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Amp Head Into A Mixer
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
Gear Head
 
isaacmacias's Avatar
Amp Head Into A Mixer

Early message: Save your comments about how it "won't sound good" or the like. I'm not asking.

If you were to plug the amplifier speaker output of a head, like say a DSL20, and I'm not talking about the 'emulated out,' I really do mean one of the speaker outputs, directly into the input of an analog mixer, like say a MackieMIX12FX, would it work 'safely' or would something get instantly destroyed? If the latter, are there any measures that could be taken to prevent this?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
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RicTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaacmacias View Post
Early message: Save your comments about how it "won't sound good" or the like. I'm not asking.

If you were to plug the amplifier speaker output of a head, like say a DSL20, and I'm not talking about the 'emulated out,' I really do mean one of the speaker outputs, directly into the input of an analog mixer, like say a MackieMIX12FX, would it work 'safely' or would something get instantly destroyed? If the latter, are there any measures that could be taken to prevent this?
You have a lot of options, you may wish to do a search here for "load box."

I made this post six months ago to another member:

You might want to check out the Rivera Mini RockRec Loadbox w/built in cab simulator. It's a passive unit, you're locked/limited with six speaker voicings, although it does have a non EQ out which can be run into cab modeling software. It has a main balanced out and also two additional outs; a direct unbalanced out and the aforementioned unbalanced line out with no EQ that can be run into cab software. Here is an informative video with Paul Rivera Sr explaining the Rivera Mini-Rockrec. He talks about the features towards the end of the video.





I think the pricing is fair, I paid around $399 for mine but it's been great live as I go direct into the PA, but the RockRec also gives me an out for a 1x12 guitar cab as a monitor on stage.


[/QUOTE]

Edit to add: We've since removed the Quilter PA amp, Egnater and Rivera. I replaced the Egnater/Rivera with a much lighter Quilter Overdrive 200 and for mains went with a pair of JBL SRX835P active 3-Ways. The weight of our rack above was getting ridiculously heavy for a hip problem I was having. I'm getting a hip replacement soon and with a new hip thought about go back to the heavier Egnater/Rivera, but the Quilter Overdrive sounds fantastic out front and so there's no reason to pull it out of the rig.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
Gear Head
 

I know you said you don't want to hear what it will sound like but I can guarantee it will sound terrible... For about .5 seconds. Then at least that particular mixer input will likely stop working, if not the entire mixer. And probably your amp, too, if it's a tube amp. You have to have a proper load connected to the speaker output, which the input of a Mackie mixer is not.

You can prevent it by using a load box that turns speaker-level output into line-level output, and connecting that to your mixer.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
Lives for gear
 

would it work 'safely' or would something get instantly destroyed?

You'd most likely smoke whatever device you plugged into. Even a line level input is designed to receive a signal that is 1V or less. the speaker output on a guitar head can produce anywhere from 25 to 70V. You may not damage the amp head but you'll blow the front end out of any device you plug that speaker output into.

Look at it this way. A speaker is a huge electromagnet that takes allot of current to get the speaker to move. Its generates huge amounts of heat and moves allot of air. you plug that kind of power into a tiny op amp or transistor rated for running on 1V or less you're going to fry it, no if ands or butts. You don't even need to be playing notes, just the impedance imbalance and whatever ambient noise can do it.

You need to run an old style DI box that takes the voltage/current down to line level. It costs a couple of dollars to build your own. You can even mount the components in most amps and tap the signal right off the speaker jack.

The one I use for my older tube amps is incredibly simple. Its good for amps 50W or less. If you want to use it for a 100W head you'd likely need to double the resistor values.

There is one cap there to remove frequencies above 5K the same way as your speaker removes them by simply not reproducing them. Without the cap the sound quality is terrible with most any amp, guitar or bass.

The benefit of using a speaker jack of course is to capture any Power tube/transformer saturation a tube amp produces. If its a SS amp you'd be far better off using a normal line out off the preamp. Most SS power amps simply increase the gain and all saturation occurs in the preamp.
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Amp Head Into A Mixer-jacks-line-level.jpg  
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5
Gear Head
 
isaacmacias's Avatar
Thanks for the explanation and diagram, wrgkmc, I'll look into this
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6
Gear Head
 
isaacmacias's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicTone View Post
You have a lot of options, you may wish to do a search here for "load box."

I made this post six months ago to another member:

You might want to check out the Rivera Mini RockRec Loadbox w/built in cab simulator. It's a passive unit, you're locked/limited with six speaker voicings, although it does have a non EQ out which can be run into cab modeling software. It has a main balanced out and also two additional outs; a direct unbalanced out and the aforementioned unbalanced line out with no EQ that can be run into cab software. Here is an informative video with Paul Rivera Sr explaining the Rivera Mini-Rockrec. He talks about the features towards the end of the video.





I think the pricing is fair, I paid around $399 for mine but it's been great live as I go direct into the PA, but the RockRec also gives me an out for a 1x12 guitar cab as a monitor on stage.


Edit to add: We've since removed the Quilter PA amp, Egnater and Rivera. I replaced the Egnater/Rivera with a much lighter Quilter Overdrive 200 and for mains went with a pair of JBL SRX835P active 3-Ways. The weight of our rack above was getting ridiculously heavy for a hip problem I was having. I'm getting a hip replacement soon and with a new hip thought about go back to the heavier Egnater/Rivera, but the Quilter Overdrive sounds fantastic out front and so there's no reason to pull it out of the rig.[/QUOTE]
Looks like there really are lots of options, thanks
Old 4 weeks ago
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaacmacias View Post
Early message: Save your comments about how it "won't sound good" or the like. I'm not asking.

If you were to plug the amplifier speaker output of a head, like say a DSL20, and I'm not talking about the 'emulated out,' I really do mean one of the speaker outputs, directly into the input of an analog mixer, like say a MackieMIX12FX, would it work 'safely' or would something get instantly destroyed? If the latter, are there any measures that could be taken to prevent this?
You will probably burn out the input of the mixer and may possibly (probably) damage the amp. Don't do it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaacmacias View Post
....are there any measures that could be taken to prevent this?
Never turn the power on, ever : D
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9
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audioforce's Avatar
 

"Don't even look at it. It can't be touched." - Nigel Tufnel
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