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Tone: does it REALLY matter? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 17th April 2019
  #31
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12ax7's Avatar
 

Tone is NOT something you HAVE:

Tone is something you DO!
.
Old 17th April 2019
  #32
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allphourus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
That's just the point, though - I was talking about the ELECTRIC guitar, and the obsessive quest for the "perfect tone" from that conglomeration of wood, wire, and electronics. Is there a "perfect tone"?

And yes, tone starts with the plucking of the note, and the fingers on the fretboard. I don't think anyone will really deny that. But, as you said (paraphrasing), a great guitarist can pick up a Daisy Rock plugged into a Gorilla amp, and come up with something beautiful.



Someone else's beautiful tone will probably NOT be yours. I loved listening to Allan Holdsworth, for example. Incredible player and tone. But would his tone work for me? I doubt it.
Is there a perfect tone? I am probably not qualified to answer that question. Perhaps you can find Segovia's thoughts on that some where on the interwebs or maybe get Robert Fripp to chime in. All I was saying is that without a shadow of a doubt "TONE MATTERS" , I really was not looking for an defensive argument or to debate, this is my truth, YMMV (depending on how you drive?) and that's OK to. I really think we are on the same page.

Now as far as AH is concerned I love what he does , he was one of those that truly reached in and grab you some place deeper than the ears or the mind, it's not so much about how he sounds as how he feels , it is deeply moving and spiritual, his tone was the results of years of searching for the tools to express what he was trying to say (and having what he was saying evolve also). Which again says tone is important and explains in black and white terms the search for the right tone for ones self that we go through as a life process. The Struggle Is real, it like refining gold . To capture the essence of his tone you would have capture his soul.
Old 17th April 2019
  #33
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Mikhael's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by allphourus View Post
Now as far as AH is concerned I love what he does , he was one of those that truly reached in and grab you some place deeper than the ears or the mind, it's not so much about how he sounds as how he feels , it is deeply moving and spiritual, his tone was the results of years of searching for the tools to express what he was trying to say (and having what he was saying evolve also). Which again says tone is important and explains in black and white terms the search for the right tone for ones self that we go through as a life process. The Struggle Is real, it like refining gold . To capture the essence of his tone you would have capture his soul.
One thing I noticed over the years though: No matter what guitar, amp, or FX Holdsworth used, he sounded remarkably similar throughout the process. He continued to seek little refinements over the years, but managed to have a consistent tone (well, once he got into IOU and beyond). HE was the tone, not the variety of guitars or amps he used.

Terrible, though. He turned the guitar world on its ear; so many guitarists worshiped the ground he rolled his amps on, yet the general public was never aware of him, and he passed away almost destitute.

I saw him about a decade ago here in a little dump in Austin, TX. He and Wackerman and Johnson pulled up in a van, carried all their own crap in, and set their own stuff up. It really stunned me. The man who brought all those famous guitarists to their knees couldn't even afford one roadie.
Old 17th April 2019
  #34
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kafka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
One thing I noticed over the years though: No matter what guitar, amp, or FX Holdsworth used, he sounded remarkably similar throughout the process.
I listened to the IOU album endlessly after it came out. On it, he used a very rare solid-state amp by Hartley Thompson. I saw the same amp for sale only once. I was tempted, but the one thing that would least help me to sound like Allan Holdsworth would be using the same gear.
Old 18th April 2019
  #35
Gear Addict
 

Without the tone quality, all guitars would sound the same

Tone and playability are the 2 most important things to me on any guitar (electric, acoustic, classical)
Old 18th April 2019
  #36
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Mikhael's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post
I listened to the IOU album endlessly after it came out. On it, he used a very rare solid-state amp by Hartley Thompson. I saw the same amp for sale only once. I was tempted, but the one thing that would least help me to sound like Allan Holdsworth would be using the same gear.
Yep. When he was endorsing Pearce amps, I decided to look one up and see what the fuss was about. I ended up buying it, and still use it to this day. No, I don't sound a damn bit like Holdsworth when I play on it, but I do sound like the best me I've heard.

But no matter what equipment I use, I'm never gonna sound like Holdsy, since I'm missing the prime component of his tone: Allan Holdsworth.
Old 18th April 2019
  #37
I'm a keyboard player and my tube amps all say the same thing that yes it matters. Tone is like the sunlight reflecting off an object, lack of tone is like LED lights bouncing off an object. Good tone just sounds natural and without it your always searching trying to fill that lack. There many pianos around the world in living rooms, concert halls, on stage all with their own tone and character and these pianos have been crafted with great care and love for those with ears to hear.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #38
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I am a former metal guitar player, and some time ago I moved to electronic music production. And the same question is rising again, since a lead synth sound is somewhat similar to a high-gain guitar - it can be variied in several aspects, and still is a lead synth sound. Also it's role in the music is more or less similar - a metalcore guitar, which substitute the melodic voice by playing riffs is in principle the same as a lead synth in a bigroom-drop, which substitutes the human-voice chorus.

And even more like before (since changing the guitar sound often came with "buying a new amp" or at least "buying a new pedal", whereas changing a synth sound is often just tweaking a bit), I am now asking myself the question: how much time should I invest in Sounddesign, and does it even matter? Would a hit record of Avicii still be a hit, if he had chosen a different lead-synth-preset?

My recent opinion is, that at least in these two genres (metalcore and bigroom/house) within a wide range of boundaries (were the sound starts to get annoying or muddy) the sound is not really important, but can be used as a signature sound for to make the audience directly recognize who is the artist as soon as the guitar/synth starts playing.

But I am not sure about this...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #39
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Mikhael's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julez View Post
And even more like before (since changing the guitar sound often came with "buying a new amp" or at least "buying a new pedal", whereas changing a synth sound is often just tweaking a bit), I am now asking myself the question: how much time should I invest in Sounddesign, and does it even matter? Would a hit record of Avicii still be a hit, if he had chosen a different lead-synth-preset?

My recent opinion is, that at least in these two genres (metalcore and bigroom/house) within a wide range of boundaries (were the sound starts to get annoying or muddy) the sound is not really important, but can be used as a signature sound for to make the audience directly recognize who is the artist as soon as the guitar/synth starts playing.

But I am not sure about this...
This is mostly the point I was getting to; as long as your tone is good enough to get your point across, will your audience notice or care about the slight difference in tone between magnets in your pickups? Or the difference the body wood makes?

Or do you get to the point where you say, "this tone is acceptable. Now I need to stop screwing around with the tools, and get down to the business of creating some music."

I've pretty much reached that point myself; I haven't bought a new amp or guitar in years, and I'm pretty much done researching pickups and whatnot. I do keep my stuff in good condition, meaning I haul out the soldering iron and repair crap every now'n'then, tweak a trussrod, or level frets, that sort of thing. Yes, I watch the new stuff coming out, but so far none of it has peaked my interest enough to investigate further.

I don't think I've reached any pinnacle of tone, but I sound like me when I play, and the tone is good for what I do. That's why I asked; I'm curious if anyone else has hit that point. Does my intended audience care that much about my tone? It seems it's good for them as well, according to the comments I hear.

I just wonder when the Search for Tone turns into Chasing your Tail...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #40
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ponzi's Avatar
For people like me who find practicing a little stressful, its a lot easier to spend countless hours in the pursuit of tone. I had kind of an awakening when I was watching a movie about how deep purple recorded Machine Head. One of them was at a 48 channel mix desk and running faders up and down to show how each instrument sounded. The guitar tone had been EQed to the point where it sounded very different from a strat into a guitar amp. I concluded that to create the optimal tone for the mix, the guitar tone was drastically changed until it made the right contribution. So, moral of the story, all that tube-rolling, speaker changing, searching for perfect imitation of old amp, or high cost boutique amp--once it gets molded into something that fits with the rest of the channels--those little 5% type nuances are not recognizable, so the quest was sort of pointless.

So, I interpret the OPs thesis is that people give way too much credence to guitar and amp tone--or invest time and money that will not pay off in the face of mediocre playing. I suspect that is true. And a second point, in one discussion someone was asking about Jimi Hendrix pedal chain, and one response was "If you want to sound like Hendrix, play like Hendrix". I saw one Hendrix performance where he had a wall of fender amps rather than Marshall--tone was way different but the playing was still magically fluid--and again my insight was that a very different concert tone was enjoyable in its own way--and very portable from the tone of the equipment.

I also have enjoyed some of the raw mixes from zeppelin and some studio bootlegs, and again, the raw mix often sounds like a human voice and guitar/amp sounds are recognizable to me fro hearing gear in person, but the final mixing process turns them into tones very different from anything I have heard.

Also, to acknowledge a very dark elephant that I see in the room--after aggressive digital limiting to make a song sound 'loud' as the other songs, or more modern sounding--how much difference do those $8,000 mics and fancy mixing desks make after the signal is distorted so significantly. Some of these re-mastered CDs from the 70s, I can't even listen to due to the digital distortion and listening fatigue. Also, when all is the same volume, there can be little emotional arc to the song, no build up. Not a mix or mastering expert by any means, but I do feel as a consumer, I can distinguish an irritating product versus a pleasant sounding one. This subject is much discussed under the heading 'loudness wars', and many mastering types lament the bad sound quality they are forced to impose due to the client insisting that their song sound louder than other songs when played in a club rotation or the like. No need to say more, its been said a lot.

So, hardware hunting is fun, but no substitute for chops, and maybe even a distraction--since I don't earn a living by my first love, music, I have more money than talent, so tone hunting distracted me from chops.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #41
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julez View Post
...And even more like before (since changing the guitar sound often came with "buying a new amp" or at least "buying a new pedal", whereas changing a synth sound is often just tweaking a bit), I am now asking myself the question: how much time should I invest in Sounddesign, and does it even matter? Would a hit record of Avicii still be a hit, if he had chosen a different lead-synth-preset?...
I am going this direction as well, and I do note that in electronic music, a lot of the time there is very slow melodic movement and much of what retains listening interest is varying the tone over time--filter automation and 100 other things. So, sound design is sort of important.

On the other hand I also feel I have so many synth options and so many presets, that goofing around with that stuff--and even listening to all the options I have--can drain the creative process. I have heard of some EDM types talk about how old samplers with limited controls to play with were fun to master and get in with the music. When the synth/sampler became electronic with 100 times more controls and options, it seemed to hurt their creative process. So, I think there is a middle ground here.

One thing I think about electronic produced music is that playing virtuosity is rarely on display, and most of the action is in the tone.

No expert, just some thoughts I have had. Yes, regrettably, I think more than I do.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #42
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astrolabesoul's Avatar
Tone is EVERYTHING.

If you are a virtuoso you might be able to completely disregard tone,
but even still why would you?

Fuzzy ("blocky" distortion)
Filtered
Warmth-"vintage"
(If creamy means that sharp scratch splatty fuzzy metal distortion sound...)
Then THAT! Definitely that. Hnnng!

Even reverbed
Octaved
Doubled/multiplied
FX are apart of tone are they not?

Delay can certainly be used to create artificial "acoustics" which cross over well into tone.

Phasers and flangers definitely change tone (through filtering and grit), while creating movement and modulation.

If you don't consider modulation and time fx as tone that's fine ( I disagree there's nuance to everything, remember that!), but
grit is definitely tone.

I know what you are truly referring to though...
Guitar, amp, and cab tone...
and yes it matters in the same way.

For example: Metal amps and cabs do specific things psycho-acoustically for metal music.
Guitars, tone wood (is real), pick up, amps, and cabinets are set up in some sort of arbitrary way for specific styles, or relative versatility. (Picks and guitar technique definitely do matter.

To make best use of what you got here's my advice.

The trick for finding yourself (tone searching) with what you have is to craft the envelope and the frequencies of the guitar sound going into your amp&cab.
This is an expression of yourself, and what you want to hear/sounds best in your identity, your creative direction, your soul tone

You want your tone to relate to the style you play.
Luckily you can use the aforementioned grit and gain tools to EQ and Filter (toneshape).

If you happen to be a barebones kinda guitarist, you might still want to look into using EQs, boosts, pre-amps, and filters to craft a sound that is you.

You can still be clean, you can still be old school, and craft yourself a sound.

Most amps have tone-shaping settings. (Mine doesn't it is a VHT 6 watt. [into a Peavey Valveking 4x12)

All of my power comes from pedals, which . Which is really rad. It spreads my tone which is a wonderful thing. It's not thin, it's not hissy, its, not too stark. It's just right. It is "wide" enough, it has a subtle "air" to it and it is so so dirty.

Perfect rhythm, perfect leads. and that's why tone shaping is good even for blues and jazz styles.

*Pedal advice*
It is also wise to not set any gain/grit pedal's volume setting past 10 o'clock. You'll thank me later for that! Boost is different than volume, you can crank it! (I don't go past 4 o'clock usually though). Most pedals are set up similarly. It's math/science/music.

Old 4 weeks ago
  #43
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
This is mostly the point I was getting to; as long as your tone is good enough to get your point across, will your audience notice or care about the slight difference in tone between magnets in your pickups? Or the difference the body wood makes?

Or do you get to the point where you say, "this tone is acceptable. Now I need to stop screwing around with the tools, and get down to the business of creating some music."

I've pretty much reached that point myself; I haven't bought a new amp or guitar in years, and I'm pretty much done researching pickups and whatnot. I do keep my stuff in good condition, meaning I haul out the soldering iron and repair crap every now'n'then, tweak a trussrod, or level frets, that sort of thing. Yes, I watch the new stuff coming out, but so far none of it has peaked my interest enough to investigate further.

I don't think I've reached any pinnacle of tone, but I sound like me when I play, and the tone is good for what I do. That's why I asked; I'm curious if anyone else has hit that point. Does my intended audience care that much about my tone? It seems it's good for them as well, according to the comments I hear.

I just wonder when the Search for Tone turns into Chasing your Tail...
Sounds like you are looking to justify limiting expenditure and satisfying your GAS.
Do a recording of your new song, or a favorite song. Record it first with your setup using what is , in your opinion, an optimal tone. Then record it with what is a generic tone. Listen to the results , and also let your friends/family comment on the recordings, stating their preferences (in terms of feel, emotional effect) without you explaining where the differences are. Analyse the results both in terms of your preferences as well as your audience's. This should give you some indication whether the tone makes a difference.
You should not judge by instrument's virtuosity (which can be very self-indulgent like AH's music discussed above), but by how the tone affects the emotional content of the arrangement.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #44
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audioforce's Avatar
 

3.5 shark thread designation, at least. Probably closer to 4, but I'm kind of being conservative, since its really just getting rolling.



Stay in the cage,


audioforce
Old 4 weeks ago
  #45
Gear Head
 

I think i think () that if the riff is great, i'll want to learn it with the tone it was played with. That 'tone' then becomes a good 'tone' because it's synonymous with that great riff.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #46
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Mikhael's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Sounds like you are looking to justify limiting expenditure and satisfying your GAS...
You should not judge by instrument's virtuosity (which can be very self-indulgent like AH's music discussed above), but by how the tone affects the emotional content of the arrangement.
Nope. I just haven't found anything better for me in the past few years. I keep abreast of new developments, and most do nothing for me. Although I do run DI a lot, I'm not a modeling kinda guy; I prefer knobs doing analogue things for amplification. My guitars do what I want (outside of the nut being too narrow, but they all are), so I rarely buy anything (outside of PA or recording needs).

Have I simply reached the pinnacle of tone? I seriously doubt it. But chasing that rabbit has gotten old, and has resulted in very little useful change recently. I find I need to concentrate on getting those fingers moving more.

I think Holdsworth's tone was beautiful, and suits his music (which I do NOT find self-indulgent as you seem to suggest). Many people overlook his clean tone and chord movement for the incredible lead work, but one is as necessary and fascinating as the other. I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #47
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ponzi's Avatar
I don't think anybody was saying to ignore tone nor to be satisfied with a mediocre one. I certainly wasn't. My thought is to get a good amp and a good guitar, and focus on playing skill. To me, that means an american strat, tele, les paul or prs, or something of equivalent quality (and I imagine many would want both single coil and humbicking in their arsenal), and a less than 100 watt tube amp suitable for studio use that costs between $1,000 and $2,000, and a couple of versatile pedals. Once you have that, I imagine a very nice tone is well within reach--but perhaps not the exact tone one has heard on a favorite song. Yet a tone capable of conveying emotion to the listener when the playing is done right.

As someone who has spent too much time and money on a tone quest, that is my conclusion learned the hard way. I have gone trough tons of really nice amps and quite a few guitars over the years, when I would have been better suited to just take a good amp and guitar and leave it at that. This is from an admittedly non-professional musician, so I certainly don't bring any authority to my opinions, I can only share what I think makes sense.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #48
My groove tubes brick tube preamp took away the linearity (the only way I can describe it) of my digital synth. I got the great idea of chaining two of them together to run the signal through twice the amount of tubes. It might lose some high frequency shine but gains some tone, hard to explain but easily understood. So it's really the vibe your looking for, but I try to have 1 track with really nice tone and everything else can be digital or whatever.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #49
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audioforce's Avatar
 

Please allow me to settle this once and for all.

Tone matters.

Case in point: [After you click play, you have to click the "Watch on Youtube link" to see the video]








Best,

audioforce
Old 4 weeks ago
  #50
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
Nope. I just haven't found anything better for me in the past few years. I keep abreast of new developments, and most do nothing for me. Although I do run DI a lot, I'm not a modeling kinda guy; I prefer knobs doing analogue things for amplification. My guitars do what I want (outside of the nut being too narrow, but they all are), so I rarely buy anything (outside of PA or recording needs).

Have I simply reached the pinnacle of tone? I seriously doubt it. But chasing that rabbit has gotten old, and has resulted in very little useful change recently. I find I need to concentrate on getting those fingers moving more.

I think Holdsworth's tone was beautiful, and suits his music (which I do NOT find self-indulgent as you seem to suggest). Many people overlook his clean tone and chord movement for the incredible lead work, but one is as necessary and fascinating as the other. I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one.
Not all new tech is a panacea for better tone. Some are there to make people's life easier, but can be detrimental to the tone at the same time. Some are just flashy devices, which feed GAS but do very little in musical terms. Some pretend to be the best recreation of an old device (why, if you already have the old device?). Some digitally "model" other devices (and its never like the analog, but the idea of "more rather then "quality" sells)
You have your idea of sounds which suit your music. Great, you have all the tools for your tone, the new stuff is just a curiosity, not necessity. You can be curious but do not have to chase a new buy unless you require a change to the tone you use.
WRT to AH: His music can appeal to you, and his tone suits his music very well. However you are in a tiny minority. Most people out there did not enjoy his music, and had no time to appreciate his music's complexity or his virtuosity. That's why I call it self-indulgent. As for me I enjoy the music of VERY few guitar virtuoso's. They are entertainers - they should entertain their audience, not not confuse them with their technical prowess.
One of my favorite pieces of music is the theme from "Schindler's List" .Pearlman is a virtuoso, but instead of dazzling his audience with technique, he played this simple piece of music with such grace and feeling, that I want to cry every time I hear it. THAT is true virtuosity
Old 4 weeks ago
  #51
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
If you want the best tone you have to play amps and guitars from the 50's/60's and preferably with a tape echo but an original fender tube spring unit is also acceptable.

These are facts. It's 10k entry into the club but maybe less if you wear a hat and bolo tie.

The next best option is a lawsuit axe, jazz chorale amp and a multihead echo. I didn't make the rules I just follow them, boutique is for clothes not for tone.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #52
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwhistle View Post
If you want the best tone you have to play amps and guitars from the 50's/60's and preferably with a tape echo but an original fender tube spring unit is also acceptable.

These are facts. It's 10k entry into the club but maybe less if you wear a hat and bolo tie.

The next best option is a lawsuit axe, jazz chorale amp and a multihead echo. I didn't make the rules I just follow them, boutique is for clothes not for tone.
I would politely disagree :-)
We have a "small" collection of guitars, amps, pedals... There are many modern amps which are very well made (probably better then my 50's, 60's and 70's amps, and under the right circumstances provide just the right tone the customer is looking for.
Yes vintage gear has its own charm but there are other options "to skin the tone cat"
Old 4 weeks ago
  #53
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
I would politely disagree :-)
We have a "small" collection of guitars, amps, pedals... There are many modern amps which are very well made (probably better then my 50's, 60's and 70's amps, and under the right circumstances provide just the right tone the customer is looking for.
Yes vintage gear has its own charm but there are other options "to skin the tone cat"
Yeah don't take me seriously mate.

I'll use anything that works.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #54
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ponzi's Avatar
Tone is a key element of this song:



PS. I get paid to do the wild thing!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #55
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To the general listener no. Theres alot of bands that sold millions of records that have ****ty tone. Especially over chorused 80’s crap and nu metal. Does great tone make a good song better yes. I think duane allman srv clapton and those guys are amazing. But jimmy page and iack white and randy rhoades don’t have the best tone. But the make up for it with aggression. But i find guys like eric johnson freaking out about rf freqency and certain batteries and all that laughable. No body gives a **** if your using duracell or energizer dude
Old 4 weeks ago
  #56
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Yeah van halen has great tone


Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Tone is a key element of this song:



PS. I get paid to do the wild thing!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #57
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boomer81 View Post
To the general listener no. Theres alot of bands that sold millions of records that have ****ty tone. Especially over chorused 80’s crap and nu metal. Does great tone make a good song better yes. I think duane allman srv clapton and those guys are amazing. But jimmy page and iack white and randy rhoades don’t have the best tone. But the make up for it with aggression. But i find guys like eric johnson freaking out about rf freqency and certain batteries and all that laughable. No body gives a **** if your using duracell or energizer dude
I actually think that Clapton strat tone sucks. SRV's tone is a bit boring. But that's me. May be because Clapton's music in his strat era does not appeal to me. And because SRV was emulating someone else?

OTOH, can you imagine Jack Whites music sounding better with any other tone? Or LP music sounding different/better with a different JPage tone?
I can't comment on EJ - i find his music run-off-the mill. But his tone suits what he does. His obsession with batteries - I know that butteries affect fuzz and wah big-time. With modern active pickups, buffers.. past wah, fuzz.. it makes no difference that I can hear. But then fuzz past a buffer sounds horrible (unless thats what you want :-) )
Old 4 weeks ago
  #58
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Tone is a key element of this song:



PS. I get paid to do the wild thing!
I like the tone - it has to be a majic-mic!! Gotta get myself one of those :_)
OTOH I find the boring skirts to be a non-musical emulation to the Peter Gabriel's original. Nothing beats an original red dress!!!! Its like a Kemper to the real amp !!!!!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
Are we those people who can't see the forest for the trees? Do we get so deep into the details that we forget that the overall goal is to make music?
The goal IS to make music!

Many ways, many methods.

http://vintagetubeservices.com

Tube Tonal Balance Profile Diagram
Below is an illustration of Symphony Hall Boston with relative tonal balances of the main brands of tubes as it would relate to sitting placement in the hall. As you would hear sitting towards the rear of the hall, the Mullard and other British tubes have the deepest darkest tonal balance. As you would hear sitting towards the front of the hall, the perspective is lighter and more close up with the West German and Dutch tubes. Strangely, this seems to go by geography and seems to be set mainly by the chemistry in the tubes.

Old 3 weeks ago
  #60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwhistle View Post
If you want the best tone you have to play amps and guitars from the 50's/60's and preferably with a tape echo but an original fender tube spring unit is also acceptable.

These are facts. It's 10k entry into the club but maybe less if you wear a hat and bolo tie.
Not for me! 10K and my wife would kill me and sue for divorce!
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