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Kemper vs Fender Deluxe Reverb
Old 10th December 2019
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
And here comes the attacks and hostility from the sim cult - right on cue.

If it can sound really good for blackfacey styles and sounds, link something (in a full mix). Nothing like that on the Kemper discography. I'm sure everyone would like to hear that.

If you are telling dude a Kemper can do what an actual blackface does hands down, you are being disingenuous and misleading.
Seeing as you came off sounding like a high priest of the 'only real tube amps' cult what did you expect? My limited experience with sims, and very old ones at that. Early Pod versions. If you work at it you can get good tones. Most presets aren't very good. But that was 15 years ago, they've come a long way. For an apartment/bedroom situation for home recording it's just fine. Otherwise some sort of amp/iso cab setup.
Old 10th December 2019
  #32
Yeah, the Kemper is the way to go for your situation. Just be aware that the sound is the recorded/control room sound, not the sound of the amp in the room. Without a real amp for you to profile yourself you will never know just how close it is, but trust me it is very close. When it comes to deluxe verbs of course the spring verb is a must and it has a very nice model of one in there, I used it on a quick man of mystery cover when Kemper first added it (excuse the poor playing but you get an idea of the verb) :



With regards the other comments here. I’m not sure what you guys who say it sounds terrible or is fx laden have been listening to but most Kemper tracks I’ve heard tend to be dry as heck and sound the same as their real amp counterparts, honestly it sounds like you’re just trotting out the old arguments against sims from the distant past in general without having heard any actual Kemper tracks? (Or even any modern sim tracks come to that, they’ve all come a long way and chances are you’re not even aware of what is or is not a sim that you’ve heard if it’s on record).

If you’re talking about albums, for example like the stuff Muse does well they were FX laiden when they were using real amps too. It’s artists choice and albums and songs in the real world are about production and using the right sound for the part, it’s not about pursuit of pure amp tone. That’s why the world gave guitarists FX in the first place.

I personally haven’t encountered problems with the upper strings on the Kemper since the original fix for aliasing about 5 years ago, or at least no problems that don’t also show up on my real amps (bad pickup adjustment, old strings, fret issues), though someone on the Kemper forum recently did experience a problem that was down to poorly carved carbon saddle : https://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/in...th-the-kemper/ In general for me the Kemper’s failings in terms of sounding accurately like a real amp tend to be nothing as easy to pin down.

It tends to be accurate to what it’s been given to profile having said that I found through practice that Profiling is itself not as simple as claimed, it is a bit of an art form. You do need to be quite loud when profiling and ideally not mojo up the signal too much with a colorful preamp (instead the idea is to get just the clean signal then send the Kemper signal through the preamp when it’s done to give you that added color). A highly “live” room or distant micing may also adversely affect things because it only captures the frequency response of the room not the reverberations (no time based effects), so if like me you like that distant mic’d sound you’ll have to make use of a room reverb just for the job after profiling, you can profile distant but you’ll have to add that verb back in digitally as otherwise it just won’t sound right. When it comes to verbs the onboard ones are great sounding but personally I‘m more comfortable with the UI off some of the ones in my DAW. Then after that background noise also has to be at a minimum, otherwise it’ll be accurate as heck during profiling doing A/B because it retains a loop of background sound at that time, as soon as you save though that loop is gone and along with it of course it’s contributing frequencies and suddenly the profile no longer sounds accurate... let’s just say I went through a whole learning process. Now I get accurate profiles, and yes it is easy and quick, knowing all of that. But like I said it wasn’t quite the “oh hey it’s just like recording a amp” that people always claim, it’s got its own workflow.

Anyhow back to the topic, the Kemper has some caveats, stuff like certain tones not profiling well because it can only do either power amp or pre amp distortion, not both together in in a single profile. The fact that it’s a purely dry sound with no room verb present bothers me often (see above about reverb). There’s also the lackluster distortion stomp effects range, which is to say it has distortion stomps, they are not terrible, but they’re no where near the level of the other onboard FX which are beautiful studio quality sounds.

Regardless of those limitations it’s a fantastic piece of studio gear, by far the best of the amp sims, continuing free updates that have added some really nice big features since it was launched (it’s by the Access Virus people) and really IMO the best fit for what you want to do, especially if quality and feel is the biggest concern.
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Old 10th December 2019
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
Yeah, the Kemper is the way to go for your situation. Just be aware that the sound is the recorded/control room sound, not the sound of the amp in the room. Without a real amp for you to profile yourself you will never know just how close it is, but trust me it is very close. When it comes to deluxe verbs of course the spring verb is a must and it has a very nice model of one in there, I used it on a quick man of mystery cover when Kemper first added it (excuse the poor playing but you get an idea of the verb) :



With regards the other comments here. I’m not sure what you guys who say it sounds terrible or is fx laden have been listening to but most Kemper tracks I’ve heard tend to be dry as heck and sound the same as their real amp counterparts, honestly it sounds like you’re just trotting out the old arguments against sims from the distant past in general without having heard any actual Kemper tracks? (Or even any modern sim tracks come to that, they’ve all come a long way and chances are you’re not even aware of what is or is not a sim that you’ve heard if it’s on record).

If you’re talking about albums, for example like the stuff Muse does well they were FX laiden when they were using real amps too. It’s artists choice and albums and songs in the real world are about production and using the right sound for the part, it’s not about pursuit of pure amp tone. That’s why the world gave guitarists FX in the first place.

I personally haven’t encountered problems with the upper strings on the Kemper since the original fix for aliasing about 5 years ago, or at least no problems that don’t also show up on my real amps (bad pickup adjustment, old strings, fret issues), though someone on the Kemper forum recently did experience a problem that was down to poorly carved carbon saddle : https://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/in...th-the-kemper/ In general for me the Kemper’s failings in terms of sounding accurately like a real amp tend to be nothing as easy to pin down.

It tends to be accurate to what it’s been given to profile having said that I found through practice that Profiling is itself not as simple as claimed, it is a bit of an art form. You do need to be quite loud when profiling and ideally not mojo up the signal too much with a colorful preamp (instead the idea is to get just the clean signal then send the Kemper signal through the preamp when it’s done to give you that added color). A highly “live” room or distant micing may also adversely affect things because it only captures the frequency response of the room not the reverberations (no time based effects), so if like me you like that distant mic’d sound you’ll have to make use of a room reverb just for the job after profiling, you can profile distant but you’ll have to add that verb back in digitally as otherwise it just won’t sound right. When it comes to verbs the onboard ones are great sounding but personally I‘m more comfortable with the UI off some of the ones in my DAW. Then after that background noise also has to be at a minimum, otherwise it’ll be accurate as heck during profiling doing A/B because it retains a loop of background sound at that time, as soon as you save though that loop is gone and along with it of course it’s contributing frequencies and suddenly the profile no longer sounds accurate... let’s just say I went through a whole learning process. Now I get accurate profiles, and yes it is easy and quick, knowing all of that. But like I said it wasn’t quite the “oh hey it’s just like recording a amp” that people always claim, it’s got its own workflow.

Anyhow back to the topic, the Kemper has some caveats, stuff like certain tones not profiling well because it can only do either power amp or pre amp distortion, not both together in in a single profile. The fact that it’s a purely dry sound with no room verb present bothers me often (see above about reverb). There’s also the lackluster distortion stomp effects range, which is to say it has distortion stomps, they are not terrible, but they’re no where near the level of the other onboard FX which are beautiful studio quality sounds.

Regardless of those limitations it’s a fantastic piece of studio gear, by far the best of the amp sims, continuing free updates that have added some really nice big features since it was launched (it’s by the Access Virus people) and really IMO the best fit for what you want to do, especially if quality and feel is the biggest concern.
Thank you very much for the detailed answer.
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Old 11th December 2019
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deng View Post
Season Greetings to All and Sundry.....

" A limited and little knowledge is a dangerous thing"

Father Christmas

Man, that is sooo hair metal! But we already knew that'd be the only thing the Kemper was good for.
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Old 11th December 2019
  #35
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Originally Posted by jerry123 View Post
I strongly recommend the Joyo American Sound pedal. $50
This. And the AC Tone ($40). Stick a reverb tank in front of it and it'll outperform the Kemper.
Old 11th December 2019
  #36
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Regarding the Kemper: It's a great piece of technology. I've had digital sims starting with the Roland GP-16 - amazing for its day in 1989 - and tube amps for 30 years. They both have advantages. But when I want the sound of a tube amp, and can play loud, I use a tube amp. When I need to record silently I find the AC Tone, a $40 pedal, is better than the Kemper.
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Old 11th December 2019
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tymish View Post
Seeing as you came off sounding like a high priest of the 'only real tube amps' cult what did you expect?
I did not attack anyone, just stated my opinion.

I call a truce with the Cult of Sim. No personal attacks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deng View Post
Season Greetings to All and Sundry.....

" A limited and little knowledge is a dangerous thing"

Father Christmas

This clip is a good example of the tones the Kemper produces.

Glossy. Polished. Flawless. Level. Homogeneous. Artificial, processed sounding.

All Kemper recordings I've heard share these qualities, regardless of genre, clean or distorted. I know you will argue the Kemper doesn't have its own tone, it can be made to sound like anything. Well, it has its own tone and character to my ears.

Does not sound like a blackface, or any real amp to me. It's nice, for that kinda glossy, one-dimensional tone. Reminds a bit of solid state amp maybe - but not quite that either. It sounds like what it is - the best amp sim.

If you disagree, if the Kemper is your be all and end all, more power to ya.

I can definitely see the Kemper working in some applications. It's good, ok? But it is not the same animal as a guitar amp. it is definitely a simulation. And to say there is nothing lost for whatever is gained is not accurate.

For a guitarist wanting authentic Fender blackface goodness... no. For that, I'd recommend getting a vintage blackface. Any day of the week. A blackface, or any good tube guitar amp, is incredibly versatile, can be made to sound great for any genre. To me, Kemper seems more limited by comparison due to its prevalent characteristics, even though it is touted as the exact opposite. I can see the knives of the Cult of Sim glimmering. I am sure it is easier to dial up a wide range of tones on a Kemper than it is to mess around with amps and pedals and all their settings (and cabinets, and mics). But there is a compromise in sound. To deny this is misleading. The question is - is this an acceptable compromise for the recording artists. For most, the answer is no, especially in the studio.

Not sure why bedroom level recording is much of a problem with a real amp. Some if not all of my amps, even the 100 watters, sound absolutely amazing clean at whisper levels, and I don't seem to recall it being a problem getting great overdrive/distortion tones from the right pedal at comfortable volumes. I'm away from home or studio now or I'd try it. It's been a while since I got distortion from anything but a very loud amp. But I expect great distorted tones at low volume with pretty much any amp turned down and a pedal.

Last edited by Snorktop; 11th December 2019 at 12:47 PM..
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Old 11th December 2019
  #38
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tymish's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post

Not sure why bedroom level recording is much of a problem with a real amp. Some if not all of my amps, even the 100 watters, sound absolutely amazing clean at whisper levels, and I don't seem to recall it being a problem getting great overdrive/distortion tones from the right pedal at comfortable volumes. I'm away from home or studio now or I'd try it. It's been a while since I got distortion from anything but a very loud amp. But I expect great distorted tones at low volume with pretty much any amp turned down and a pedal.
My '65 Vibrolux that I've been playing through for 30 years doesn't really do it's thing until cranked to about 4.5 - 5. Sure it's a decent clean tone before that but getting the rectifier sag and power tube grind is the special sauce.

Do I think a Kemper can 'replace' a full blown tube amp. Not quite. However for the price of a couple vintage or boutique amps (or even one) you have a veritable swiss army knife of a tool that's pretty close and you have 100s of amp tones. For most home recording hobbyists who may be short on space, have volume restrictions and limited budgets that 'not quite as good as a real amp' gets outweighed by 'close enough and super flexible'. Session players who might want to dial up a number of tomes for a tunes quickly might find it useful.

That's my take. I don't even have a sim.. but I may need one. My stepdaughter moved into our tiny house with 2 babies. So cranking my Vibrolux, Bogner, Komet etc will not be possible a lot of the time.
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Old 11th December 2019
  #39
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guavadude's Avatar
A lot of it depends on what you’re recording. If you’re working on the new Chris Stapleton album, BFDR all the way, preferably the one Dumble tweaked for Dave Cobb.
If you’re using virtual instruments and don’t want to have to record with headphones on all the time, the Kemper is better.

The Kemper is like a keyboard with 1,000 sounds. Is it as cool or more fun than a real B3 or a Steinway, no but it’s VERY useful.
I’ve made money using a Rockman, a Pod, a GT5, a crappy little Zoom thing, Logic’s Amps, Amplitube, GTR Rig, Scuffham, Bias, pedals and a DI, AND vintage Marshall, Fender and Vox amps. The only thing they had in common is that I got a useable sound out of them and the clients were happy.

If you don’t want to spend a bunch, just get Amplitube or other sim and some of the new Celestion IRs. A vintage amp is a much better investment and infinitely cooler but do you have mics, a good pre, a treated room and a tech to service it because that’s all part of using it. That said, you’ll pry my ‘68 SFSR from my cold dead hands because THAT’S the best amp on the planet and kicks a deluxe Reverb’s ass everyday!

Last edited by guavadude; 11th December 2019 at 11:03 PM..
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Old 11th December 2019
  #40
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tymish's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude View Post
That said, you’ll pry my ‘68 SFSR from my cold dead hands because THAT’S the best amp on the planet and kicks a deluxe Reverb’s ass everyday!
My '65 BF Vibrolux ain't goin nowhere anytime. Best portable all purpose club amp ever. Fits in the trunk of my convertible with 2 guitars and the pedalboard. Love a Super but not moving it, V-lux has almost the same power. Deluxe ain't got enough juice to hang with the bands I play in.
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Old 12th December 2019
  #41
I love my real amps, but honestly the Kemper can replace them. I use both on my recordings depending on whim. The only difference really is in the joy of an amp in the room vs the slightly less exciting experience of playing from a control room. On record really the difference is just the background noise and room reverb.

I don’t hear a universal gloss or one dimensional it’s to Kemper recordings, but I hear artists choices. It’s proved it’s bona fides more than enough times in more than enough AB tests to the best ears out there. I doubt anyone here could infallibly tell what parts are amp and which are sim even in among my fumbling tracks. What I do hear is close mic’d sounds. That may or may not represent gloss and shallowness to you, it’s the popular choice though for guitar on record for many years.
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Old 12th December 2019
  #42
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Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
I don’t hear a universal gloss or one dimensional it’s to Kemper recordings,
Me neither.

And fwiw, all the "this recording is 3D whereas the sim sounds 2D" statements are just pathetic. But obviously, they're really handy because you appear as a big gun, easily able to spot threedimensionality, while you will never have to prove anything because there's no measurable things when it comes to the 3D-ness of a sound.
"Your modeler sounds 2D" - end of discussion.
"Your modeler sounds same-ish" - end of discussion.
"Your modeler is missing rawness and sounds too polished" - end of discussion.

You can find evidence of these in all the recent modeler/plugin threads.
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Old 12th December 2019
  #43
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Me neither.

And fwiw, all the "this recording is 3D whereas the sim sounds 2D" statements are just pathetic. But obviously, they're really handy because you appear as a big gun, easily able to spot threedimensionality, while you will never have to prove anything because there's no measurable things when it comes to the 3D-ness of a sound.
"Your modeler sounds 2D" - end of discussion.
"Your modeler sounds same-ish" - end of discussion.
"Your modeler is missing rawness and sounds too polished" - end of discussion.

You can find evidence of these in all the recent modeler/plugin threads.
Lots of empty statements Sascha, lots of rubbish. The evidence is out there, even on YouTube (s**tty MP3) in abundance. You say you do use tube amps? And you don't hear the differences?
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Old 12th December 2019
  #44
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Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Lots of empty statements Sascha, lots of rubbish. The evidence is out there, even on YouTube (s**tty MP3) in abundance. You say you do use tube amps? And you don't hear the differences?
So far, the empty statments are coming from you.
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Old 12th December 2019
  #45
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
So far, the empty statments are coming from you.
Really? Like the b*lls**t comparisons you wanted to run?
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Old 12th December 2019
  #46
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Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Really? Like the b*lls**t comparisons you wanted to run?
No worries, they're coming your way. In the meantime, you could easily post some of the bedroom noodlings you wanted to come up with...
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Old 12th December 2019
  #47
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enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude View Post
Mark Knopler and Pat Metheny are using Kempers on tour and last time I checked they weren’t playing Hair Metal.
Just because YOU don’t know how to make one sound good doesn’t mean it can’t sound good.
LOL Pete Thorn uses simulation on tour as well and played a part in designing and extending Suhr IRs in his PT15 so he is no enemy of digital BUT his main reason is weight and portage as well as being a sideman needing convenience AND categorically states NOTHING compares with a real analog amp and cab "chomping at the bit". Look it up or do you need a link to get you started?
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Old 12th December 2019
  #48
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
No worries, they're coming your way. In the meantime, you could easily post some of the bedroom noodlings you wanted to come up with...
Be thankful i have a smidgen of time to do your re-amp (maybe have time). I will post noodling when i have time to indulge your curiosity at home.
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Old 12th December 2019
  #49
Touch and sensory feedback are the hallmark of a quality tube amp. I've never played nor heard a transistor simulator that comes close to that effect. Might be good for sawing a Les Paul in half, but a finesse player will be disappointed.

Simulators are the blow up dolls of the guitar world, close, but no cigar.
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Old 12th December 2019
  #50
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Tell that Mark Knopfler.
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Old 12th December 2019
  #51
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guavadude's Avatar
If you read my other posts you’ll see I prefer tube amps but that doesn’t stop me from using digital amps either.

For all you “tubes or die” guys, I’m curious what you’re recording on because I hope it’s tape and not ProTools. And I sure hope you’re only mastering on vinyl or better yet wax cylinders, but don’t leave them in your car trunk, damhik. Or plugins, you guys better not be using any f’ing plugins because everyone knows hardware is better. And don’t get me started on drum machines or virtual instruments. I wanna see an orchestra out in the room every time you need a little sweetening. Etc, etc.

There is ALWAYS something better than what you’re using but it’s the Indian not the arrow!
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Old 12th December 2019
  #52
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enorbet2's Avatar
I dunno, guavadude, I don't think a single poster here has stated they would never use any digital gear under any circumstances. All I see is a preference whenever possible to use tube gear and to never consider having nothing but digital or expecting any digital gear to replace a real tube amp and cab for every circumstance. Even what appears to be the finest iteration of digital simulation... err profiling, the Kemper, depends totally on having something real to profile.
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Old 12th December 2019
  #53
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I was innocent and nice when I first came here a week or two ago, but was immediately ambushed by Sim Cult thugs making a hobby of ridiculing those old analog curmudgeons who still use those obsolete thingies called amps because they fear technology, wanna look cool, and are still pissed about their lawn.

I am speaking on sims vs. amps in general, not trying to tell you your business or look down on you for using them. I hope you make plenty more money in music. And I hope you get tones from sims that make charred roadkill of my opinions.

Clearly I am from the guitar amp cult. I like digital synth, and digital recording well enough. That wasn't always the case - its improved massively, to the point of near transparency (not total). I don't feel guitar sim or digital processing has improved to nearly that level, and I doubt it ever can, simply due to the nature of the hardware and how it works. I could be wrong, but nothing I've ever heard makes me think so.

To me, amps are an intrinsic part of electric guitar. I am open minded, doesn't matter to me what is producing the sounds I want to hear. Nobody likes lugging around heavy cabs, or paying stupid money for vintage amps. All I care about is the sound. I don't care about the glowing colors - I've been burned enough, not sure I have fingerprints. Maybe I have brain damage from all the times I've been electrocuted by vintage gear and that is why I don't like Kempers.

Routinely, the sound of guitar amps produce tones so beautiful to me it literally brings tears to my eyes. Sims just don't do that. Like, I'm listening to Blake Mills on his old '55 tweed Twin, just this one simple riff, three overdriven chords, and I am sitting there weeping at how good it sounds. One close mic on it, no pedals. I listened to it over and over and over again. Then he solos, and the tone is the stuff of dreams. Timeless. And I hear it in my dreams. There is no way to simulate that. There is no "close" to that. It is what it is. It's fkin electric guitar.

It's not a close mic thing, its just the sound of the amp. They are all close miked. I'll put an extra mic the cabinet's frame to get bass and resonance. I have this one cab with some happy flaw - I don't fix the rattle & buzz, I put a mic on it. Miking the room adds some great stuff, but it's ancillary, doesn't change the sound of the amp.

Not sure what you mean by Kemper is the popular choice for guitar on record for many years. I've heard it on a handful of metal and hard rock albums, like the Kemper discography on their site. Heard it on some pop tracks. Heard Blink 182's last two albums. Heard a Motley Crue song with it. Heard a few more obscure blues/rock and alternative rock albums with it. Please excuse my ignorance, I don't get out of my own studio much. The thread dedicated to good Kemper recordings is strangely devoid of content.

I am not a big fan of using different amps for different tones, that is annoying, bulky and expensive. I've found the difference in clean and distorted tones between a Vox, blackface, Marshall, Mesa Boogie, Diezel, etc, can be gotten pretty closely from one great tube amp & cab, good EQ and a few pedals. I use a tweed (late 50s Bassmans into 4x12 vintage greenbacks), because I can make it sound like other amps, but other amps can't really sound like a tweed. I've worked many hours to get it sounding almost exactly like other amps, but better. Now I can just dial in. It is my Kemper, but with no tonal sacrifices. I use small, inexpensive tube amps for practice and experimentation, and though not nearly as intense (or loud), its still versatile, world class tone. That's why I recommend small amp for home recording - you can get some of the best tones on earth from it.

To me, the Kemper is kinda like the best digital distortion box ever made. It's much better and more realistic, but shares characteristics with any sim or digital box with canned guitar tones I've tried recently or in the past.

But hey, I could be dead wrong. It's rare, but it happens. Doesn't matter. I'd happily leap into a vat of fire for your right to rock on anything you choose to rock upon.

---------

Last words from a "high priest" of analog:

There is a dumbing down of music, and society in general, into mediocrity, homogeneity, conformity. This is a real, Orwellian conspiracy which has been going on for a long time, working through the media companies, to control society, and suppress the threat that music can be. It's not just about commercialism - its about control. Media in general and music in particular are the most powerful tools to influence or control what people think, to one end or the other. They want the soul and individuality ripped out of music. If Bruno Mars was actually saying something to people instead of pushing shallow materialism, blingin and ballin, he would not see the light of day.

In a sense, musicians are soldiers, holy warriors, on the front line in the battle for humanity's soul. The electric guitar is one of the most potent weapons ever created. They would love nothing more than to see its lost art vanish from the earth. To those who carry it on, I salute you.

.
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Old 12th December 2019
  #54
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guavadude's Avatar
yeah I don't get how guys buy a Kemper and then start selling off their amp collection. I won't do that, in fact I'll probably buy a few more amps but I find I use them less. Honestly for a lot of the commercial work I do, recall is a big part of it so I used plugin amp sims for a long time.

What gets me are when guys keep saying "the kemper is only good for metal or buzz saw sounds". That's just wrong and to keep saying it doesn't make it right. It's amazing on bass! I think one of the biggest changes in my recordings happened when I started using it on bass. But bassists haven't had an issue with transistors. Also I'm just not going to have a B15, an SVT, a Reddi and Aguilar DI laying around.

I've used the Kemper for jangly electric 12 string parts, a killer baritone with trem, a lapsteel pad with too much verb, an in your face Prince funk part, a fuzzed out lead, an 80's rock lead with wah, a metal body reso slide solo, twangy telecaster tones AND a heavy low Diezel amp thing....and that was just in the past few weeks!

So, back to the OP's question...yes, the Kemper is a lot better than the amp sims I've used and I've used a bunch of them. And I still think for recording in an apartment, a sim of some sort is the right choice. Don't take my amps.
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Old 12th December 2019
  #55
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vincentvangogo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post

....
Last words from a "high priest" of analog:

There is a dumbing down of music, and society in general, into mediocrity, homogeneity, conformity. This is a real, Orwellian conspiracy which has been going on for a long time, working through the media companies, to control society, and suppress the threat that music can be. It's not just about commercialism - its about control. Media in general and music in particular are the most powerful tools to influence or control what people think, to one end or the other. They want the soul and individuality ripped out of music. If Bruno Mars was actually saying something to people instead of pushing shallow materialism, blingin and ballin, he would not see the light of day.

In a sense, musicians are soldiers, holy warriors, on the front line in the battle for humanity's soul. The electric guitar is one of the most potent weapons ever created. They would love nothing more than to see its lost art vanish from the earth. To those who carry it on, I salute you.

.
Can I ask where this quote comes from? A friend and I have been discussing exactly the same thing recently.
Old 12th December 2019
  #56
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PdotDdot's Avatar
Back in the days when I was still playing out I put together a rig with the following:

Real Tube PreAmp into an H3000 using a patch that had the left channel a few cents sharp and delayed and the other channel a few cents flat - thus allowing me to play in stereo. That fed a reverb and an Intellifex multi effects processor - this went into a Mos Valve Power Amp - if memory it was 150 watts per channel and out to those closed cabinet Mesa Boogie 12" Theil cabinets. I put the rig together after reading an interview with Eliot Easton who described how he got his sound in the studio with the H3000. I think it was probably Guitar Player but heck if I can remember.

I had such a wonderful sound and the audeience and other musicians loved my rig.

I still have the PreAmp but I now use it in the studio for times when I want to get loud but keep the noise down.

The thing about that PreAmp was the clean channel could be dialed in to sound just like my vintage Deluxe Reverb and the direty channel could sound like a Marshall.

I of course generally prefer playing through an amp but my studio is in my home and I do not want my neighbors getting curious so in the summer when people are likely to have windows ajar I still go to the PreAmp and it gets really good tones and I never feel like the stuff recorded through it is suffering in anyway. And I bought this PreAmp back in what, the early 90's if memory serves.

I am not into amp sims nor am I into plugin pedals for guitars but I am also not against them as I simply have no experience to like or dislike them. My guess is that if you spend time with just about any pedal, sim or plugin you can probably find something that you'll be happy with.

Who knows, perhaps one of these days I'll be able to try the Kemperer or whatever it is called. For now, I go to my Amp or my PreAmp and I am a happy camper.

Interesting thread - interesting opinions and all. As I have stated, I have no experience so have no dog in the hunt.
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Old 13th December 2019
  #57
Lives for gear
 
guavadude's Avatar
I'm a huge Blake Mills fan and uh, no a Kemper is not going to sound like a '55 Tweed Twin in a great room surrounded by amazing mics through a vintage Neve.
Come on. My home studio isn't going to sound like Abbey Road no matter how many plugins I use that say Abbey Road on them either. I'm talking about getting useable tones from a Kemper, not freaking holy grail tonez. If SRV were alive, (RIP) he wouldn't be using a Kemper but he also wouldn't be recording his wall of amps in an apartment either!

As an old(er) dude with a vintage 100w SuperLead, I feel sorry for these kids that will probably never experience the blasting howitzer of a roaring Marshall through a 4x12. It takes some skill just to be able to man handle that thang much less stand in front of it. Other than a studio, I'm not sure where I can even get this old girl cooking anymore...certainly not on a gig.

Jeff Beck was in town awhile back and a friend of mine (bastard) got to go back stage and stand by Jeff's amps which were facing backwards behind the curtains. I asked him what it sounded like and he said "it sounded like the fountain of youth!"
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Old 13th December 2019
  #58
Lives for gear
 
Snorktop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
Can I ask where this quote comes from? A friend and I have been discussing exactly the same thing recently.
comes from me, I just wrote it for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PdotDdot View Post

Real Tube PreAmp into an H3000 using a patch that had the left channel a few cents sharp and delayed and the other channel a few cents flat - thus allowing me to play in stereo. That fed a reverb and an Intellifex multi effects processor - this went into a Mos Valve Power Amp - if memory it was 150 watts per channel and out to those closed cabinet Mesa Boogie 12" Theil cabinets.

The thing about that PreAmp was the clean channel could be dialed in to sound just like my vintage Deluxe Reverb and the direty channel could sound like a Marshall.
That is a nice rig, I had something similar back in the day. I love tube preamps. I use BK Butler's Tube Driver in my rig. That thing can be made to sound like just about any overdrive or fuzz, except more animate and biting because of the tube. Works amazingly with the amp's nature overdrive. There is a great tube preamp pedal made by Audio Kitchen called "The Big Trees" which is awesome. Some I've recorded with loved to use it direct for bass and guitar. I use an Alembic preamp on a Leslie with its own power amp sometimes (copying Gilmour) which sounds very blackface. If I had to go direct without a power amp or speakers, I'd look to use a tube preamp.

I've found vintage tubes really make a huge difference in sound in these units.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude View Post
I've used the Kemper for jangly electric 12 string parts, a killer baritone with trem, a lapsteel pad with too much verb, an in your face Prince funk part, a fuzzed out lead, an 80's rock lead with wah, a metal body reso slide solo, twangy telecaster tones AND a heavy low Diezel amp thing....and that was just in the past few weeks!
You sound like an impressive guitarist. Mine is just one guy's opinion from limited experience with Kemper and sims, but a lotta experience with amps. I know it can't get all the way there, but for how close it can get I leave in your able hands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude View Post
I'm talking about getting useable tones from a Kemper, not freaking holy grail tonez.
I've found you can get pretty damn close to holy grail tone with a humble rig, small amp, some pedals, decent mic and preamp/interface. Plenty of great inexpensive mic preamps, I know nothing of inexpensive interfaces but there must be some.

Last edited by Snorktop; 13th December 2019 at 12:42 AM..
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Old 13th December 2019
  #59
Lives for gear
 
guavadude's Avatar
@ Snorktop
Well with a tweed bassman and 4x12, you're definitely doing it the right way. A tweed is the one amp I'd really like to get. I've been auditioning tweed deluxes but that's not enough umph for me. There was a Victoria Bandmaster (?) 3x10" that kicked my ass but at the time I was looking for a Super Reverb so I had to pass. I still remember that one lighting me up, but it was pretty loud too!

I mentioned it before but the best tones I've heard out of the Kemper are by using pedals in front because digital distortion sounds like ass. Stick a real Klon or Tube Driver in front of the Kemper and it gets better. Would I rather be using your rig in a great room, hell yeah, all day everyday.

I'm going to fire up my old amp girls, burn some profiles which I've been meaning to do and record some comparisons. I've lived with the Kemper for quite awhile now but have been waiting for the editor to be released before I start selling and tweaking my own profiles. I will say that without a doubt the Kemper is the hardest piece of hardware I've ever used. It's like flying the space shuttle. Partly because it's so deep but also because it can be hard to get around on. They've come a LONG way in making it easier to use and the new editor is great.

Throw some links at me of your favorite tones. Might should be in a different thread. I'll see how close I can come and use that as a benchmark.
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Old 13th December 2019
  #60
I know it's wrong on every level, but have you tried the BassBreaker? I was shocked when I tried it, probably wouldn't last more than a few days though with modern cheap construction techniques but the one I tried was surprisingly good, punchier than I expected too.
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