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Workhorse guitar recommendations
Old 4 weeks ago
  #91
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
Hmm. THAT I can't really answer; there might be something written about that, I don't know. I'm just very careful about everything to do with it, like making sure the bridge sits at 90-degree angles on the pivot screws, and making DAMN SURE the witness points on the screws and the bridge plate are smooth and make maximum contact, making sure the fine-tuning assembly is tight, saddles are secure, that sort of thing. I also have a luthier here in Austin that's really good at that as well, which doesn't hurt...
Yeap. My setter-uper does all that, the trems function as they should. But the tone (or luck of one is still there.
I can say that no-Guess they use them more gently.one yet complained much about standard strat type trems (inc Callahams, Wudtone...). Guess they use them more gently?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Not killing any joy!!
Just sharing my sad experience
Sorry. I didn't mean to jump on you. My pickup preference is usually DiMarzio, basically since I found combinations that do what I want, and had no need to look further. I'm sure SD's do it for some people, and others will look to the more esoteric brands, like Lollar and those guys.

I've tried vibratos of a lot of different styles, and finally settled on Floyds, because I can get the combination of features and performance I want, even though they're a bit finicky to maintain. I use the Graphtech version, because I like the option of the Ghost piezo saddles. I can do acoustic or electric noises, even synth if I want (which I usually don't), and it's stable and sounds like I want it to.

I've done a LOT of experimenting over the years, and arrived at a combination of woods, pickups, and hardware that works for me. Same with amplification. I'm pretty sure my combination won't work for everyone, because everyone's playing style, idea of tone, and neck comfort is VERY different. I would guess that's why there's so many different versions of the 6-string monster out there...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #93
Well I'm guessing most have already named their own guitar.

I second the T type guitar.
Fit some noiseless pickups in it..maybe some locking tuners for faster string changes.
Contoured heel would be useful as would a satin feel neck.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #94
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Mikhael's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Yeap. My setter-uper does all that, the trems function as they should. But the tone (or luck of one is still there.
I can say that no-Guess they use them more gently.one yet complained much about standard strat type trems (inc Callahams, Wudtone...). Guess they use them more gently?
I would guess so. I only have a couple of songs that I do the maximum abuse on, and that's because the noise makes sense then. Otherwise I use it for chord vibrato and sliding up or down to/from a note.

The non-locking system I had the best luck with was/is a Wilkinson, the one with the long saddles that lock down. That one feels good, doesn't rattle, and returns to tune pretty well.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #95
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tymish's Avatar
 

Floyds stay in tune the best but yeah, my experience after playing about 40 years is A) They do suck some tone and sustain. B) I despise when a string breaks and the mind numbing process of getting everything back in tune (if it's a locking setup) Which is why I stopped using them live, locking Floyd guitars are pretty much done for the night when a string breaks (unless you have a guitar tech at the gig) . I find the modern Fender style with locking tuners to be a good middle ground of staying in tune and keeping more tone with ease and speed of string replacement. I have to use graphtec saddles though or I break too many strings. The stock Fender saddles are infamous for string breakage.

For the OP I agree with the idea of finding a good used US Fender. Might have to play a few to find the right one.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guictr View Post
Hi everyone,

I'm looking for a workhorse because I'm kind of paranoid and don't like to go out with my Music Man Cutlass RS.

So I'd like to know which guitar do you recommend for a $700-$1000 budget. I've been thinking about PRS, LTD or Schecter. I've never played on a PRS though. People use to say their necks are extremely comfortable but kind of chunky.


Cheers!
Try to find yourself some old US made Hamer guitts. Excellent value for money IMHO.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #97
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
Sorry. I didn't mean to jump on you. My pickup preference is usually DiMarzio, basically since I found combinations that do what I want, and had no need to look further. I'm sure SD's do it for some people, and others will look to the more esoteric brands, like Lollar and those guys.

I've tried vibratos of a lot of different styles, and finally settled on Floyds, because I can get the combination of features and performance I want, even though they're a bit finicky to maintain. I use the Graphtech version, because I like the option of the Ghost piezo saddles. I can do acoustic or electric noises, even synth if I want (which I usually don't), and it's stable and sounds like I want it to.

I've done a LOT of experimenting over the years, and arrived at a combination of woods, pickups, and hardware that works for me. Same with amplification. I'm pretty sure my combination won't work for everyone, because everyone's playing style, idea of tone, and neck comfort is VERY different. I would guess that's why there's so many different versions of the 6-string monster out there...
Hmm. All of mine are "old-school" Floyd's, probably 20 years old or so. Perhaps i should try one of the new models? Are they mechanically better? Have better trem-body contact? These are quite expensive, it looks like
I use all sorts of "boutique" pickups on different guitars. Its horses-for-courses. 1-2 still have SDs, my old yamaha sa's mostly have original pickups (I like them). Haven't bonded with Dimarzios yet, but never say never :-)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
I would guess so. I only have a couple of songs that I do the maximum abuse on, and that's because the noise makes sense then. Otherwise I use it for chord vibrato and sliding up or down to/from a note.

The non-locking system I had the best luck with was/is a Wilkinson, the one with the long saddles that lock down. That one feels good, doesn't rattle, and returns to tune pretty well.
Yes, wilkinson make good, affordable HW. I am partial to Callaham on strats but they are pricey.I also like stetsbar trems but they are VERY ugly :-).
Old 4 weeks ago
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleGroOve View Post
Try to find yourself some old US made Hamer guitts. Excellent value for money IMHO.
Yes, they were nice guitars
Old 4 weeks ago
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Hmm. All of mine are "old-school" Floyd's, probably 20 years old or so. Perhaps i should try one of the new models? Are they mechanically better? Have better trem-body contact? These are quite expensive, it looks like
I use all sorts of "boutique" pickups on different guitars. Its horses-for-courses. 1-2 still have SDs, my old yamaha sa's mostly have original pickups (I like them). Haven't bonded with Dimarzios yet, but never say never :-)
I don't think any of the new models are better mechanically than the originals, no. Some (like the Ibanez version)may have features that one might like better, but I wouldn't say they're mechanically superior.

Now, if yours are made in the Orient, from that era the materials are probably inferior. But if they're Floyd originals, then they should be sound.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Yes, wilkinson make good, affordable HW. I am partial to Callaham on strats but they are pricey.I also like stetsbar trems but they are VERY ugly :-).
I just don't like the Strat design. The position of the arm on the baseplate makes the Wilkinson feel smoother (it's closer to the pivot screws), and the locking saddles don't move.

Never tried a Stetsbar. They're expensive, and a bit weird (but then, I still have a WonderBar on one guitar).
Old 4 weeks ago
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
I don't think any of the new models are better mechanically than the originals, no. Some (like the Ibanez version)may have features that one might like better, but I wouldn't say they're mechanically superior.

Now, if yours are made in the Orient, from that era the materials are probably inferior. But if they're Floyd originals, then they should be sound.
Originals. One of the Ibanez's i have has a better version of lockable trem, still i think its detrimental to the guitar tone. Oh well, can't have everything :-)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #103
Gear Head
 

Among a sampling of Strats with 6-screw (decked), 2-point (decked) Mann Made (decked) and German OFR's with L-shaped brass blocks with Ebony shims so they're dive-only which I own, I couldn't say that the Floyd has any negative effect on the tone that any other tremolo-routed guitar doesn't share.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
I just don't like the Strat design. The position of the arm on the baseplate makes the Wilkinson feel smoother (it's closer to the pivot screws), and the locking saddles don't move.

Never tried a Stetsbar. They're expensive, and a bit weird (but then, I still have a WonderBar on one guitar).
Yes, they are weird. Also heavy for my liking. They do work reasonably well though.
Strat trems are not an ergonomic pinnacle. But I am very partial to the Calaham version. Feels like a piece of jewellery. Also wudtone one feels different but is very well made
Overall not a fan of most trems. Thats why i am more of a tele player :-). Good contact plate to wood
Old 4 weeks ago
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavesNotHere View Post
Among a sampling of Strats with 6-screw (decked), 2-point (decked) Mann Made (decked) and German OFR's with L-shaped brass blocks with Ebony shims so they're dive-only which I own, I couldn't say that the Floyd has any negative effect on the tone that any other tremolo-routed guitar doesn't share.
The 6-screw strat trem allows for better contact between the plate and the body. But they all are detrimental to the tone
Old 4 weeks ago
  #106
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enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavesNotHere View Post
Among a sampling of Strats with 6-screw (decked), 2-point (decked) Mann Made (decked) and German OFR's with L-shaped brass blocks with Ebony shims so they're dive-only which I own, I couldn't say that the Floyd has any negative effect on the tone that any other tremolo-routed guitar doesn't share.
It seems to me there are only two reasons anyone would conclude such a thing.

1) One has already been mentioned which is players who care nothing about a "woody" tone and who simply want extreme compression from high output pups and heavy gain and "clean" is merely a transition intro to where a guitar becomes something akin to a stringed synth controller.

2) The only other possibility I can imagine is a player who has never experienced the difference between even a Tune-A-Matic style bridge and a StopBar bridge/tailpiece.

I suppose #2 could also involve #1 where it has been experienced but has no utility to a compressed, distorted player, but to those who care the difference is astounding and gorgeous.

FWIW the one whammy guitar I own is a Shecter made early Floyd knockoff with low friction, non-locking nut and no fine-tune saddles. It floats and stays in tune and sounds quite good but it still sports less harmonic complexity and sustain than any similar stopbar guitar I own... it's just way better than the more complex, more moving parts "Trems" for someone who plays pretty clean very often and even when overdriven still sounds much like a "real guitar". It is a matter of degree, but it is a degree that matters to some and not to others.

Whatever twirls ur beanie, right?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
It seems to me there are only two reasons anyone would conclude such a thing.

1) One has already been mentioned which is players who care nothing about a "woody" tone and who simply want extreme compression from high output pups and heavy gain and "clean" is merely a transition intro to where a guitar becomes something akin to a stringed synth controller.

2) The only other possibility I can imagine is a player who has never experienced the difference between even a Tune-A-Matic style bridge and a StopBar bridge/tailpiece.

I suppose #2 could also involve #1 where it has been experienced but has no utility to a compressed, distorted player, but to those who care the difference is astounding and gorgeous.

Whatever twirls ur beanie, right?
Nope. Wrong on both counts.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario-C. View Post
If it's the german Floyd Rose trem once it's properly set up it stays in tune like the better than anything else out there, at least that's my experience but if you really hate standard floyds you can get one from FU Tone or a Sophia Trem which fits the Floyd Rose routing.
Since I've said it many times before I'm not going to go into the long list of reasons that Floyds suck, but they do, in multiple ways. Tone suck is actually one of the least of them.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #109
To get back to the topic of the thread - workhorse guitar.

Fender Telecaster.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #110
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
To get back to the topic of the thread - workhorse guitar.

Fender Telecaster.
My kind of guitar. But for a do everything1xHB (splittable) and 1xSC is probably more versatile. The 1xSC wouund like a P90
Old 4 weeks ago
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
To get back to the topic of the thread - workhorse guitar.

Fender Telecaster.
I thought I'd never see that topic again.

Right now I'm trying to decide between the Charvel and the Fender Tele.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #112
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptNasty View Post
So then why do we pot coils? Answer: To prevent the coils from vibrating with the body.
Sorry, that's wrong. We pot pickup coils so loose coil wire doesn't move in the magnetic field, which can cause severe microphonic feedback. It has nothing to do with the body. If you put a squealy pickup on a solid Lucite or aluminum guitar it's still gonna squeal.

Quote:
If youbwere correct you would get some sound from the coils with non magnetic strings.... but you don’t.
Nope. Totally unrelated.

Quote:
You my friend have bought into the myth. There is a fair amount of peer reviewed, scientific papers on this topic. Unfortunately you have to pay to access it. So the public at large is stuck with the myths and pseudo science being peddled on the public internet.
Uh, yeah, RIGHT. "Peer reviewed" by people who are peers of labcoat types, maybe. Peer reviewed by luthiers and pickup builders/designers? Not on your life.

Contrary to popular belief, the peer review process is not perfect - in fact it's often extremely biased and inaccurate, as successful (or unsuccessful) peer review all to often has as much or more to do with academic politics than anything else. My dad was a college professor. My uncle and cousin were research biochemists.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #113
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptNasty View Post
A trem is a mechanical device attached to a restorative force that is highly biased to accept and dissipate energy. So you have now claimed in this thread that a tremolo is a tone sucker and now say tone is all about the player. You contradict yourself sir. Contrarian of the day award goes to: Yuri Kogan.
Wrong again.

Tone is up to the player UNLESS there are physical factors in the instrument that interfere physically with achieving great tone.

That being said, a great player will stiil have better tone on low quality gear than a typical bozo would. That doesn't mean that tone sucking gear doesn't tone suck to a greater or lesser degree.

Jasha Heifetz would sound better than most on a beginner quality violin. He'd still sound like Heifetz. Would he sound like Heifetz on a Stradivarius? HELL NO!

Even the greatest player can't overcome the laws of physics, all he can do is perform IN SPITE of them.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #114
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Mikhael's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Since I've said it many times before I'm not going to go into the long list of reasons that Floyds suck, but they do, in multiple ways. Tone suck is actually one of the least of them.
In my usage over the years, I've found that Floyds are no worse than any other floating vibrato system, tonally.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
In my usage over the years, I've found that Floyds are no worse than any other floating vibrato system, tonally.
Every guitar I've played with a Floyd had less bottom end, attack and sustain. They are great especially if you're playing with a lot of distortion and compression. But for cleaner and rawer tones they suck 'something' out. Possible it was those particular guitars but it's been my experience since the first Floyd's came out in the 80s. Since it's impossible to properly A/B test I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guictr View Post
Right now I'm trying to decide between the Charvel and the Fender Tele.
Dunno, but Strats and Teles are the real workhorse guitars

I prefer Teles. Mexican made are totally ok. I'm buying a Fender Vintera Tele Modified next month.

k
Old 4 weeks ago
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soulata View Post
Dunno, but Strats and Teles are the real workhorse guitars

I prefer Teles. Mexican made are totally ok. I'm buying a Fender Vintera Tele Modified next month.

k
Strats are the swiss army knife for me. Especially with a switchable humbucker in the bridge position. Love me some teles too, but need the extra tone options if it's a one guitar show. Plus the Strat has that arm contour and after a while the tele bodys edge start to get annoying to my right arm.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tymish View Post
Strats are the swiss army knife for me. Especially with a switchable humbucker in the bridge position. Love me some teles too, but need the extra tone options if it's a one guitar show. Plus the Strat has that arm contour and after a while the tele bodys edge start to get annoying to my right arm.
Agreed. Strats have more tonal variety but Teles look better
Old 4 weeks ago
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
It seems to me there are only two reasons anyone would conclude such a thing.
I can't think of any reasons why anyone wouldn't conclude such a thing, who has had the opportunity to explore the possibilities.

Well, I can think of one or two, but they're not good reasons.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #120
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Hi, first time poster here. A few things that occurred to me:

If your workhorse guitar is playing out frequently, I might go with the aforementioned partscaster-style guitars, just for the sake of durability and ease-of-maintenance. Even though I do slightly favor Gibson designs over Fender (a personal preference), Teles and Strats are pretty much unbeatably solid in terms of form and function for the workaday player. Whereas, say, an ES-335 - another versatile guitar, my favorite design - might risk something like a headstock break if you even look at it funny on the road.

I think Telecasters are great, except for maybe the lack of a contour around the rib-cage area if you stand while you play. Strats are svelte and wonderful, but the volume control can get in the way (the whammy stick too, somewhat, if you are a vibrato user). "Getting in the way" also implies easy access for stuff like volume knob swells, though.

Fender headstocks allow easier string-replacement on the gig in dimly lit venues than a 3-per-side headstock does. You can lie one down flat on its back right onstage, in a pinch; not so with Gibson-style guitars...! These kinds of practicalities make the 'casters and their derivatives good as workhorse choices, I believe.
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