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Strings - What do you use when and why?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #121
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audioforce's Avatar
 

This one goes to 11.



cheers,


audioforce
Old 2 weeks ago
  #122
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
Think of it this way:

What we are talking about here is the difference between potential power and applied pressure, so:
Voltage = Electrical Pressure

Amperage = Electrical Flow
In other words, the power (measured in volts) is there all along (whether we use it or not):

But the current (measured in amps) is drawn from the source until that source can no longer provide it (so the source becomes overloaded).

When this happens, it will cause an amplifier to "clip" a signal, or a power supply to burn up (or whatever other bad stuff might happen as a result of overload).
.
You are incorrect. Power is measured in WATTS, not volts.

Voltage is amplitude (AC) or electrical "pressure" (DC). It is a measure of the amount of energy behind the movement of the electrons. The amount of voltage in a circuit will always be the amount of voltage provided by the source. Under normal conditions it is independent of the load or the amount of current, unless the impedance of the load is so low that it loads down the source, which is an unnatural operating condition that often results in damage to the source in short order.

Current, measured in amps, is drawn from the source according to the impedance of the load. The source will not provide more current than the source draws. It is a measure of how many electrons are being moved through the conductor. If a load demands more current from the source than is available (the impedance of the load is too low) the source simply won't supply the requirements of the load and the load won't be able to perform its task; it will be starved for power. The source will also likely be damaged. This condition is commonly known as a short circuit.

POWER (measured in watts) is the product of the voltage provided by the source multiplied by the amount of current drawn by the load (according to its impedance). Regardless of the potential power capacity of the source it will not provide more power than the impedance of the load can draw. (This is independent of the power capacity of the load, of course, which is why speakers sometimes blow up. Think of a guy blowing chunks after losing a hot dog eating contest.)

If the impedance of the load is quite high compared to the impedance of the source very little current will flow, although voltage transfer will be maximized.

Quote:
But the current (measured in amps) is drawn from the source until that source can no longer provide it (so the source becomes overloaded).

When this happens, it will cause an amplifier to "clip" a signal, or a power supply to burn up (or whatever other bad stuff might happen as a result of overload).
No.

Clipping occurs when the amplitude of the signal exceeds the voltage available from the power supply. It has nothing to do with available current.

Last edited by John Eppstein; 2 weeks ago at 12:28 AM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #123
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RicTone's Avatar
 

When I read a John Eppstein post I'm reminded of a Peanuts cartoon from the early '60s where all the Peanuts characters are lying around a pitchers mound, looking up in the sky and commenting on what they see in the clouds. Everyone's comments about what they saw was brilliant, and if I remember correctly Linus said something in the clouds reminded him of the Sistine Chapel ( I could have that wrong). It was Charlie Brown's turn and he said something like, "I was going to say I saw a doggy and a pony but I changed my mind."

I feel like Charlie Brown when posting after a John Eppstein post.

Taking it back to strings, here's the deal. I've recently discovered "Rogue" Strings.

Super Slinky 9 singles on Amazon are up to $5.99 for (6) strings.
Rogue 9 singles are (12) strings for $2.19

EB Slinky = $.998 per string (nearly $1.00 per string)
Rogue = $.183 per string (twelve strings for $2.19) The high E/B/G Rogue strings are the same price.

I bought $50 worth of Rogue strings on a hunch.

At this point Rogues are holding up as good as the EB Slinkys, which isn't really saying much because for me recently the average time for a set of strings on a guitar is one week.

I haven't A/B recorded Super Slinkys vs Rogue, but my general impression is Rogue are brighter than Slinkys.

Anyone else tried Rogue? They do seem brighter, but I've been changing out pickups and amps recently and can't be sure.

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/acce...rings&index=10
Old 2 weeks ago
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicTone View Post
When I read a John Eppstein post I'm reminded of a Peanuts cartoon from the early '60s where all the Peanuts characters are lying around a pitchers mound, looking up in the sky and commenting on what they see in the clouds. Everyone's comments about what they saw was brilliant, and if I remember correctly Linus said something in the clouds reminded him of the Sistine Chapel ( I could have that wrong). It was Charlie Brown's turn and he said something like, "I was going to say I saw a doggy and a pony but I changed my mind."

I feel like Charlie Brown when posting after a John Eppstein post.

Taking it back to strings, here's the deal. I've recently discovered "Rogue" Strings.

Super Slinky 9 singles on Amazon are up to $5.99 for (6) strings.
Rogue 9 singles are (12) strings for $2.19

EB Slinky = $.998 per string (nearly $1.00 per string)
Rogue = $.183 per string (twelve strings for $2.19) The high E/B/G Rogue strings are the same price.

I bought $50 worth of Rogue strings on a hunch.

At this point Rogues are holding up as good as the EB Slinkys, which isn't really saying much because for me recently the average time for a set of strings on a guitar is one week.

I haven't A/B recorded Super Slinkys vs Rogue, but my general impression is Rogue are brighter than Slinkys.

Anyone else tried Rogue? They do seem brighter, but I've been changing out pickups and amps recently and can't be sure.

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/acce...rings&index=10
That seems very inexpensive. And they sell a dreanought for $67. Does the brand have anything to do with Rogue Music in NYC?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
That seems very inexpensive. And they sell a dreanought for $67. Does the brand have anything to do with Rogue Music in NYC?
It's so difficult to do Google searches! I'm lazy, as you evidently are as well @ audioforce . After an extensive and exhaustive Google search of 15 seconds I've determined that Rogue (not associated with NYC) probably has roots to Rogue guitars, "manufactured by Sunbo, in South Korea. It is the “house brand” for Musician’sFriend.com. Musician’s Friend is located in Oregon, near the Rogue River, inspiring the name of these guitars."

https://www.quora.com/Who-makes-Rogu...w-are-they-mad

The Rogue River is great. Rogue strings seem to be pretty good at this point.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #126
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audioforce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RicTone View Post
It's so difficult to do Google searches! I'm lazy, as you evidently are as well @ audioforce . After an extensive and exhaustive Google search of 15 seconds I've determined that Rogue (not associated with NYC) probably has roots to Rogue guitars, "manufactured by Sunbo, in South Korea. It is the “house brand” for Musician’sFriend.com. Musician’s Friend is located in Oregon, near the Rogue River, inspiring the name of these guitars."

https://www.quora.com/Who-makes-Rogu...w-are-they-mad

The Rogue River is great. Rogue strings seem to be pretty good at this point.
Uhmm, the link goes to "page not found". We need more information before we buy thousands of dollars [give or take a few thousand dollars] worth of strings from these guys.

I'm starting an investigation.


cheers,


audioforce
Old 1 week ago
  #127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orson Maxwell View Post
No, but caring about SNR in a guitar setup is even more futile than caring about string gauge.
Not futile here. Even my Telecasters with stock Fender pickups have a -80 db s/n ratio with full screening and the hum-cancelling circuits installed.

I like a quiet guitar and amp. No hiss, no hum here unless the fuzz tone is on "11".
Old 1 week ago
  #128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Not futile here. Even my Telecasters with stock Fender pickups have a -80 db s/n ratio with full screening and the hum-cancelling circuits installed.

I like a quiet guitar and amp. No hiss, no hum here unless the fuzz tone is on "11".
And what would you say the highest acceptable noise floor is for you? Because you know, if thicker strings provided twice the output (which they don't), it would still be still just 3dB better.
Old 1 week ago
  #129
Playing clean I hear basically nothing out of the amp playing at combo/group levels. Take your hands off the strings and still nothing. With distortion pedals I hear a small amount of hiss but that is far behind the band level so it's never heard in a recording. The amps are fitted with rather large filter caps so they remove all of that residual noise. I have a few nice Aphex 612 noise gates but never needed to use them.

If I want louder strings I change them to electric bass strings for maximum output. That does make them harder to bend.
Old 1 week ago
  #130
Just for ****s and giggles, I installed Elixir 12-68s Baritone strings on my LesPaul. They are extremely fun to play right up to the first bend that you need to do.
But, I took some measurements while strumming like crazy. I understand that "like crazy" is not a precise term, but after a certain point the strings kind of hit the fretboard and bottom out anyway. So here they are:
1. D'Addario 10-52s: 1.22V peak-to-peak, 119mV RMS all 6 open first 10 seconds of ringing
2. Elixir Baritones: 1.47V p2p, 147mV RMS under roughly the same conditions.

This test is garbage precision-wise, however, I think I can draw some conclusions from it:
1. Heavier gauge strings do not produce less signal output within measurement error margins;
2. Heavier gauge strings do not produce more signal output within measurement error margins;
3. The apparent positive tendency in favour of thicker strings might be due to the fact that I did not adjust the height of the strings between runs, so heavier strings appeared closer to the pickups.

For me, it looks like both the tension-amplitude and mass-induction factors kind of work in the opposite direction pretty much canceling each other out and rendering all this SNR talk purely academic.

If anyone wants a more controlled experiment, I'm open to suggestions as to the protocol of such.
Old 1 week ago
  #131
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12ax7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Strings - What do you use when and why?
As to what strings I use, it depends on the guitar:

On a Strat, or Gibson SG, I like .010 DRs (with a plain 3rd)...

...On a Tele or Les Paul (or derivative), I like a Pure Nickle Wrap (with a wound 3rd).
(Good luck finding those in your local music store.)
.
Old 1 week ago
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
As to what strings I use, it depends on the guitar:

On a Strat, or Gibson SG, I like .010 DRs (with a plain 3rd)...

...On a Tele or Les Paul (or derivative), I like a Pure Nickle Wrap (with a wound 3rd).
(Good luck finding those in yourd tho local music store.)
.

I found those strings for you, remember? Check my post number 114.


cheers,

at
Old 1 week ago
  #133
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12ax7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
I found those strings for you, remember? Check my post number 114.


cheers,

at

They don't sell pure nickel wrap.

They are very happy to sell you nickle PLATED steel wrapped strings (but I have no interest in those).
.
Old 1 week ago
  #134
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audioforce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post

They don't sell pure nickel wrap.

They are very happy to sell you nickle PLATED steel wrapped strings (but I have no interest in those).
.
Second link says pure nickel.

“Description

GHS Electric Guitar Strings

GHS Set 1315 Nickel Wrap Guitar Strings (.011 - .050) with wound third, Full Set

.011 .013 .018w .026 .038 .050
Wrapped with round pure nickel.“


cheers,

audioforce
Old 1 week ago
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Second link says pure nickel.

“Description

GHS Electric Guitar Strings

GHS Set 1315 Nickel Wrap Guitar Strings (.011 - .050) with wound third, Full Set

.011 .013 .018w .026 .038 .050
Wrapped with round pure nickel.“
Ah!

I guess I missed that!

...Too bad I can't find them locally.
.
Old 1 week ago
  #136
Want louder? Set the pickups real close and play harder. Or, turn up the gain a click or two?
Old 1 week ago
  #137
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enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Want louder? Set the pickups real close and play harder. Or, turn up the gain a click or two?
Didn't you mean the Master?

Old 1 week ago
  #138
I'm liking Ernie Ball Cobalts currently. Though I've heard they wear down the frets quite a bit quicker thanks to the larger windings and the abrasiveness on the fingers takes a little getting used to. Normally though I prefer a brighter string with the clarity and separation it brings.
Old 1 week ago
  #139
An opportunity to go for real metal frets instead of the squishy-soft nickel silver rubbish
Old 1 week ago
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
I'm liking Ernie Ball Cobalts currently. Though I've heard they wear down the frets quite a bit quicker thanks to the larger windings and the abrasiveness on the fingers takes a little getting used to. Normally though I prefer a brighter string with the clarity and separation it brings.
Yes. I seem to like them on most electrics here. And all the Warwick bass's. Great midrange.
Old 1 week ago
  #141
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This may cause me to rethink tone woods but more pertinent to this thread where does one get strings for this! This may spill over into scale length discussions too but then he does appear to be tuned down some.
\
Old 1 week ago
  #142
Maybe a baritone set? They're usually longer.
Old 1 week ago
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
This may cause me to rethink tone woods but more pertinent to this thread where does one get strings for this! This may spill over into scale length discussions too but then he does appear to be tuned down some.
\
Its a Harp Guitar. They are cool. You can buy strings for them at various places.

They had one on display at Guitar Center in Hollywood for the longest time. Its probably still there.

Here's a nice one for sale. Cheap, too. : )

https://reverb.com/item/3315292-rare...rc=aw.ds&pla=1

And how about a nice contra-guitar?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraguitar

Here's the one from Guitar Center, I think [Gibson].
Attached Thumbnails
Strings - What do you use when and why?-guitare_harpe.jpg  
Old 1 week ago
  #144
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There are some situations where string gauge is especially important since you REALLY don't wanna break one in this situation....



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