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How come bodies cost $100 and body blanks cost $180?
Old 5th June 2019
  #1
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How come bodies cost $100 and body blanks cost $180?

.
How come bodies cost $100 and body blanks cost $180?
Old 5th June 2019
  #2

More wood....



-tINY

Old 6th June 2019
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tINY View Post
More wood....
... and no holes.
Old 6th June 2019
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lame pseudonym View Post
.
How come bodies cost $100 and body blanks cost $180?
CNC shops buy pallets of blanks and then cut them. Any scrap left over they glue together to make other bodies. Most bodies you buy are 2-3 piece laminates. Big parts MFGs all sell multi-piece bodies now. So it's much cheaper. When you buy a blank you buy a 1 piece solid slab and only you don't buy in quantity so it costs more. Also most pre-cut bodies are cheap quality wood like ash alder or poplar or even worse. You can buy quality tone wood blanks like Mahogany or Limba and they better than cheap woods. Ideally you want a one piece body.
Old 6th June 2019
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
CNC shops buy pallets of blanks and then cut them. Any scrap left over they glue together to make other bodies. Most bodies you buy are 2-3 piece laminates. Big parts MFGs all sell multi-piece bodies now. So it's much cheaper. When you buy a blank you buy a 1 piece solid slab and only you don't buy in quantity so it costs more. Also most pre-cut bodies are cheap quality wood like ash alder or poplar or even worse. You can buy quality tone wood blanks like Mahogany or Limba and they better than cheap woods. Ideally you want a one piece body.
Exactly. Better wood, made with fewer pieces sounds better and is therefore more valuable
Old 6th June 2019
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
CNC shops buy pallets of blanks and then cut them. Any scrap left over they glue together to make other bodies. Most bodies you buy are 2-3 piece laminates. Big parts MFGs all sell multi-piece bodies now. So it's much cheaper. When you buy a blank you buy a 1 piece solid slab and only you don't buy in quantity so it costs more. Also most pre-cut bodies are cheap quality wood like ash alder or poplar or even worse. You can buy quality tone wood blanks like Mahogany or Limba and they better than cheap woods. Ideally you want a one piece body.
Actually, alder and swamp ash are desirable body woods, even though I like 'hog bodies.

Hey, how come I never see roasted mahogany?!? Roasted maple and swamp ash, yes, but never 'hog. If they roast rock maple to make a more stable neck, and it's harder than 'hog to begin with, why not produce roasted mahogany?
Old 6th June 2019
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
Hey, how come I never see roasted mahogany?!? Roasted maple and swamp ash, yes, but never 'hog. If they roast rock maple to make a more stable neck, and it's harder than 'hog to begin with, why not produce roasted mahogany?
My understanding is roasting came about to deliver on folks' desire for darker color on light-colored woods at a time when attractive-looking rosewood and ebony is becoming harder to obtain, not necessarily for stability. Mahogany, of course, is already dark. But I could be completely misinformed. It's happened before.
Old 7th June 2019
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post


Hey, how come I never see roasted mahogany?
http://guitarwoodexperts.com/roasted...3a-body-blank/
Old 7th June 2019
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bash View Post
Mahogany, of course, is already dark
It is if it is good mahogany form Central Africa. But the cheaper central American mahogany is lighter colored. Honduras is one that is cheap$ and lighter colored.
Old 7th June 2019
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
Also most pre-cut bodies are cheap quality wood like ash alder or poplar or even worse. You can buy quality tone wood blanks like Mahogany or Limba and they better than cheap woods. Ideally you want a one piece body.
Um, no. Just because a species of wood is less expensive does not mean it is less desirable as a tone wood.

In fact you can have an expensive piece of Mahogany that sucks as a tonewood for guitar - especially with the practical extinction of light weight old growth Honduras Mahogany.

Spruce is as cheap as it gets, but it isn't a low quality tone wood. Alder is dead cheep, but is a fantastic tonewood for electric instruments.

While you want the best quality wood of whatever species you choose it is disingenuous to suggest that less expensive, faster growing, easier harvested woods such as Maple, Ash, Alder are less desirable than more expensive species such as Mahogany and Rosewood.

Absolutely nothing wrong with good ole' plain Alder for musical instruments. In fact there's a quality argument that a Strat isn't a good Strat unless the body is Alder - but I'm not here to start a fight... ;~)

Cheers,
Brock

Last edited by Bstapper; 10th June 2019 at 04:14 PM.. Reason: spelling corrected
Old 7th June 2019
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
It is if it is good mahogany form Central Africa. But the cheaper central American mahogany is lighter colored. Honduras is one that is cheap$ and lighter colored.
*Real* Honduras Mahogany is about as expensive as it gets in the Mahogany family and is practically extinct. While there are several types of Mahogany that are sold as Honduras Mahogany, the real deal is hard to mistake for anything you will typically see on the market sold as such.
Old 7th June 2019
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bstapper View Post
Um, no. Just because a species of wood is less expensive does not mean it is less desirable as a tone wood.

In fact you can have an expensive piece of Mahogany that sucks as a tonewood for guitar - especially with the practical extension of light weight old growth Honduras Mahogany.

Spruce is as cheap as it gets, but it isn't a low quality tone wood. Alder is dead cheep, but is a fantastic tonewood for electric instruments.

While you want the best quality wood of whatever species you choose it is disingenuous to suggest that less expensive, faster growing, easier harvested woods such as Maple, Ash, Alder are less desirable than more expensive species such as Mahogany and Rosewood.

Absolutely nothing wrong with good ole' plain Alder for musical instruments. In fact there's a quality argument that a Strat isn't a good Strat unless the body is Alder - but I'm not here to start a fight... ;~)

Cheers,
Brock
No one builds guitars out of Ash, Alder or maple unless they are trying to cut corners and maximize profits. Sure there are lots of stupid clueless players that will buy those guitars but that is not a basis to make claims that they are good woods. Cheap quality woods like alder and maple are easier to manufacturer guitars from. For one they are inexpensive$$$, Two, they are easy to mill and CNC, Three they are easy to paint as opposed to tonewoods . Alder is only a step above basswood or poplar which is a step above plywood. Quality guitars are made out of Mahogany, Koa, Limba or similar high quality tone woods.
Old 7th June 2019
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
No one builds guitars out of Ash, Alder or maple unless they are trying to cut corners and maximize profits. Sure there are lots of stupid clueless players that will buy those guitars but that is not a basis to make claims that they are good woods. Cheap quality woods like alder and maple are easier to manufacturer guitars from. For one they are inexpensive$$$, Two, they are easy to mill and CNC, Three they are easy to paint as opposed to tonewoods . Alder is only a step above basswood or poplar which is a step above plywood. Quality guitars are made out of Mahogany, Koa, Limba or similar high quality tone woods.
Sorry, but you have no clue. You obviously hear with your eyes.
Old 7th June 2019
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bstapper View Post
Sorry, but you have no clue. You obviously hear with your eyes.
When someone resorts to personal attacks it generally means they have no argument. Well today you are that someone !!!

Anyway the most sought after and highest valued guitars ever made are all primarily made of tone woods like Mahogany, Limba, Rosewood, Ebony and alike. And to be fair, sometimes with flame maple caps. So from that perspective I'm not sure you can call me clueless based on any real facts. Not that it really matters either way, since I doubt anyone here is going to listen to my advice or yours for that matter. Like all musicians they have pre-determined biases and they will make decisions based on them. I have built lots of guitars and I can tell you from real world experience the reason companies use alder, ash and plain maple is because it is inexpensive and easy to form and it does not require timely preparation prior/during finishing. That saves both time and money. People like you think guitar manufacturers are doing you a favor. Let me tell you, they make guitars to make profits, nothing more. The more money they can save the more money they make.
Old 7th June 2019
  #15
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Inexpensive does not equal poor tone wood. It simply means it is more readily available.

To label alder, spruce, maple, and ash as inferior due to cost is ignorant. To suggest all mahogany is created equal and is superior is misinformed. To state quality guitars are only made out of the woods you mention is simply incorrect.

Tell me this, oh mister tonewood expert. If maple and spruce are inferior tonewoods why is every classical string instrument in the world constructed from those materials?

Alder isn’t pretty looking. But it sounds fantastic. And to compare it to poor tonewoods such as basswood or poplar is not in the same genre.

You can view my words as a personal attack or you can learn something.
Old 7th June 2019
  #16
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Quote:
Dang! Thank you, sir. I guess I should've googled it; I just hadn't seen any in my usual supply places.

In answer to the OP's topic, even these roasted mahogany body blanks are $110(US).
Old 8th June 2019
  #17
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"Anyway the most sought after and highest valued guitars ever made are all primarily made of tone woods like Mahogany, Limba, Rosewood, Ebony and alike.

You know, like Telecasters and stuff....

And I think I would politely differ with the statement that people use maple because it's easy to work. I don't have a lot of experience with Maple but when I did it was like trying to cut metal.
Old 8th June 2019
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
Dang! Thank you, sir. I guess I should've googled it; I just hadn't seen any in my usual supply places.

In answer to the OP's topic, even these roasted mahogany body blanks are $110(US).
Ooh, nice source! Thanks.

I think I roasted my Epiphone body myself, though, when I torched the polyglop off with a very hot heat gun.
Old 9th June 2019
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
No one builds guitars out of Ash, Alder or maple unless they are trying to cut corners and maximize profits.
More misinformation.

Maple is considered a high quality tonewood. In addition to being the preferred wood for the backs and sides of classical violins all the way back to Stradivarius, it is the wood used for Gibson's top of the line J-200 and most of Guild's top of the line acoustic guitars and many of Gibson's top of the line jazz boxes. Not to mention the tops of most of Gibson's top quality Les Pauls.

Top quality maple is not a cheap wood. In fact AAA and AAAA flame maple is quite expensive. It is also not particularly easy to work - not nearly as easy as mahogany, which is a fairly soft tonewood.

Quote:
Sure there are lots of stupid clueless players that will buy those guitars but that is not a basis to make claims that they are good woods.


Quote:
Cheap quality woods like alder and maple are easier to manufacturer guitars from. For one they are inexpensive$$$,
Wrong. And you should not lump alder and maple together as they are quiter different in all aspects, including value.

The reason that maple is a preferred wood for necks is that it is much harder and more durable than mahogany, which breaks and warps much more easily.

I do like mahogany necks, but they're a lot more fragile. In over 50 years I've seen many mahogany necks with broken heads. In that time I can remember only one maple neck with such a break.

Quote:
Two, they are easy to mill and CNC,
Wrong.

Quote:
Three they are easy to paint as opposed to tonewoods .
Wrong again. Where do you get these kooky notions?

Mahogany has a very porous grain and requires extensive filling in order to be able to achieve a good, smooth finish.

Quote:
Alder is only a step above basswood or poplar which is a step above plywood.
And again.

Quote:
Quality guitars are made out of Mahogany, Koa, Limba or similar high quality tone woods.
There is actually a lot more cheap junk mahogany around than either maple or alder. Some of the worst guitars I've ever seen have been made of mahogany.
Old 9th June 2019
  #20
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Alright - that's two threads in a row where I've been forced to agree with John.

I'm taking a break from the internet for a while... ;~)
Old 9th June 2019
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by lame pseudonym View Post
"Anyway the most sought after and highest valued guitars ever made are all primarily made of tone woods like Mahogany, Limba, Rosewood, Ebony and alike.

You know, like Telecasters and stuff....
Not to mention Gibson J-200s, most Guild F-series, Gibson Byrdlands, Super 400s, and ES-5s, L-5s up to the current top of the line L-5 CES (a $10,599 guitar in sunburst, $11,999 in natural, in the current Sweetwater catalog).

All of which are more expensive and sought after than similar guitars with mahogany.

Quote:

And I think I would politely differ with the statement that people use maple because it's easy to work. I don't have a lot of experience with Maple but when I did it was like trying to cut metal.
Yep! You got that right! Not so sure about the "polite" part though. I'm not certain that a person who habitually spreads bad information qualifies for that.
Old 9th June 2019
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
More misinformation.

Maple is considered a high quality tonewood. In addition to being the preferred wood for the backs and sides of classical violins all the way back to Stradivarius, it is the wood used for Gibson's top of the line J-200 and most of Guild's top of the line acoustic guitars and many of Gibson's top of the line jazz boxes. Not to mention the tops of most of Gibson's top quality Les Pauls.

Top quality maple is not a cheap wood. In fact AAA and AAAA flame maple is quite expensive. It is also not particularly easy to work - not nearly as easy as mahogany, which is a fairly soft tonewood.







Wrong. And you should not lump alder and maple together as they are quiter different in all aspects, including value.

The reason that maple is a preferred wood for necks is that it is much harder and more durable than mahogany, which breaks and warps much more easily.

I do like mahogany necks, but they're a lot more fragile. In over 50 years I've seen many mahogany necks with broken heads. In that time I can remember only one maple neck with such a break.



Wrong.



Wrong again. Where do you get these kooky notions?

Mahogany has a very porous grain and requires extensive filling in order to be able to achieve a good, smooth finish.



And again.



There is actually a lot more cheap junk mahogany around than either maple or alder. Some of the worst guitars I've ever seen have been made of mahogany.
John you have reading comprehension of a 5 year old.
Old 10th June 2019
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bstapper View Post
Alright - that's two threads in a row where I've been forced to agree with John.
That's only because the other choice is so absurd.
Old 10th June 2019
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
That's only because the other choice is so absurd.
True that. I keep thinking I'm missing something and surely I can't be reading what I'm reading.
Old 10th June 2019
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bstapper View Post
True that. I keep thinking I'm missing something and surely I can't be reading what I'm reading.
You can almost set your watch by it. 4:30 weekdays, Pacific Time.
Old 10th June 2019
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
You can almost set your watch by it. 4:30 weekdays, Pacific Time.
Between this and the thread where the guy took exception to my suggestion that his Princeton Reverb was no longer a Princeton Reverb I was beginning to think it was me. "so you all you changed was the preamp section, the power amp section, and the speaker so it's still a Princeton Reverb? Why - because of the Faceplate??"
Old 10th June 2019
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bstapper View Post
Between this and the thread where the guy took exception...
At this point, there's an impressive body of work.
Old 10th June 2019
  #28
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Funny how values get determined. I have a 62 Fender Strat that has been modified so it is not worth that much as a Strat but if I take it apart the parts make it worth a ton. Go figure?
Old 11th June 2019
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
John you have reading comprehension of a 5 year old.
Well, unless we missed a line where you wrote, "Everything I write is the opposite of the truth." Where do you get these goofy, incredibly-easy-to-disprove notions?
Old 12th June 2019
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
...the most sought after and highest valued guitars ever made are all primarily made of tone woods like Mahogany, Limba, Rosewood, Ebony and alike...
A solid body guitar made out of ebony is not a guitar that I would want to hang on my shoulder for more than about ten minutes. Maybe make a good boar anchor. Ebony does sink.

I've had a few rosewood Teles. An original and a re-issue. Forgetaboutit. Maybe my best sounding guitar is the '59 Tele, swamp ash and light as a feather.
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