lousiest ones. Seriously, it's astounding Apple hasn't done anything about it, because given the pretty decent to even great quality of some of their other plugins, the amp sims are embarassingly bad.
No I mostly use Guitar Rig, and I like it and have used it on records for particular tones. But count me among the people who feel that for your basic, exploratory musical experiences, those moments of really getting into something, aka “feel”– I get all that from a tube amp, not a simulation. And again, I’d agree with “the sims are so good you can’t even tell when you hear the recording!” angle if we were comparing “Unobtanium” vs modeling, but when the target experience is cheaply available— I even have one of those $90 Monoprice Champ-style amps and it’s great— I wouldn’t want a sim as my main playing experience.
Old 14th December 2019
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madseason View Post
My question is, would Kemper sound better than tube amp-sm57-interface chain in a non treated apartment room?

I have a budget tube amp(Laney Cub 212r). For cleans, it sounds just a little bit better than the amp sims on the market with an sm57 in my room. For overdriven sounds, it actually sounds a bit worse than amp sims. And amp sims don't sound really good in the first place.

My fear is that buying a good tube amp, DR for instance, won't benefit me as much as buying a Kemper considering my circumstances. I'm still not sure.
I record a DR in my bathroom with an sm57 1” from the grille. At that distance you don’t need room treatment but it’s also possible to do temporary things with blankets and furniture in some cases. (FWIW I also have way more expensive mics, ribbon, tube, etc and sometimes I’ll put them up too but often it’s still the 57 that makes the cut.) But also the smaller amps really shine for recording— champs, supros, etc. if you’re not looking for something for shows too.

Also for recording preamps for guitar I really love Audient esp the ID14 which can be found cheaply used. I have more expensive preamps (Aurora, GML) but I swear by the Audient for guitar.
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Old 14th December 2019
  #87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Define "real amp".
Since you asked...

An "amp", or amplifier, is an electronic device that takes a weak signal and turns in into a stronger signal with a higher power (wattage, amps x volts) output.

This process is called "amplification". Real amps amplify.

"Amp sims" don't. The take a line level signal from the input of the interface and output a line level signal from the output of the interface.

But you already knew that, right?
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Old 14th December 2019
  #88
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Originally Posted by madseason View Post
Yes I did and it sounded amazing. But a little weak on the clean side. And you have to crank it to have that beautiful overdrive which is too loud for me. :(
Two words: attenuator box.
Old 14th December 2019
  #89
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guavadude's Avatar
Another option is to record your parts direct using sims, then reamp at a studio that has amps. Shouldn’t take more than an hour or two.
You could also mix there. You’ll learn a lot about recording in a shorter time watching pros.
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Old 14th December 2019
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Yeah, low gain crunch is pretty much like the litmus test of amps (and obviously sims as well).
Maybe you should check out IKMMs Amplitube Fender collection. They're pretty well received, from all I know.



That's pretty decent hardware to start with. If you have, you might want to check with a buffered bypass pedal in front of the interface, though. But in general, the newer RME instrument ins should be just fine (older ones weren't).



Hm, a decent amp sim should sound decent, regardless of the pickups.



I'm mainly using Line 6s Helix, both in it's hardware and software incarnations, which is one of the very reasons I'm using it. The combination of both is just fantastic as it allows for several things nothing else even remotely does.
Without the discount for hardware owners, the price for Helix Native is quite steep, though (400 bucks). They're having a sale every now and then. And there's a 14 days fully functional demo (which sucks as it needs permanent internet connection and is causing issues because of that - the registered version fortunately is fine).

I also own an Atomic Amplifirebox, but would only partially recommend that one. Pretty easy to deal with, though, and some really nice sounds.

If you want, post some DI guitar snipplets and I'll send them through what I have.
I should take a look at the line6. Might consider Helix over Kemper since it's more affordable. I'm not home right now so I don't have access to my stuff. :(

Thank you very much
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