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good amp for both guitar and bass recording
Old 14th August 2019
  #61
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
That's not what you said, and you're just trying to cover up.
Not at all. I know people that play instruments competently without any formal understanding of music theory. Sure, they play scales but they couldn't describe what they are because their knowledge is implicit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
I don't see any posters other than you talking the position that "playing scales will ruin your ears". Its absurd.
I didn't introduce the quote or make it; check the thread. If you think it's absurd that's your opinion; no-one is trying to take that from you. Other people understand what she is saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Because I done it both ways and I'm an accomplished musician.
For sure. I never said you weren't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Seems like you're here to argue, to talk off-topic smack, and to be a contrarian.
All my posts have been on topic except for my interactions with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
'Side-chaining' in the arrangement is a valid technique.
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
You can walk quarters, eighths, sixteenths, whatever.
Yes, and you can walk inbetween the raindrops too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Don't try to insult me with b.s. I understand way more than you think. You are twisting your off-topic. You don't have to "avoid the bass drum" to be heard, and you don't have to "compete" with the bass drum to play with it in the pocket.
No but you can be heard more clearly if you do - especially when playing bass through a guitar amp.
Old 14th August 2019
  #62
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vincentvangogo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
...
Here a tip. Rather than "avoid the bass drum", try to "complement the bass drum".
'You've got nice skin.' I'll get me coat.
Old 14th August 2019
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
...Here a tip. Rather than "avoid the bass drum", try to "complement the bass drum".


regards,


audioforce
Thank you but I'll stick with the original advice from the producer who sold millions of records.
Old 14th August 2019
  #64
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Should that be a different thread? Its kinda off topic?
Old 14th August 2019
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Should that be a different thread? Its kinda off topic?
This is a typical problem on GS.
It isn’t enough to hear two conflicting points of view and maybe a follow-up from each. We have to endure point-by-point dissection of the reply, and of the reply to the reply (plus some snark), and on and on.
You are correct. This exchange is off topic and has devolved to a personal feud having little to do with the thread.
They should adjourn to a neutral planet for a duel or dance-off.
Old 14th August 2019
  #66
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audioforce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Stone View Post
Not at all. I know people that play instruments competently without any formal understanding of music theory. Sure, they play scales but they couldn't describe what they are because their knowledge is implicit.
Their "knowledge" is "implicit"? That really makes no sense. In any event, what you are saying is now completely tangential to the argument. Ms. Kaye said that Playing scales will ruin you ears, and that is ridiculous. That's what we were talking about, not whether or not some people can make decent music without a lot of knowledge of music theory.

FWIW, this is an ancient debate on these forums, with a small group always trying to make an argument that somehow knowledge of and / or proficiency in music theory [scales, harmonic concepts, and what-have-you] is an impediment to good musicianship. That argument always loses. It is true that there are many creative and innovative musicians who do not have a lot of understanding of music theory, but that does not mean that they would be less creative or innovative if they had more knowledge. The converse is true. These people are simply talented people and they make the most of what they know. Unfortunately, some of them are afraid or unable to learn more, and that limits their scope, even if only to a small degree. As long as they stay within their limits, they may be amazing, but ask them to play Wayne Shorter tunes and they will flounder. There is only so much ground one can cover without a true understanding of the harmonic system.

Scales. If you want real advanced technique, you will simply have to learn and practice scales. Major scales, minor scales, all the modes, synthetic scales, all that. There is no way around it, because that is how music is constructed. Its a harmonic system. Scales are chords that fell on their sides, and chords are scales that are stacked up in intervallic relationships.

Playing scales will not "ruin your ears".

Quote:
I didn't introduce the quote or make it; check the thread. If you think it's absurd that's your opinion; no-one is trying to take that from you. Other people understand what she is saying.
You agreed with Ms. Kaye's oddball statement. There is really only one legitimate way to interpret her statement. And the statement is false. Trying to say that bassists should try to think "chordally", does not require a statement to the effect that "playing scales will ruin your ears". Its beyond hyperbolic.

Quote:
For sure. I never said you weren't.
But you are arguing that I "don't understand" when that is obviously not true.

Quote:
All my posts have been on topic except for my interactions with you.
That's not accurate, and to the extent that it is partially so, that's on you, man. You took this thread way off topic, more than once, and then with a bunch of provocative rhetoric about how you think that playing scales will diminish someone's creativity or ability to be innovative, more or less requiring responsive posts.

And you stated that the purpose of the thread was to discuss music, and only to a lesser degree to discuss the topic of the thread ["the OP's amp"].

Quote:
'Side-chaining' in the arrangement is a valid technique.
Nah. The term "side-chaining in the arrangement" is some sh*t you made up to try to continue a failed argument. Side chaining is an engineering term, not a compositional term.

Quote:
Yes, and you can walk inbetween the raindrops too.
Right.

Quote:
No but you can be heard more clearly if you do - especially when playing bass through a guitar amp.
Playing bass through a guitar amp does not require, or even benefit from, "avoiding the bass drum", imo. If anything, playing bass through a guitar amp could give you better separation between bass and kick playing together.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Stone View Post
Thank you but I'll stick with the original advice from the producer who sold millions of records.
Ok, your loss. “Avoid the bass drum”, then.

: )


Best,

audioforce
Old 14th August 2019
  #67
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
This is a typical problem on GS.
It isn’t enough to hear two conflicting points of view and maybe a follow-up from each. We have to endure point-by-point dissection of the reply, and of the reply to the reply (plus some snark), and on and on.
You are correct. This exchange is off topic and has devolved to a personal feud having little to do with the thread.
They should adjourn to a neutral planet for a duel or dance-off.
Dance-off sounds like a fun idea We should organise a broadcast
Old 14th August 2019
  #68
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audioforce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Dance-off sounds like a fun idea We should organise a broadcast
Ha ha. Good one. No Macarena.

For the record, I’m not the one that took this thread off topic. I’m just trying to cut through the BS at this point. Somebody should read some of the stuff Carole Kaye has written and argued about, including in her ongoing war with Hal Blaine and company. Craziness.

Regarding scales [not my words, FWIW]:

http://www.learntoplaymusic.com/blog...guitar-scales/

short excerpt [again, not my words, FWIW]


"PRACTICING SCALES
A lot, if not all technical problems can be solved by practicing scales,
slowly and deliberately. It will strengthen your fretting hand AND build coordination between both hands. This will allow you to move between chords or scale patterns more easily. Practicing scales can be thought of as one of the ways to visually and physically organize and get to know your fretboard well.
This in turn will greatly enhance your ability to improvise and to concentrate on other aspects of your playing or performance e.g., tone, dynamics, phrasing, rhythm and expression because you will have the scales and patterns under your fingers. It will free you up to focus on creative things instead of guessing if the next note will sound good or not. It will enhance your creativity."


Don't do drugs, stay in school. : )

Best,

audioforce
Old 14th August 2019
  #69
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Gearslutz; a place for the curious, a paradise for the pedantic


So...about an amp. Has anyone tried any of the wangs mini amp heads with a bass (vt1 and mini 5)?
Old 14th August 2019
  #70
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Ha ha. Good one. No Macarena.

For the record, I’m not the one that took this thread off topic. I’m just trying to cut through the BS at this point. Somebody should read some of the stuff Carole Kaye has written and argued about, including in her ongoing war with Hal Blaine and company. Craziness.

Best,

audioforce
What do you mean not Macarena??!! Its the ultimate dance-off song. Or some break-dance?

Carole is not the only one. Doubt she really cared how she was recorded. It was a job - just plug me in and let me do my thing kinda business.
BTW if you read guitar mag interviews in the '70s, '80s... the amount of disinformation by guitar players trying to create mystique and intrigue re their sound resulting from an un-labelled "special box built by a mysterious electronic tech" was really entertaining to read. Its like where's the popcorn - another collector's rush on empty pedal boxes is coming on
Old 14th August 2019
  #71
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han View Post
Gearslutz; a place for the curious, a paradise for the pedantic


So...about an amp. Has anyone tried any of the wangs mini amp heads with a bass (vt1 and mini 5)?
I use a Wang 1W little amp into a nice alnico box at home all the time. I like the sound, but it did not solve the problem of my family complaining of that "super-loud" noise interfering with their game-playing or social video discussions. I think its very unfair
I actually tried it with a 1962 pbass of mine after swapping a busted pot. Sounded nice, in a vintage kinda way
Old 14th August 2019
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
I use a Wang 1W little amp into a nice alnico box at home all the time. I like the sound, but it did not solve the problem of my family complaining of that "super-loud" noise interfering with their game-playing or social video discussions. I think its very unfair
I actually tried it with a 1962 pbass of mine after swapping a busted pot. Sounded nice, in a vintage kinda way
Your comment about the sound with a bass is very intriguing and what I’d be interested in. The Wang VT1 is also really affordable.

I am in the same boat with my family and I’m trying really hard to find a solution like yourself. I’m now looking at amps and a silent solution. I’m very interested in fryette. Their products seem to sound a little more authentic than two notes.

Check out power load for amps as a silent option. There is also the fryette gp/di for an all in one option, but I’m not sure it suits my style. Check out the Vintage King demos of each.

For a pure practice option, I’m also considering pedals that are like preamps/amp in a box into the new cab m, which is cheaper, but not as authentic as what I’ve heard from the fryette stuff

Good luck
Old 14th August 2019
  #73
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han View Post
Your comment about the sound with a bass is very intriguing and what I’d be interested in. The Wang VT1 is also really affordable.

I am in the same boat with my family and I’m trying really hard to find a solution like yourself. I’m now looking at amps and a silent solution. I’m very interested in fryette. Their products seem to sound a little more authentic than two notes.

Check out power load for amps as a silent option. There is also the fryette gp/di for an all in one option, but I’m not sure it suits my style. Check out the Vintage King demos of each.

For a pure practice option, I’m also considering pedals that are like preamps/amp in a box into the new cab m, which is cheaper, but not as authentic as what I’ve heard from the fryette stuff

Good luck
For max flexibility a solution like a pre-. small PA (mooer 20W) ->load/speaker sim will give you a very flexible setup. If you are happy with a SS PA then an AMT offering (3W SS) is very cheap. This gives you ultimate flexibility and ability to grow by getting new pres. An AMT SS-11 A or B give you 4 channels, is full tube (B gives more modern gain) and affordable (https://amtelectronics.com/new/products/). They also have tube based small size pres which are cheap and you can get a dozen of different ones.. There are other brands which make fantastic, reasonably affordable pres.
Mooer Tube Engine 20 Watt Class A/B Tube Power Amp is a decent tube power amp you can even use live.
Integrated amps like Wang are of course much less versatile. But I have alot of pedals so can get tonal versatility at home that way (without an effects loop unfortunately)
Old 14th August 2019
  #74
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Ha ha. Good one. No Macarena.

For the record, I’m not the one that took this thread off topic. I’m just trying to cut through the BS at this point. Somebody should read some of the stuff Carole Kaye has written and argued about, including in her ongoing war with Hal Blaine and company. Craziness.

Best,

audioforce
She says some absurd stuff and makes some claims that are in my opinion utterly false.

As a teacher I love her approach. I think it gets a bit misinterpreted but in a nutshell it's all about:

Know your chords, subs, cycles etc
Have great time
Be able to read

She identified a problem that is a bit unique to guitar players in that they know scales, have licks and can play tunes but they have weak chordal knowledge and weak timing (groove.)

A simple crawl, walk then run kind of philosophy.
Old 14th August 2019
  #75
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audioforce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwhistle View Post
She says some absurd stuff and makes some claims that are in my opinion utterly false.

As a teacher I love her approach. I think it gets a bit misinterpreted but in a nutshell it's all about:

Know your chords, subs, cycles etc
Have great time
Be able to read

She identified a problem that is a bit unique to guitar players in that they know scales, have licks and can play tunes but they have weak chordal knowledge and weak timing (groove.)

A simple crawl, walk then run kind of philosophy.
Hmm, I agree that weak time feel is kind of common, but I don't know that I've seen so many players that really know scales in depth that have "weak" chordal knowledge. Maybe I just didn't notice because the music they were playing didn't call for it. But yeah, it takes all that, for all-around type session playing for sure.


Best,

audioforce
Old 14th August 2019
  #76
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audioforce's Avatar
 

@ boomer81

I think you have a whole bunch of options and suggestions to check into in this thread. And there will probably be more to come. Hopefully something will work for you. Let us know how its going.


Best,


audioforce
Old 14th August 2019
  #77
Gear Nut
 

+1 on Fender Bassman, Ampeg V4/4VB, Ampeg B25 (with pedals on guitar),

I'll add:
- Someone on the thread already mentioned Music Man. They've got a lot of great sounding guitar amps that also work for bass - HD 150 is probably the best one for this. You could even use this one live for bass with the right cabinet.

- Fender Prosonic. Great clean tones for guitar. Great with pedals. Has enough clean headroom for bass. Great as a second or third path along with a DI and a compressed DI for Bass when recording. Probably not something you'd play live for bass.

Also, I've never tried one, but I bet a Roland JaZZ Chorus 120 would sound great on bass. Can't believe I've never tried it.
Old 14th August 2019
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boomer81 View Post
for stoner doom stuff im looking for one amp that I can record both bass and guitar will be using fuzz pedals. I know ampeg is probably the way to go. but which one. also solid state orange bass amp crush I think how would they do.

$500 budget so that limits stuff I have a mxr blue box and a dod carcosa fuzz

there is a ampeg b25b head and b15 cab for that price locally. how would that work

any other suggestions
For recording or performing? I assumed recording since this is GS, but could you let us know?
Old 14th August 2019
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han View Post
For recording or performing? I assumed recording since this is GS, but could you let us know?
He says “that I can RECORD both bass and guitar”.

Best,

audioforce
Old 14th August 2019
  #80
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncbilly View Post
+1 on Fender Bassman, Ampeg V4/4VB, Ampeg B25 (with pedals on guitar),

I'll add:
- Someone on the thread already mentioned Music Man. They've got a lot of great sounding guitar amps that also work for bass - HD 150 is probably the best one for this. You could even use this one live for bass with the right cabinet.

- Fender Prosonic. Great clean tones for guitar. Great with pedals. Has enough clean headroom for bass. Great as a second or third path along with a DI and a compressed DI for Bass when recording. Probably not something you'd play live for bass.

Also, I've never tried one, but I bet a Roland JaZZ Chorus 120 would sound great on bass. Can't believe I've never tried it.
I find the JC120 just ok on bass. I love them as multipurpose amps for live but they're kind of trash for recording, too much hiss and pretty sterile.
Old 15th August 2019
  #81
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audioforce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwhistle View Post
I find the JC120 just ok on bass. I love them as multipurpose amps for live but they're kind of trash for recording, too much hiss and pretty sterile.
Those are cool amps, but yeah, Why do they hiss so much? Do the newer ones hiss like that too?


Best,

audioforce
Old 15th August 2019
  #82
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Those are cool amps, but yeah, Why do they hiss so much? Do the newer ones hiss like that too?


Best,

audioforce
It's just inherent to the design. The new ones hiss as well, maybe not so bad as the old ones but it's still there.
Old 15th August 2019
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwhistle View Post
It's just inherent to the design. The new ones hiss as well, maybe not so bad as the old ones but it's still there.
Not to go OT, but does the hiss ramp up when you turn the amp up? Or can you just out-shout it? I never owned one, just played through them at lower volume a few times. The two-amp stereo chorus sound is nailed on those things.


Best,

auidioforce
Old 15th August 2019
  #84
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Not to go OT, but does the hiss ramp up when you turn the amp up? Or can you just out-shout it? I never owned one, just played through them at lower volume a few times. The two-amp stereo chorus sound is nailed on those things.


Best,

auidioforce
It doesn't get louder as you crank it so yeah you just out-shout it.
Old 15th August 2019
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwhistle View Post
It doesn't get louder as you crank it so yeah you just out-shout it.
Well, then its obviously not a real problem, right! : )


Best,


audioforce
Old 15th August 2019
  #86
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Last time I had to use a Jazz Chorus, I was constantly shouting at it.
Old 15th August 2019
  #87
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With American amps, you can just swear loudly at them. The English amps perform better when you shout something clever.
Old 15th August 2019
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
With American amps, you can just swear loudly at them. The English amps perform better when you shout something clever.
A passive-aggressive subtle put-down is even more effective. "A Jazz Chorus you say? Hmm, my least favourite musical style, followed by my least favourite effects pedal. I can't imagine ever wanting to leave that out in a skip. I wish you a most splendid day, my liege."
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