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Gibson GA-5 (1958-61) Current Value?
Old 8th May 2019
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
I have a question for you - what are you willing to PAY for a GA-5 in good shape? The older -5 watt version and the later 10 watt, one price for each?
Shouldn't be too hard to look up one for sale. I can look up a Super Reverb in ten seconds. Show me the money, John.

Show me one for sale that matches your words. Or are you just full of sh*t?

Thanks,
Brock
Old 8th May 2019
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bstapper View Post
Shouldn't be too hard to look up one for sale. I can look up a Super Reverb in ten seconds. Show me the money, John.

Show me one for sale that matches your words. Or are you just full of sh*t?

Thanks,
Brock
I said what are you willing to pay?

Since you know so much about the value of these amps surely you must have a pretty good idea of what you would be willing to spend.

Not what the "look-up value" is - I already established that. But if you think the book is "wrong" then how much would you pay?

MY money? My money goes mostly to recording equipment these days. I rarely buy guitar gear anymore unless it's something we have a specific need for.

Got any old Neumanns?

(I do miss doing the flea markets but the arthritis in my hips prevents me from doing a lot of strolling around these days. I do still hit the occasional hock shop.)

As to what I'd pay for one of those old Gibson amps personally? Maybe $100-$150 on a good day. I don't need
one.
Old 8th May 2019
  #33
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I don’t blame you. I found a chassis for $250 and a bunch of reissues for $400 and up. I don’t blame you at all for failing to back up your smack talk. Because you can’t. It isn’t possible. Because you are talking out of your ass and continuing to suggest your book is more accurate than the reality of the market.

Go home son. You’re done.
Old 8th May 2019
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bstapper View Post
I don’t blame you. I found a chassis for $250 and a bunch of reissues for $400 and up. I don’t blame you at all for failing to back up your smack talk. Because you can’t. It isn’t possible. Because you are talking out of your ass and continuing to suggest your book is more accurate than the reality of the market.

Go home son. You’re done.
The only one talking smack in this thread is you.

In fact you have done nothing BUT talk smack ever since I posted the book prices.

First you made the absurd claim that the going price is around $700, which is ridiculous. Then after a number of rude and insulting posts you finally admitted that market pricing is actually around $350-$450, which is right on the book pricing. (Still think that's high, but there is a current fad for old practice amps these days and the book does reflect that to some degree, just not to the ridiculous extent as the sucker prices on eBay.)

At which point I thanked you for admitting that you were wrong and hoped to leave it at that.

Since then all you've dome is post insults and attempts to backpedal on the fact that you caved.

Then I asked you what YOU, yourself would actually pay and you dodged the question, attempting to deflect it back on me - and I answered. I don't think the amps are worth the current book prices, let alone your hallucinatory $700, but that's really beside the point, which is what would YOU actually pay?

Would you pay $700? $500? I don't think so.

I'm guessing that you probably wouldn't pay much more than I would and you're just, as you put it, "talking smack" and attempting to run up prices.

Which doesn't do anybody any favors except for the used gear pimps trying to take advantage of naive wannabe "collectors".

One last time - what something is worth is what you can count on getting in a reasonable length of time. It's not "asking price". It's not an outlier price paid by somebody in a hurry with money to burn. It's what you can reasonably expect to get without sitting on it forever waiting for a sucker, because although suckers do sometimes happen along you can't count on them.

Sometimes some famous guy will say something in print and engender a sucker swarm for awhile. Sometimes the activity is enough to affect the book price. Nearly always the prices settle back down, maybe not to where they started, but to a level that isn't totally idiotic.

Last edited by John Eppstein; 8th May 2019 at 11:53 PM..
Old 8th May 2019
  #35
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obviously your reading comprehension is suffering. Fortunately it is all documented here for the inquiring mind to sort through.

Show me the money. Surely the lowly 58-61 GA-5 isn't the only product in the world that can't be had for fair market value on the internet. Show me proof. I've listed example after example to back up my claims.

Show me the money there, hot stuff.
Old 9th May 2019
  #36
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fwiw I just typed 'Gibson skylark' into sold items on ebay.com and they range between $237 and $664.
Old 9th May 2019
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
fwiw I just typed 'Gibson skylark' into sold items on ebay.com and they range between $237 and $664.
The ones in the lower end of the scale are post 61 with control panel on the front. There isn’t a pre 62 that sold for less than 455.

The reason that is an important distinction is that the GA5 was essentially a champ up until ‘58. It underwent a circuit change but remained a champ like tone monster. ‘62 the circuit changed to an entirely different animal with different power tube and is no longer as desirable.

Last edited by Bstapper; 9th May 2019 at 02:59 AM..
Old 9th May 2019
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bstapper View Post
obviously your reading comprehension is suffering. Fortunately it is all documented here for the inquiring mind to sort through.

Show me the money. Surely the lowly 58-61 GA-5 isn't the only product in the world that can't be had for fair market value on the internet. Show me proof. I've listed example after example to back up my claims.

Show me the money there, hot stuff.
You have not provided any examples. All you've provided is hearsay.

I, OTOH, provided a reference example.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Vintage+G...f=nb_sb_noss_2

I see the new one is on sale....

Edit: The GA-5 probably can be had for a fair price on the internet, most things can. All you have to do is be patient, wait until one turns up for a reasonable price, and when it does be faster than everyone else.

Did you really spend $250 for just a chassis?

I'm concluding that you're a waste of time, arguing just for the sake of arguing. I think I'll give you a rest, at least in this thread.
Old 9th May 2019
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
You have not provided any examples. All you've provided is hearsay.

I, OTOH, provided a reference example.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Vintage+G...f=nb_sb_noss_2

I see the new one is on sale....
I provided link after link and evidence to back up what I'm saying. You have quoted a book.

So if you suggest the original poster buy one for the price you state - show us the money. Where is he gonna' go?

Provide a link for one for sale in that range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqKY7pg7wEc
Old 9th May 2019
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post

Did you really spend $250 for just a chassis?
find your glasses. You have misread what I wrote.

Show us the proof. Surely with the entire world at your fingertips the GA-5 isn't the *only* item in the world that isn't available right now for fair market value on the internet.

Prove it.
Old 10th May 2019
  #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bstapper View Post
I provided link after link and evidence to back up what I'm saying. You have quoted a book.

So if you suggest the original poster buy one for the price you state - show us the money. Where is he gonna' go?

Provide a link for one for sale in that range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqKY7pg7wEc
Right. You qioted a bunch of internet BS.

I quoted a reference publication.

And then you caved and admitted thart what the book said was, in fact, the prevailing price range.

Which you tried to take back.

Maybe the idiot in the white house can get away with that crap.

You don't get to get away with it in real life.
Old 10th May 2019
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bstapper View Post
find your glasses. You have misread what I wrote.

Show us the proof. Surely with the entire world at your fingertips the GA-5 isn't the *only* item in the world that isn't available right now for fair market value on the internet.

Prove it.
I don't need to "prove" anything. I stand on the documentation.

You're the one making undocumented claims.

One shot sales on Ebay are NOT proof of market values. They're just evidence that gullible people with excess cash are occasionally willing to pay utterly ridiculous fad prices.

Because they've been conned into believing that they're making an "investment" on a "collection".

Which I'm totally willing to stipulate to. Idiots with more money than sense are willing to pay absurdly inflated prices, based on current fads.

Absolutely.

It's still not a proper evaluation.

And fools who dump their money into "collectible" merchandise that has reached (or probably passed) its peak will eventually lose their shirts in the long run.

From where I sit, the book prices are more than fair, if not a bit overpriced.

But right now, lots of people are willing to overpay far more than merchandise is worth.

They'll regret it come time to sell.

Question - of all those amps on the shelves in your pictures, how many of them actually get played?

I would bet almost none.
Old 10th May 2019
  #43
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Surely in the entire world there must be a GA-5 for sale at what you say is the correct market value. Show us. Should be easy. I could do so for any amplifier ever made. Are you saying the GA-5 is the only one that is inflated everywhere on the internet?

Show us.
Old 10th May 2019
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
I have a question for you - what are you willing to PAY for a GA-5 in good shape? The older -5 watt version and the later 10 watt, one price for each?
Hi John, I get the horrible feeling that you two are talking at cross-purposes. The variety of versions of Gibson amps is enough to drive one crazy. That's why it's difficult to generalize along the lines of "Gibson amps were made for slide guitars". I think that's giving Gibson credit for being more consistent than they really were. There's endless versions of each type of amp, which I think contributed to their lack of success. Basically, Gibson always treated amps as a secondary concern.

In the interest of clarity, I think the amp he us referring to is this one (except with a 10" speaker version. Crazy gibson versions again):

http://www.0rigami.com/gg/amps.html#...ylark_Two-Tone

This is the best attempt I have seen at clarifying to some extent the different Gibson amp versions.

If you look at the supplied schematics, they are indeed very similar to a tweed Champ.

As for prices, I think the prices you quote are a bit low but not too far off for the US, but I also think that these amps are a huge bargain. Basically they are tiny and light, sound good clean and distort easily. The input can be overdriven quite well in my experience with my 1958 GA5 (8" speaker).

Compared to a tweed champ, the downsides would be:

- it's less well known
- cabinet made of redwood and not pine
- circuit slightly different (you can see an explanation on that website. I'm not a tech but the differences do not sound massive).
- in general less attention to detail than on Fender amps, plus the wide variation in models already mentioned

I think that makes it cheaper, but, based on my first-hand experience, still a very nice amp.
Old 11th May 2019
  #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santiago View Post
Hi John, I get the horrible feeling that you two are talking at cross-purposes. The variety of versions of Gibson amps is enough to drive one crazy. That's why it's difficult to generalize along the lines of "Gibson amps were made for slide guitars". I think that's giving Gibson credit for being more consistent than they really were. There's endless versions of each type of amp, which I think contributed to their lack of success. Basically, Gibson always treated amps as a secondary concern.
The reason that these amps are said to have been intended for lap steel guitars is that they were originally sold in kits with lap steel guitars. In fact the GA-5 has originally designated the "BA-5" and was sold in a kit with the lap steel of the same model number. Gibson changed the model designation in the mid '50s due to the burgeoning popularity of the electric "Spanish" guitar and the slowly waning popularity of the lap steel "Hawaiian" guitar.

Quote:
In the interest of clarity, I think the amp he us referring to is this one (except with a 10" speaker version. Crazy gibson versions again):

http://www.0rigami.com/gg/amps.html#...ylark_Two-Tone

This is the best attempt I have seen at clarifying to some extent the different Gibson amp versions.

If you look at the supplied schematics, they are indeed very similar to a tweed Champ.
On that level of amplifiers, almost all the schematics appear "very similar" to the average person. The devil is in the details - changing the value of two resistors in a basic triode preamp stage can radically alter the gain structure and hence the sound of the stage. (gain, harmonic distortion, output, etc.)

It should be noted that because of this the distortion and overload characteristics of such an amp today may be considerably different than when the amp was new due to component drift, especially considering that the early carbon composite resistors definitely do drift with age and being subjected to heat - not that those resistors had very tight tolerances to begin with.

The article you referenced is not entirely accurate (not surprising since it seems to largely reference websites run by people who probably weren't around in the '50s and '60s.) Notably the article overlooks the fact that the amp was in fact in production prior to 1954, under the "BA-5" model number. This corresponded with the introduction of the Les Paul Junior guitar and Gibson's desire to expand the market for the amp beyond lap steel guitar sets.

Furthermore the article states in the GA-5T entry "Push-pull 6AQ5; like a Fender 6G2 Princeton", which is pretty wrong. The 6G2 Princeton used 6V6 output tubes which are vastly different sounding than 6AQ5s. The ratings are similar, the tone is not. The physical design does make a difference in tonal character especially when driven hard and a mini 7 pin tube is simply not going to sound like a full size octal. In this case the 6AQ5 is cleaner and harder to break up.

Last edited by John Eppstein; 11th May 2019 at 12:45 AM..
Old 11th May 2019
  #46
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I'm glad to see a thread speaking favorably about old Gibson amps. I have a 1958 Gibson ga-6 amplifier.

2 6V6 power tubes,12 ax7 preamp tubes and the blue Jensen speaker with the Transformer mounted beside it.

It's almost the same circuit as the wide panel tweed Deluxe amplifiers of that era.

There is no clean headroom to speak of, but the overdriven sound is remarkable.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled dick waving contest.

Oh yes, I bought it used in the late 1970s for $40.
Old 11th May 2019
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hicks View Post
I'm glad to see a thread speaking favorably about old Gibson amps. I have a 1958 Gibson ga-6 amplifier.

2 6V6 power tubes,12 ax7 preamp tubes and the blue Jensen speaker with the Transformer mounted beside it.

It's almost the same circuit as the wide panel tweed Deluxe amplifiers of that era.

There is no clean headroom to speak of, but the overdriven sound is remarkable.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled dick waving contest.

Oh yes, I bought it used in the late 1970s for $40.
How much would it take for you to sell it?
Old 11th May 2019
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bstapper View Post
How much would it take for you to sell it?
Tough to say, because I really like it.

Each time I have sold off vintage gear I regretted it later.

Especially the early 40s Gibson ES125 which I played in my college jazz band days. Traded it for a Tele...
Old 13th May 2019
  #49
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I'm with Brock on this one. Street price and book value are different things-- street price is the only thing that matters here.

A 50's GA-5 in very good condition sells for $500 to $600 these days, IME.
Old 13th May 2019
  #50
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
The reason that these amps are said to have been intended for lap steel guitars is that they were originally sold in kits with lap steel guitars. In fact the GA-5 has originally designated the "BA-5" and was sold in a kit with the lap steel of the same model number. Gibson changed the model designation in the mid '50s due to the burgeoning popularity of the electric "Spanish" guitar and the slowly waning popularity of the lap steel "Hawaiian" guitar.
John, I believe you may be confusing the Gibson BR series with "BA" here. The GA-5 was never designated as a "BA-5" and sold with a lap steel. The GA-5 certainly could be, and often was, paired with a lap steel, but that was not its primary designation. The BR series, on the other hand, had the lap steels and conforming amps (e.g. BR-6 lap steel and BR-6 amp).

The GA-5 and GA-40 amps were originally introduced as "Les Paul" amps, suggesting that the primary user would be guitar players.


Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Furthermore the article states in the GA-5T entry "Push-pull 6AQ5; like a Fender 6G2 Princeton", which is pretty wrong. The 6G2 Princeton used 6V6 output tubes which are vastly different sounding than 6AQ5s. The ratings are similar, the tone is not. The physical design does make a difference in tonal character especially when driven hard and a mini 7 pin tube is simply not going to sound like a full size octal. In this case the 6AQ5 is cleaner and harder to break up.
Your points regarding the 6AQ5 GA-5 amp are definitely on point. Note however, that the 6AQ5 tube compliment for the GA-5 and GA-5T did not come into play until 1962. From 1952 to 1961 The GA series used 6V6 tubes.

An excellent source of information for Gibson amps may be found here:
http://www.superiormusic.com/page199.htm

I own 4 older Gibson amps - a 1954 GA-5 (oval Jensen speaker), a 1960 GA-5, 1954 GA-6, and a 1958 GA-20. They are excellent amps. contrary to your assertion, none of the four are "lower gain and need to be hit a lot harder to get any real grit and distortion." Simply not true.
Old 13th May 2019
  #51
Quote:
Originally Posted by bocage44 View Post
John, I believe you may be confusing the Gibson BR series with "BA" here. The GA-5 was never designated as a "BA-5" and sold with a lap steel. The GA-5 certainly could be, and often was, paired with a lap steel, but that was not its primary designation. The BR series, on the other hand, had the lap steels and conforming amps (e.g. BR-6 lap steel and BR-6 amp).

The GA-5 and GA-40 amps were originally introduced as "Les Paul" amps, suggesting that the primary user would be guitar players.
You are at least partially correct. It was BR.

The GA-5 "Skylark" was paired with the "Skylark" lap steel.

The GA-5 "Les Paul Junior" was just a rebranding of an earlier BR series amp.

What I'm finding really odd about the listings for the Les Paul Junior amps is that I used to own a Les Paul Junior amp that does not fit the description of any of the GA-5 amps in the book. It had a rounded, humpy case the was, IIRC, two-tone cream and brown and had a plastic "Les Paul Junior" logo in front of the speaker. The control panel was in the chassis mounted at the bottom of the cabinet, not the top. I have seen exctly two of these, one I owned that was in poor condition and had been painted black (and was missing the plastic logo) and one that was mint which was in a vintage guitar shop in San Francisco.
Old 14th May 2019
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bocage44 View Post

I own 4 older Gibson amps - a 1954 GA-5 (oval Jensen speaker), a 1960 GA-5, 1954 GA-6, and a 1958 GA-20. They are excellent amps. contrary to your assertion, none of the four are "lower gain and need to be hit a lot harder to get any real grit and distortion." Simply not true.

True words, my friend, true words. My two favorite Gibson amplifiers are the GA-40 (well known and ultra desirable) and the GA-30RV (not as well known and an absolute Fender Tweed Killer). I've owned a few GA-30RV amplifiers over the years and finally found another one in decent shape. It isn't going anywhere. It is literally like plugging into SRV's recording rig of multiple amps via that one tone monster. An absolute blues and rock machine.

Very few of those out there as they didn't make many and people tend to hold on to them once they find out what they've got.

Cheers!
Brock
Old 14th May 2019
  #53
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
You are at least partially correct. It was BR.

The GA-5 "Skylark" was paired with the "Skylark" lap steel.

The GA-5 "Les Paul Junior" was just a rebranding of an earlier BR series amp.

What I'm finding really odd about the listings for the Les Paul Junior amps is that I used to own a Les Paul Junior amp that does not fit the description of any of the GA-5 amps in the book. It had a rounded, humpy case the was, IIRC, two-tone cream and brown and had a plastic "Les Paul Junior" logo in front of the speaker. The control panel was in the chassis mounted at the bottom of the cabinet, not the top. I have seen exctly two of these, one I owned that was in poor condition and had been painted black (and was missing the plastic logo) and one that was mint which was in a vintage guitar shop in San Francisco.
John, small numbers of the Skylark lap steel were introduced in mid 1956. It didn't go into full production until 1957. In the 1956 Gibson catalog, the GA-5 amp (Les Paul JR) is shown paired with the Les Paul JR guitar as a package. Interestingly, the 1956 catalog also shows the BR-9 lap steel paired with a GA-9 amp. That pairing makes sense to me, as the GA-9 has a 10" speaker and is rated at 10 watts. The GA-9 doesn't break up nearly as well as the GA-5.

The 1956 Gibson catalog may be found here: http://www.preservationsound.com/wp-...c_1956_cat.pdf

In 1957, the Skylark lap steel was produced in full numbers, and, according to catalogs of the era, indeed meant to be paired with the rebadged GA-5 Skylark amp.

I can't find a 1957 Gibson catalog online, but here's a 1959: https://acousticmusic.org/wp-content...-Catalog-G.pdf

As to the GA-5 being a rebranding of an earlier BR amp, I have to disagree completely with you. All BR amps had two output tubes (generally two 6v6's). The GA-5's from 1954 through 1961 had one 6v6.

Just for general info, I'd like to point out that the GA-5's that were produced 1954-1955 used a 6SJ7 as the preamp tube. The GA-5 Skylark 1957-61 used a 12AX7.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #54
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This is the most detailed late 50s/early 60s Gibson Ga-5 Skylark vs tweed Champ comparison I have seen - fascinating:

https://guitar.com/review/vintage-re...-ga-5-skylark/
Old 3 weeks ago
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santiago View Post
This is the most detailed late 50s/early 60s Gibson Ga-5 Skylark vs tweed Champ comparison I have seen - fascinating:

https://guitar.com/review/vintage-re...-ga-5-skylark/
Except that the author doesn't appear to have his facts straight.

In comparing the GA-5 to the 5F1 Champ he says:

"The inputs are different too, because the GA-5’s grid resistors are 47K rather than 68K and unlike the Champ, there’s no 1M resistor to ground. Both amps have a negative feedback loop connected to the cathode of the phase-splitter side of the 12AX7, but with a 47K resistor in the loop rather than 22K, the GA-5’s negative feedback is slightly reduced."

which is totally wrong since 5F1 Champs, being single ended amplifiers, do not have a phase splitter stage.

He is right in that the circuits of the two amps are quite different.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #56
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Ahh geeze. Just when you and I were getting along so well!

Have you picked up one of those $100 GA5's yet?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
which is totally wrong since 5F1 Champs, being single ended amplifiers, do not have a phase splitter stage.
But besides that (which seems like a typo), the point still stands that having less NFB will have an influence on the sound of the GA5 vs the tweed doesn't it?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santiago View Post
But besides that (which seems like a typo), the point still stands that having less NFB will have an influence on the sound of the GA5 vs the tweed doesn't it?
When my typing stumbles and I misspell a word it's a typo. When somebody claims that a single ended amp has a phase splitter int's not a typo, it's basic ignorance about amps.

Premiere Guitar has a long track record of bad or mistaken technical info. They do it on a regular basis. They simply don't care about technical accuracy.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
When my typing stumbles and I misspell a word it's a typo. When somebody claims that a single ended amp has a phase splitter int's not a typo, it's basic ignorance about amps.

Premiere Guitar has a long track record of bad or mistaken technical info. They do it on a regular basis. They simply don't care about technical accuracy.
Yeah, but I think it's such a basic mistake (even I know that single ended amps do not have a phase inverter) that it's probably just an oversight.

I think the overall assessment of the amp is not uninteresting: it sounds a bit like a champ, but it's different from a champ and it's a usable little amp.

I respect your knowledge a lot, but I think your opposition to this little amp is exaggerated. 100$ for an American-made, PTP, all-solid wood cab little amp with a 6V6, 5Y3, 12AX7, small American Jensen Alnico speaker and no obvious design flaws seems very cheap.

100$ is good for, say, a Chinese, MDF- cabinet, PCB Fender Champ 600 for the early 2000s with a version of the SF Champ circuit, solid-state rectifier and permanent hum due to design flaws (I like the Fender Champ 600 a lot and have one, but I wouldn't pay more than 100$ for one).

Anyway, I'm not trying to change your mind, as everybody has their own tastes in amps and is entitled to them. But I think you are unfairly maligning this little amp.

Last edited by Santiago; 2 weeks ago at 07:42 AM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #60
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OMG, Les Paul invented amps too?

What didn't that crafty dude do?



amazed,

audioforce
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