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Amp simulators
Old 1 week ago
  #1411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
Sniff, I'm 73 years old. I have zero need to appear clever. Haven't you ever heard about old dogs and new tricks? I do resist that by trying to stay up on new technology which I do reasonably well due to my training and experience but basically what you see is what you get. I talk like this. I type totally off the cuff. I only edit 95% of the time for typos cuz I'm not a great typist. That's it, so I apologize for being unclear but it is as much on you as it is me since the most basic understanding of communication is in that formula.

If I say "A", and what you get is not exactly "A" but "A'" (read A prime) then the communication has been corrupted. Make sense now?
It makes no sense. Whatever...

You claim science as a platform, and to stand on the shoulders of giants...

So ...I find it amusing that in desperation to support your argument,you have found 1 quote, just 1 from a well known guitarist, that has ambiguous meaning, and tritely recycled that point.
Guitarists here have posted clips that dispel this, but in your sheer desperation to be right you didn't even listen, and certainly didn't "hear".

Chronology does not necessarily or automatically produce wisdom - when you're older you may even understand this
Old 1 week ago
  #1412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
I am genuinely interested and I'll set up a surgical test this weekend, certainly by Sunday.
Old 1 week ago
  #1413
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Jens L.'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
C'mon, tenderboy, that's just silly. Nobody thinks that. SS amps do a decent job of reproduction. If the harmonics are there in the signal they can do a decent job of reproducing those harmonics. They do not do a good job of creating those harmonics or envelope vectors in response to a guitar player.
So you don't think SS can't be a viable replacement for tubes in the context of guitar amps?
Old 1 week ago
  #1414
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Jens L.'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post

Um no, there has been aversion, frustration, dislike and outright hatred towards amps expressed here. The merits of amps are attacked as rubbish, so is the credibility of amp proponents.
Then I guess it won't be any difficult for you to come up with a couple of quotes from this thread that illustrate this "hatred"?
Old 1 week ago
  #1415
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Jens L.'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
Yeah, whatever. I was nice when I got here and didn't even mention sims until I was personally attacked multiple times.
So you didn't mention sims in a thread that explicitly and obviously is supposed about sims?
Old 1 week ago
  #1416
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Snorktop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragan View Post
So the thing about lying (or at least being completely incorrect) about what you've said on a forum is it's immediately able to be found out. Here are your first two posts. Not quoting anyone, not responding to anything, just coming into a thread you had no interest in contributing to in order to be smug and biting.
My first posts weren't on this thread, they were on the bedroom recording thread, if you want to "find out" the evolution, look at that one. My posts are totally non-confrontational recommendation of small tweed amps which don't even mention sims, and I was tolerant of about 6 or 7 attacks before I turned toxic.

You sim boys are full of crap. You are a nasty little amp-hating clique, and you probably deserve worse than I dish out. Nobody who loves amps would post the kinda crap you all do. I am restrained, I don't get personal with you, though you do all the time. Maybe now you will stay away from me if I speak on amps in another thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by owen_musician View Post
living embodiments of Rigs of Dad wannabe delusion.
Yeah yeah, go play another gig with Gilmour.
Old 1 week ago
  #1417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
I am restrained, I don't get personal with you
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
You sim boys are full of crap. You are a nasty little amp-hating clique, and you probably deserve worse than I dish out.
Your self-perception is a bit off.
Old 1 week ago
  #1418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkaitkai View Post
I have 3 days left on my Plini demo and I'm going to kindly demand that you post your settings — the breakup in that clip sounds fantastic.

The new Suhr SE100 from UAD is reeeeeeally good for clean tones. Not anywhere near a real Surh amp, IMO, but definitely great stuff as far as amp sims go. One of the few sims where I don't feel the need to EQ match.
I read your post and thought 'No problem - I have that saved as my last Cubase project'. But when I went to my laptop I found out the last project was in fact me trying to get the guitar sound for Way Out by The La' s . And I didn't save the breakup settings from earlier. Really sorry mate.

If it helps, I tend to boost the middle two or three sliders a bit on the EQ module as my pickups (SD Alpha Omega) are a a bit scooped and modern sounding for my tastes). Other than that no messing with the cab module (left as default) or FX modules (all off) - so a judicious bit of the amp knobs themselves should suffice.

Note to self: you have unlimited preset saving, idiot. Use it.
Old 1 week ago
  #1419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
I didn't see a lengthy description on #1062 but just now I listened to them all and I agree that the stops/bend did not freak out. Sounds pretty good.



That would be cool if you're up for it. With a more up front sound it would have a microscope effect, subtleties would be more apparent. Still, that it sat in the mix with what you already posted without any difficulties is plenty cool. Now I'm more curious than ever to hear Mayer do an example of what he is talking about. I have heard that on older Sims but it is apparent now that unless it is only under very specific circumstances he shouldn't be having issues with his digital rig. Thanks.



If you're talking about the recordings that Sascha claimed showed extreme dynamics, they didn't. If it's much after that I didn't hear them because I had to put him on "Ignore". So again if you're up for it, I'd like to hear that since that is something not only that I've experienced but Mayer did demonstrate.. I hope you can see from the above that I don't really care how it turns out. I'd rather have been mistaken and corrected than to stay wrong just to be obstinate..



I am genuinely interested and I'll set up a surgical test this weekend, certainly by Sunday.
"I'd rather have been mistaken and corrected than to stay wrong just to be obstinate." Words to live by, mate. Sadly for the human race it's not something most of us find easy to do.

When you refer to a more 'up front' sound does that mean 'less gain'? Just trying to be clear so I don't end up recording a bunch of stuff that isn't what's required.
Old 1 week ago
  #1420
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
My first posts weren't on this thread, they were on the bedroom recording thread, if you want to "find out" the evolution, look at that one. My posts are totally non-confrontational recommendation of small tweed amps which don't even mention sims, and I was tolerant of about 6 or 7 attacks before I turned toxic.
Ah, right. When you were teaming up with Mr. Eppstein (who is by now comparing the Fender Cyber Twin with the new Hook amp - demonstrating his experience yet again...).
Anyway, you haven't been attacked at all (I just looked), you have been asked for examples. Which you didn't come up with - you didn't even post a link to other people recording world class tones with small tube amps at bedroom level. Instead, when being called out for examples, you went all the way from snooty, to passive agressive, to plain agressive and so on.
Still, not a single example. Not of your own, not of someone else. Not even one.

Then there's gems such as these:

Quote:
I've played more guitar amps than you will in your next 5 lifetimes.
Sure. But apparently you never recorded any.

Quote:
Where did I say a modeler couldn't match them? I have almost no experience with modelers, so I couldn't say.
Right, you *never* said a modeler couldn't match a tube amp. In fact, that's pretty much all you're saying all throughout these threads.
And then: If you have almost no experience with modelers (who would've thought?), what are you doing in this very thread?

So, in a nutshell, you're making bold claims all throughout, without ever proving anything, and at the same time you're joining threads about topics that you have little (or shall we rather say: almost no) experience with, just to continue with your bold claims - which now are even firmly in off topic land to even start with. All that spiced up with insults, pretending whatever things and - well, sorry but that's just it - flat out lies.

Quote:
I am restrained, I don't get personal with you, though you do all the time.
Do you really want me to look up some more quotes? I would happily do that.

Quote:
Maybe now you will stay away from me if I speak on amps in another thread.
Why would we? There's folks not as closed minded as you, having experience with both real amps and modelers.
Old 1 week ago
  #1421
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telecode's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
Right, its not like there is a thread dedicated to mocking "toobz" and those who used them, including some departed rock legends. And its not like the sim cult started personally attacking me before I even mentioned sims or acted snooty, although I have not personally attacked anyone. Face it, some have made a hobby of attacking amp advocates here. It was goin on long before I got here, and will go on long after I'm gone. The sim guys are the instigators, all the way.



Um no, there has been aversion, frustration, dislike and outright hatred towards amps expressed here. The merits of amps are attacked as rubbish, so is the credibility of amp proponents.
No aversion or dislike towards real amps here except the physics and practicality of it.

AKA hauling big heavy amps up and down narrow stairs in dark dungy parts of city or into peoples basements. pretty much sums up all my musical experience. there has never been "a roadie" in my case. you are playing in someones basement setup studio or rehearsal spaces or recording studios that are located in really ****ty parts of town. Hence, things like entrances and access to the spaces are least important on the list.

given access to modern technology like laptops, audio interfaces and sims, you really really need to totally love those tube sounds to want to haul your heavy amp into those places.

for my personal, i am willing to take a slight him in the "authenticity" of the guitar tone if its going to get buried by synths, drm machs and vocals anyway.
Old 1 week ago
  #1422
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
I've come to the conclusion that it's useless to flame those who like Pods. Either you notice the obnoxious qualities or you don't.
So so annoying that you had to have your snobby little snipe. I wanted to read about amp sims. Another derailed thread totally down to you and your egos inability to keep your mouth shut. If you really cant stay on topic then get out.

Back to Amp Sims please.
Old 1 week ago
  #1423
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Freeland View Post
So so annoying that you had to have your snobby little snipe. I wanted to read about amp sims. Another derailed thread totally down to you and your egos inability to keep your mouth shut. If you really cant stay on topic then get out.

Back to Amp Sims please.
Yeah, sorry for being part of the derailment - but it's always that once the thread starts getting back to useful or informative levels, there's the analog amp crowd bombing everything into oblivion.
Old 1 week ago
  #1424
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Yeah, sorry for being part of the derailment - but it's always that once the thread starts getting back to useful or informative levels, there's the analog amp crowd bombing everything into oblivion.
Cheers. Tip for anybody wanting really mental guitar tones try using two amp sims one series into the other. Really nutty larger than life distortions. I even re-amp sims with real amps sometimes. Love my Orange amps but sims let me do stuff that is not possible or impractical.

Anybody know of any sims that let you dial in feedback?
Old 1 week ago
  #1425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Freeland View Post

Anybody know of any sims that let you dial in feedback?
Wouldn't happen to know of any. But then, apart from Digitechs FreqOut, I have never heard any convincing pedal based feedback, either - even the Boss offerings really aren't too great.

You could however try to do something on your own by sending a bus back into itself, maybe with some delay added. Whether that'd work well - no idea. Maybe I should actually give it a try.
Old 1 week ago
  #1426
Gear Addict
 

Just occurred to me that when quoting classic guitarists, the very people who created the classic tones we [or most of us] love and were inspired by, the name Hendrix comes up an awful lot...

Now, you could say this about a bunch of other people on The List [Gilmour comes to mind for example] but Jimi Hendrix was as far away from being a curator of time-honored classic sounds as it's possible to be. Quite the opposite - his whole deal was being different to what had come before him.
Yes he earned his spurson the chitlin circuit, but once given free rein spent his entire career as a solo artist striving for new sounds and new techniques that would break new sonic ground.
In fact I can't think of any other guitar legend so likely to be a massive enthusiast for whatever the cutting edge audio tech might be in whichever time he found himself.
He literally built or devised new recording techniques and hardware and pushed manufacturers to makes amps bigger or louder and pedals weirder than they'd ever been. He took the under-utilised wah-wah pedal and used it to create a brand new way of playing guitar. And why did he do all those things?

Because he wasn't satisfied that a ****ing 'tweed and a Les Paul are all you ever need'. Simply put, he wasn't 'a fan of classic tone'.

Now being a fan of classic tone is fine [did I mention I like the Beatles?] and being a blues purist, for example, can actually be an important way to preserve musical history....

But being a purist and/or willfully closing your mind to musical/technical innovation whilst claiming JIMI ****ING HENDRIX as a kindred spirit is simply not, as we say in England, on.
Old 1 week ago
  #1427
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Freeland View Post
Cheers. Tip for anybody wanting really mental guitar tones try using two amp sims one series into the other. Really nutty larger than life distortions. I even re-amp sims with real amps sometimes. Love my Orange amps but sims let me do stuff that is not possible or impractical.

Anybody know of any sims that let you dial in feedback?

Softube used to have a feedback emulation plugin. It was ****.


EDIT: Just checked. They still have it. 89 dollars for a ten year old plugin that didn't convince ten years ago. You have to admire their moxie.
Old 1 week ago
  #1428
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Snorktop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
If you have almost no experience with modelers
I explained in detail my experience with sims, and what I base my opinions on. I've tried Kempers in my studio, profiled of my amps and tweaked by pros. Not even in the ballpark of my real amps.

And I've listened to just about every published recording I could find, including the sims artists pages, even the top 40 pop, rock and country charts.

In all this arguing, none of you can point to a single recording that YOU think is great sim tone. It's a pathetic joke.

But please, go on with your hobby, don't let me interrupt.
Old 1 week ago
  #1429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
I explained in detail my experience with sims, and what I base my opinions on. I've tried Kempers in my studio, profiled of my amps and tweaked by pros. Not even in the ballpark of my real amps.
Well, quite obviously the Kemper can't be in a ballpark of something that doesn't exist to start with.
Old 1 week ago
  #1430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owen_musician View Post
Because he wasn't satisfied that a ****ing 'tweed and a Les Paul are all you ever need'. Simply put, he wasn't 'a fan of classic tone'.
Precisely. And many of the guitarists praised all over the place were similar.
I would take pretty much any bet that Hendrix would be all over electronic gadgets if he lived today. At least he wouldn't have stuck with the tone he already had.
Old 1 week ago
  #1431
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
I explained in detail my experience with sims, and what I base my opinions on. I've tried Kempers in my studio, profiled of my amps and tweaked by pros. Not even in the ballpark of my real amps.

And I've listened to just about every published recording I could find, including the sims artists pages, even the top 40 pop, rock and country charts.

In all this arguing, none of you can point to a single recording that YOU think is great sim tone. It's a pathetic joke.

But please, go on with your hobby, don't let me interrupt.
Nobody is asking your opinion as to if they are better than a real amp. The thread is about sims.
Old 1 week ago
  #1432
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Jens L.'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Freeland View Post
l.

Anybody know of any sims that let you dial in feedback?

It doesn't look like it is going to be a part of their Axiom, but BlueCat just announced a new Feedback plugin that looks quite promising on paper:

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Product...uct_AcouFiend/
Old 1 week ago
  #1433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens L. View Post
It doesn't look like it is going to be a part of their Axiom, but BlueCat just announced a new Feedback plugin that looks quite promising on paper:

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Product...uct_AcouFiend/
Cool. The Blue Cat stuff is quite remarkable anyway.
Old 1 week ago
  #1434
Deleted b6cd99c
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owen_musician View Post
Softube used to have a feedback emulation plugin. It was ****.


EDIT: Just checked. They still have it. 89 dollars for a ten year old plugin that didn't convince ten years ago. You have to admire their moxie.
bwahaha - still got that one ...
Old 1 week ago
  #1435
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enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens L. View Post
So you don't think SS can't be a viable replacement for tubes in the context of guitar amps?
I think they can for some players, some styles, and some songs... even some stages such as should be obvious with pedals in the chain or even for example as in Mesa's Graphic EQ. It is, after all a matter of degree. It's a tradeoff which for me means as much of the gain staging handled by tubes as is practical, especially in the power stage. For me everything after my FX Loop Return Level is and must be tubes for best performance.

On the larger scale, it's not like I can't play through a purely SS amp. I just don't like it as much so I haven't owned any for over a decade.
Old 1 week ago
  #1436
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens L. View Post
It doesn't look like it is going to be a part of their Axiom, but BlueCat just announced a new Feedback plugin that looks quite promising on paper:

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Product...uct_AcouFiend/
Ahhhh now we are talking! Cheers. Looks like it could be pretty good. And being digital and an emulation could probably do some crazy stuff thats impossible with a real amp. That said I would like to try it with an actual amp that is also feeding back. Yes I love feedback and distortion, and generally bonkers guitar sounds.

Best whacky electric guitar sound I ever got was a lead line played on an acoustic close miked with AKG414 then re-amped.

The thing with sims is that you do have to work at getting to the sweet spot.
I even had NI Guitar Rig sounding pretty good recently but a couple of tweaks here and there and sounded terrible.
Old 1 week ago
  #1437
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enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sniff View Post
It makes no sense. Whatever...

You claim science as a platform, and to stand on the shoulders of giants...

So ...I find it amusing that in desperation to support your argument,you have found 1 quote, just 1 from a well known guitarist, that has ambiguous meaning, and tritely recycled that point.
Guitarists here have posted clips that dispel this, but in your sheer desperation to be right you didn't even listen, and certainly didn't "hear".

Chronology does not necessarily or automatically produce wisdom - when you're older you may even understand this
Geez Sniff, you actually don't get it yet. It should be obvious to even the most casual and sporadic reader of my posts that I don't have anything invested in either side of this stupid contest. Many here on both sides act like their position on the subject is literally Tubes Vs/ Sims and that's absurd.

What gear you use (hopefully) doesn't define you as a musician let alone as a person. I don't care what you choose to play through any more than I care if your preference for PBJ is Grape Jelly over Strawberry Jam. I'm just saying if you haven't tried other flavors you might be pleasantly surprised. I have already been pleasantly surprised by some other flavors displayed here and motivated to try some ones new to me out for myself. I'm particularly interested in the Iridium for price, simplicity and the jfet input. I'm also wondering about AI and the possibility of deep profiling of individual gain stages.... but it's just gear.

For me the video of Hendrix Live at the Fillmore Machine Gun is so instinctive and expressive his gear disappears, is superfluous. I hear a human voice in a language nobody fully understands but everyone gets. The gear becomes transparent. It feels like Jimi is singing. It matters some that he actually did that with a Strat and Marshalls, but it matters more that HE, or any man, did that at all and I'd still be blown away if the very same sound came from a kazoo.

Until just last night I had not heard a clip that dispelled any of the alleged myths about Sims issues. I don't know how I missed Owen's post #1062 since I really do try to check every one out. I really do want to know the truth not just some asinine confirmation bias. I STILL haven't heard one that handles dynamic response like a tube amp does but I'm even open to that should it occur.

So if you could do the same for a minute you'd realize I am not trying to be clever, not in desperation and not trying to win some stupid webz argument to impress anyone, least of all, myself. My ego just isn't that fragile that I need that kind of shoring up and validation.

I find the hard polar edge of both sides of this ridiculous and Ragan's recent post fascinates me as I think he is sincere that it appears to him weighted against the analog side for sheer boneheaded blinders while I see it the opposite. To me some of you sims guys are so rigid you even mock some truly great time-honored players tones (and looks) all the while stating you love tube amp tones as well as some sort of concession to "prove" you're being objective and I'm not buying that given your... you specifically and Sascha particularly, stated attitudes. You guys don't budge an inch don't learn anything at all even about yourselves let alone other people and points of view. You guys seem INVESTED!... like your lives depend on it.

Your last sentence is a perfect example. I'm not claiming any wisdom from how many years I've been alive. I'm claiming some measure of wisdom from how I spent those years. I worked hard, sacrificed a lot, and earned respect from some world class players. I didn't make millions 'cuz I'm crap at mundane monetization, but I am smart and creative and I worked my ass off for love of Music and Electronics. The only thing my chronological age does now is give me time to write stuff here 'cuz I'm no longer viable on the road and I prolly look stupid playing loud Rock music. I'm not fat and boring though and haven't sported a mullet in ages
Old 1 week ago
  #1438
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enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by owen_musician View Post
"I'd rather have been mistaken and corrected than to stay wrong just to be obstinate." Words to live by, mate. Sadly for the human race it's not something most of us find easy to do.

When you refer to a more 'up front' sound does that mean 'less gain'? Just trying to be clear so I don't end up recording a bunch of stuff that isn't what's required.
In reverse order.....

No. I plan to play at a variety of gain levels with no backing tracks and not as a musical exercise like an extended riff, just simple repeatable intervals. I'd like to keep any subjective taste issues at bay and focus on pure response function.

I understand that it is hard for some because I see it all the time but I really don't understand it. How can it possibly be better, or even constructive of strong character, to knowingly continue to be wrong just to spite someone else? I mean I know the urge sometimes because I have problems with authority where it's difficult to curb my rebellious nature but that's only about orders, not about ideas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenny Bruce
What is, is the Truth
What should be is a dirty lie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissie Hynde
The middle of the road is trying to find me
I'm standing in the middle of life with my plans behind me
Well I got a smile for everyone I meet
As long as you don't try dragging my bay
Or dropping the bomb on my street
Old 1 week ago
  #1439
Deleted b6cd99c
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
.... To me some of you sims guys ....
TL;DR ....but as for the above, it needs saying for the umpteenth time - this a group of people that you have convinced yourself exist, but really don't.

Make sure you check under your bed at night though - just in case they are there with the Bogeyman
Old 1 week ago
  #1440
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Ragan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
My first posts weren't on this thread, they were on the bedroom recording thread, if you want to "find out" the evolution, look at that one. My posts are totally non-confrontational recommendation of small tweed amps which don't even mention sims, and I was tolerant of about 6 or 7 attacks before I turned toxic.

You sim boys are full of crap. You are a nasty little amp-hating clique, and you probably deserve worse than I dish out. Nobody who loves amps would post the kinda crap you all do. I am restrained, I don't get personal with you, though you do all the time. Maybe now you will stay away from me if I speak on amps in another thread.
Ok. Well I'm not gonna go dig around the rest of the internet to find the origin story of how you became so embittered and closed off about various amp techs before you came here. You quoted me, who wasn't participating in any of that other stuff, and you claimed you entered this conversation in a friendly way and with no bitchy comments. That's false.

As for the "you sim boys" nonsense, I'm sorry your mind works this way. You appear to see things only in categories. Categories which are pitted against each other. I've never been "nasty" or "amp-hating" or posted any "crap". I'm a reasonable dude who posts reasonable stuff and I have no problem learning new info or being wrong about something. But you see me as simply part of a category so when you read a post of mine there's a bunch of other stuff swirling around in your mind that has nothing to do with me or anything I've ever said. You have my sympathy. It would truly suck to go through the world thinking in these terms. Good luck out there.
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