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Help Deciding on what Fender Twin! Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 3rd April 2019
  #1
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Help Deciding on what Fender Twin!

Hi there. So the title of this thread is pretty self explanatory. I'm looking at buying a fender twin and find a few options to choose from and wanted some opinions. The first one is an 81 twin with evm 12l speakers for 580. The second is a 73 twin with new speakers (not sure what are in them). And the last one is a stock 74 twin. Just looking for opinions for that great fender clean tone!

I guess my main question is, is there any disadvantages of the 81 twin compared to the ones made in the 70s? I'm leaning more towards that one since it is so cheap

Thanks!
Old 3rd April 2019
  #2
Gear Nut
You have to figure out what you want to do with your twin. They are loud animals and the 1981 twin is likely an Ultralinear twin at 135 watt!! It will stay clean until your ears start to bleed. Of course you could use a pedals to dirty your tone.

The earlier version will still be very loud but may break-up a tad earlier. I have been told that the ultra-linear are more difficult to modify if you want to revert your Twin to blackface specs.

So unless you are looking for ultra-clean, I would go with the old Twin. Are the speaker suspension still good after all those years? Should be inspected.

Dan
Old 3rd April 2019
  #3
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There's a great reference for figuring these things out, called the Fender Amp Field Guide. The Fender Amp Field Guide

If you want to get some "edge of breakup" character, I would agree that the earlier models are probably more what you are looking for. Also, get a tech who will bias the amp hotter for you. Especially the Blackface or "blackfaced" models should start breaking up before 5 if they are sympathetically biased. Techs seem to assume that anyone who has a twin wants it to be cold-biased so that it will give you maximum headroom. It doesn't have to be that way.

OTOH, if you really are just looking for miles and miles of clean, Fender sound, you may as well get the less expensive 1981 model with 135 watts of KRAAANG.
Old 3rd April 2019
  #4
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Can you find a Blackface?

Also, what are you going to use it for, and what do you plan to play through it?


Best,


audioforce
Old 3rd April 2019
  #5
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I'm mainly looking for a pedal platform for my amp so I would be running the amp clean. I'm currently playing a tele and mainly punk music as of now. The only blackface options in my price range would be used 65 reissues.
Old 3rd April 2019
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amoua390 View Post
I'm mainly looking for a pedal platform for my amp so I would be running the amp clean. I'm currently playing a tele and mainly punk music as of now. The only blackface options in my price range would be used 65 reissues.
Those reissues are actually pretty good, iirc. Twins are strange in some ways, like they can vary a good bit from amp to amp, especially the older ones. If you could try before you buy, that would be good.

All the silver face ones will do clean, but they can get a little irritating sometimes, and you're using a Tele.

For punk it seems to me you could use an amp that's not so ultra-clean, but you're the best judge of what works for your sound.

Off the top, I would say tend toward the older one [the stock one], if its all straight. And I would definitely try one of those reissues.

Most important, I really wouldn't recommend buying any old Twin Reverb without playing through it to make sure its doing what you need. They can vary a lot.

And, obviously, find out what kind of speakers are in the '73 you mentioned.

Finally [and I really don't mean to sidetrack you], are you totally set on a Twin Reverb? There are some other options that would probably be great for what you describe. An AC-30 [maybe one of those 90s reissues, even], or a VT-22 [Ampeg], or even a Marshall.

Good luck, and try before you buy, if possible.


Best,

audioforce
Old 4th April 2019
  #7
Gear Nut
Jazz Chorus 120 would be better

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amoua390 View Post
I'm mainly looking for a pedal platform for my amp so I would be running the amp clean. I'm currently playing a tele and mainly punk music as of now. The only blackface options in my price range would be used 65 reissues.
If you are looking for a clean platform you should buy a used Roland Jazz Chorus 120. It is the king of clean and, in my opinion, it will be more reliable than an old Twin tube amp. It takes pedals well enough and you will be perfect for punk style whn played clean.

Dan
Old 4th April 2019
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amoua390 View Post
Hi there. So the title of this thread is pretty self explanatory. I'm looking at buying a fender twin and find a few options to choose from and wanted some opinions. The first one is an 81 twin with evm 12l speakers for 580. The second is a 73 twin with new speakers (not sure what are in them). And the last one is a stock 74 twin. Just looking for opinions for that great fender clean tone!

I guess my main question is, is there any disadvantages of the 81 twin compared to the ones made in the 70s? I'm leaning more towards that one since it is so cheap

Thanks!
I play outdoor venues with a '75 Silverface Twin. I have the sound company mic it. I sidewash it just as a stage monitor.

I'd rather have a '60s Blackface, but it doesn't matter playing mic'd gigs.

If I were you I'd go with the '74.
Old 4th April 2019
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amoua390 View Post
Hi there. So the title of this thread is pretty self explanatory. I'm looking at buying a fender twin and find a few options to choose from and wanted some opinions. The first one is an 81 twin with evm 12l speakers for 580. The second is a 73 twin with new speakers (not sure what are in them). And the last one is a stock 74 twin. Just looking for opinions for that great fender clean tone!

I guess my main question is, is there any disadvantages of the 81 twin compared to the ones made in the 70s? I'm leaning more towards that one since it is so cheap

Thanks!
which one do you like the sound? buy that one
Old 4th April 2019
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
which one do you like the sound? buy that one
And so what would you have him do?

Buy all of them and keep one? Not a practical idea.

Or trust online sounds of amps? An extremely bad idea.
Old 4th April 2019
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicTone View Post
And so what would you have him do?

Buy all of them and keep one? Not a practical idea.

Or trust online sounds of amps? An extremely bad idea.
Yes buy all three and test drive them, keep/buy the one that sounds the best. That is NOT a bad idea. Why would you listen to a bunch of people on an internet site which amp sounds the best? no one has even heard these amps, they have only heard amps similar to these amps.

Old Fenders are notoriously thin sounding due to the age of the caps, resistors and age of the transformers. Why would anyone take a chance buying a vintage amp without hearing it first? That IS a bad idea buying an amp without hearing it first. Even if these amps are mint NOS flawless sound, it doesn't guarantee a player is going to like the sound. I personally would never play though a Fender Twin. They don't sound as good as modern amps.
Old 4th April 2019
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
Yes buy all three and test drive them, keep/buy the one that sounds the best. That is NOT a bad idea. Why would you listen to a bunch of people on an internet site which amp sounds the best? no one has even heard these amps, they have only heard amps similar to these amps.

Old Fenders are notoriously thin sounding due to the age of the caps, resistors and age of the transformers. Why would anyone take a chance buying a vintage amp without hearing it first? That IS a bad idea buying an amp without hearing it first. even if these amps are mint NOS flawless sound, it doesn't guarantee a player is going to like the sound. I personally would never play though a Fender Twin. They don't sound as good as modern amps.
Even though I completely agree with you, (except for your opinion about the sound of Twins) and playing them all is what I would do, I'm just holding back on internet advice that could make a problematic turn.

Edit to add the the problematic turn: I assumed the OP was considering buying these amps from all over the country. Buying involves the payment for the amp, the shipping and then return shipping including the potential hassle of working out a return arrangement.
Old 4th April 2019
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Those reissues are actually pretty good,
I agree. They get a lot of flack, but much of it undeserved. I've currently got 60's Deluxes and Vibrolux Reverb and have had about fifteen 60's blackface Fenders over the years.

And I've also got a reissue blond tolex BF Deluxe that was made in 1994, and a newer re-issue blackface. The 64 Vibrolux beats them all, IMO, but all very good amps, both the original 60's and the reissues. I'll gig with any of them.
Old 4th April 2019
  #14
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enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
Yes buy all three and test drive them, keep/buy the one that sounds the best. That is NOT a bad idea. Why would you listen to a bunch of people on an internet site which amp sounds the best? no one has even heard these amps, they have only heard amps similar to these amps.
Absolutely GREAT advice. That' nails it right there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
Old Fenders are notoriously thin sounding due to the age of the caps, resistors and age of the transformers. Why would anyone take a chance buying a vintage amp without hearing it first? That IS a bad idea buying an amp without hearing it first. Even if these amps are mint NOS flawless sound, it doesn't guarantee a player is going to like the sound. I personally would never play though a Fender Twin. They don't sound as good as modern amps.
Well...sorta almost good advice. Yes, caps, and specifically electrolytic caps NOT non-polarized caps, can dry out and become problematic with age. I have a few Fender amps made in the 50s and 60s with some original electrolytic caps that spec out just fine and sound great. Granted the percentages are not high. Maybe 15-20% of those old caps last with full spec to the present but some do and they are the only things that age in an amp just from time alone. Well... technically some larger speakers can experience some cone sag but that depends on more than just time. Climate is a factor there.

Resistors do not age. Transformers do not age. Those are definitely not factors but since you mentioned again the nearly 100% accurate POV of always listen to an amp before you buy one, I will also repeat, that is superb advice.

OTOH you really have to be kidding with this bias you have against Fender as being "thin". Here's a 1960 4x10 Bassman with a Strat sounding very much like a 50 watt Marshall or don't you agree?



Twins, being twice the Bassman's power and a bit less "sparkle" on top, are even fatter.
Old 4th April 2019
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
Absolutely GREAT advice. That' nails it right there.
Thanks, I thought you would appreciate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
Resistors do not age. Transformers do not age. Those are definitely not factors but since you mentioned again the nearly 100% accurate POV of always listen to an amp before you buy one, I will also repeat, that is superb advice.
They do age you are wrong. If they didn't age all fenders would sound the same, and they don't. You equate it to the "tubes aren't matched" or the " Biasing is off" or "You are not using monster cable".

read this it explains how older transformers and resistors can go bad or vary in sound with age: When Good Amps Go Bad

not to mention core material in transformers and inductors vary with extreme age. Some of those amps are 50 -60 years old
Old 4th April 2019
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTheMan06 View Post
If you are looking for a clean platform you should buy a used Roland Jazz Chorus 120. It is the king of clean and, in my opinion, it will be more reliable than an old Twin tube amp. It takes pedals well enough and you will be perfect for punk style whn played clean.

Dan
I've got a 74 twin, JC120 & JC77.

I'd take the twin in most cases for guitar. The JC amps are hissy things which could be a major turn off for a lot of players.
Old 4th April 2019
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
They do age you are wrong. If they didn't age all fenders would sound the same, and they don't. You equate it to the "tubes aren't matched" or the " Biasing is off" or "You are not using monster cable".
That is a non sequitur and circular "logic"... meaning one does not follow the other, that the conclusion is assumed in the premise. There are many reasons all amps don't sound the same and this is true right off the factory floor.. One reason on older amps is 10% tolerance carbon resistors and 20% tolerance caps and speccing for a plus or minus 20% variation in most voltages. It's written right on the schematics. Another is inconsistency of suppliers. Components were pretty well consistent for most of Fender's history but even they had to switch either suppliers or items according to the market and availability.

I have no idea where you got the "matching", "biasing" or "monster cable" comment unless it was just inserted by you to setup your LOL which is totally a flop as you will see if you pay any attention to the evidence.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
read this it explains how older transformers and resistors can go bad or vary in sound with age: When Good Amps Go Bad

not to mention core material in transformers and inductors vary with extreme age. Some of those amps are 50 -60 years old
I have extensive training and experience with these components in use and on the bench starting around 1960 to the Present but I read what you linked anyway just to see what it had to say. Apparently I got something different from it than you and it matches my experience, not your assumptions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir's linked page
Resistors

Usually pretty stable and reliable, resistors can be the cause of several problems. One of these is a crackling noise which results from moisture being trapped inside older carbon composition resistors (usually in the plate load position of the circuit). <insert - from the time of manufacture, not age> Replacement with a carbon or metal film type will cure this. Other resistor failures can be related to high temperature, over-voltage, or over-current, though most amps are designed with the components overrated for these 3 factors.<insert - caused by a condition unrelated to age but rather a failure in the circuit>

Transformers


All in all, guitar amp transformers are robust and very reliable. In the hundreds of amps we have repaired, only a few transformers were the cause of any problems. The typical transformer fault occurs when a winding opens up, usually due to an over-current, over-voltage or overheating condition; less common is a shorted winding resulting from the same "over" conditions. Both are usually "indirect" failures, caused by something else (a tube, capacitor, wiring) failing and generating the initial fault. There are two repair methods for defective transformers (once the underlying cause has been isolated and repaired); replacement or rewinding. Replacement is an option when an identical or very close substitution is available, but this may not be possible or desirable. Rewinding, though sometimes more costly than replacement, guarantees retaining the exact electrical specifications and physical dimensions of the original. It is also the best option when you wish to retain originality. <insert - completely not age related but caused by circuit failure in other areas>

Just in case you missed my <inserts> neither resistors nor transformers are said to be compromised by time alone. In every case they are compromised by some other component failure or condition other than mere time, usually heat, often caused by over voltage or over current conditions

So take this as gospel since there is literally ZERO doubt. Resistors and Transformers are not compromised by age alone. Period. If you were so lucky as to discover a Fender amp built in 1957 still in it's unopened original carton the electrolytic capacitors might be bad, and
actually would have better odds than not of being off spec and irretrievably bad, but even that is not a certainty. I know this because as I've said, I have some far less than pristine that still work fine with the originals...still well within spec and sound quality.

That is it!! No other parts would have any likelihood of being in any worse condition than the day it was finished other than, also as I said, the speaker especially on larger sizes like 15s and then only under some conditions of climate.

From both a theory and experience perspective this is absolutely a fact with the only possible exception of the amp having been stored in a black metal shed in Siberia.
Old 6th April 2019
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTheMan06 View Post
If you are looking for a clean platform you should buy a used Roland Jazz Chorus 120. It is the king of clean and, in my opinion, it will be more reliable than an old Twin tube amp. It takes pedals well enough and you will be perfect for punk style whn played clean.

Dan
Punk "clean" isn't that clean - I would not use a JC 120 for punk, even clean punk.

As to reliability, well, Twin Reverbs are pretty reliable. And when older (or newer) JC120s break down they're a LOT harder to service.

The one thing I've been wondering about is whether you really need all the power of a Twin Reverb, which is a really loud amp. I was thinking that you might consider the Twin's oft-overlooked little brother, the Pro Reverb, which is essentially the same amp but with half the power - 40 to 65 watts, depending on the exact model instead of 88 to 140 watts.
Old 6th April 2019
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post

They do age you are wrong. If they didn't age all fenders would sound the same, and they don't. You equate it to the "tubes aren't matched" or the " Biasing is off" or "You are not using monster cable".

read this it explains how older transformers and resistors can go bad or vary in sound with age: When Good Amps Go Bad

not to mention core material in transformers and inductors vary with extreme age. Some of those amps are 50 -60 years old
Oddly enough, for once you are right - mostly.

Pressed carbon (composite) resistors do in fact change value with age, especially when subjected to heat. How much depends on the manufacturer and the specific part. I've seen plenty of 10% tolerance carbon resistors that were 20%,30%, even occasionally 50% off value. Usually by that time the resistor will also have developed a significant thermal noise problem though, which generally causes them to be replaced. Metal film resistors do not drift off tolerance and do not usually develop noise problems, however they don't sound the same as carbons, they're "cleaner". Carbon film resistors are somewhere between pressed composite and metal film in both sound and reliability.

With transformers it depends on the manufacturer and sometimes the particular product line. What causes transformers to age is generally degradation of the wire's insulation with time and heat and the type of potting material used. Many older, less expensive transformers were potted with wax, which melts when it gets hot and can flow out of the transformers coils and housing. This leads to problems like physical buzzing end eventual failure of the transformer. Core material generally does not degrade. Generally speaking, age does not affect the audio quality of a transformer until it fails or nears the point of failure.

Capacitors can change value over time, depending on type. The various plastic types are much more stable than their paper and oil or wax counterparts but even those can eventually go off tolerance or become leaky - electrically, not physically. Some plastic types are more stable than others. Electrolytics go bad. If an electrolytic has been used and then the equipment it's in is unused for a significant time the electrolytic will often fail - electrolytic like to be charged up on at least a semi-regular basis.

That Analog Bros article is pretty simplistic.

BTW, you omitted the words "and use" after the word "age". Twice.

The only parts that I know of that go bad over time without use are electrolytic capacitors.

Last edited by John Eppstein; 6th April 2019 at 11:26 PM..
Old 7th April 2019
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Punk "clean" isn't that clean - I would not use a JC 120 for punk, even clean punk.

As to reliability, well, Twin Reverbs are pretty reliable. And when older (or newer) JC120s break down they're a LOT harder to service.

The one thing I've been wondering about is whether you really need all the power of a Twin Reverb, which is a really loud amp. I was thinking that you might consider the Twin's oft-overlooked little brother, the Pro Reverb, which is essentially the same amp but with half the power - 40 to 65 watts, depending on the exact model instead of 88 to 140 watts.
John, I've always meant to ask you, since you were in SF in the day, what are your favorite amps now, and have your favorites changed from the '60s?

John Cipollina is up in my list of favorite guitarists of all time. I've read one of the amps he used was a Twin and he also used a Dual Showman. John Cipollina played an SG (albeit with different pickups) and I must say the absolute best guitar tone I've ever heard in my life was (I won't mention names for privacy) was the best lead guitarist in Portland who I was fortunate to play with in the '60s. He played an SG into a blackface Twin dimed. It would make your ears bleed up close, but his rig in an arena venue was nowhere near loud enough. (I heard his Twin in the middle of the Portland Memorial Coliseum.) I've played a Dual Showman, it was incredibly loud and incredibly clean - too clean. John Cipollina obviously played a Dual Showman because it was loud

I'm rambling. My favorite amp of all time is a Twin.

John, what are your favorite amps?
Old 8th April 2019
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicTone View Post
John, I've always meant to ask you, since you were in SF in the day, what are your favorite amps now, and have your favorites changed from the '60s?

John Cipollina is up in my list of favorite guitarists of all time. I've read one of the amps he used was a Twin and he also used a Dual Showman. John Cipollina played an SG (albeit with different pickups) and I must say the absolute best guitar tone I've ever heard in my life was (I won't mention names for privacy) was the best lead guitarist in Portland who I was fortunate to play with in the '60s. He played an SG into a blackface Twin dimed. It would make your ears bleed up close, but his rig in an arena venue was nowhere near loud enough. (I heard his Twin in the middle of the Portland Memorial Coliseum.) I've played a Dual Showman, it was incredibly loud and incredibly clean - too clean. John Cipollina obviously played a Dual Showman because it was loud

I'm rambling. My favorite amp of all time is a Twin.

John, what are your favorite amps?
<chuckle>

I knew John in the last years before he died. Really nice guy, smoked way too many cigarettes, especially for somebody with congenital lung problems.

John did not use "a Twin" in his main rig, although he did in small clubs.

He used TWO Twins or a Twin and a Dual Showman. A Dual Showman is the same amp as a Twin except for the rerverb. And two Standel Super Imperial solid state amps, along with an array of Wurlitzer trumpet style horns from a theater organ. He had a complete set of very rare, nearly impossible to get (at the time, some have been made available in the last decade) schematics for the Standel amps, which he was going to give me copies of but he died before that came to fruition. AFAIK the pickups in his customized SG were stock Gibsons but may have been rewound, we never discussed it, but he was quite the tinkerer. Standel was the first successful maker of solid state guitar amps and were the ultimate in super clean tone. My first new amp was a Standel Studio 15 and when I was playing bass in a punk band in the '70s I used a '65 Super Imperial Bass with a 200 watt Altec "Green Monster" power amp as a booster for a total of 300 watts. John's Super Imperials were the guitar version with tremolo and reverb and were '64s, which (IIRC) were only 50 watts, but I could be mistaken about that. It doesn't matter that much because with the two JBL D130 15s they were LOUD. (My '65 had the slightly less powerful Altec 418 15s but I had JBLs in my slave enclosure.)

As to the question of my favorite amp, that's a toughie - I like many different amps for different things. I think the sweetest sounding guitar amp I've ever used would be the '63 Fender 4x10 Concert with Jensen roundbacks. I'm also quite fond of '64-'65 Super Reverbs, but the Concert had a certain undefinable sweetness to the tone. I also love the '63-'64 Vibroverb with a JBL D130 in it.

It's hard to say though because I love a bunch of other amps - late '50s 4x10 Bassmans and 3x10 Bandmasters, tweed Deluxes, Ampeg Reverberockets and Gemenis, '60s and '70s Marshalls... I got to play a very rare 18 watt Marshall combo amp the belonged to Jorma that was pretty amazing, don't remember the model number. Old Magnatones are amazing, but it can be difficult to find the correct Varistors to fix the true Vibrato, or at least used to be when I could afford to own one.

I used to like the original Sunn tube amps with the Dynaco power amp circuit except that they would really break up the way I wanted at the time (late '60s) unless they were REALLY cranked. I had a Solarus, which was a 40 watt, which was a vertically oriented 2x12 combo based on the Dyna MKIV power amp circuit and transformer set. The big Sunns were THE amps for bass in the later '60s before the SVT came out. I've always loved the Ampeg Portaflex B-15N and BN-18N, although the B-15s weren't really loud enough for rock and roll after about '64 or '65 when people started going volume crazy, but you couldn't beat 'em for tone.

I could go on and on, but I think that's probably enough for now. I know I'm forgetting something.

P.S. There's also Skip Spence's early Dumble, which was 4 modified 4x10 Bassmans in one chassis (that weighed about 2 tons) that Howard (not yet known as Alexander) had worked his voodoo on. That was one of 3 built for Moby Grape...
Old 8th April 2019
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
<chuckle>

I knew John in the last years before he died. Really nice guy, smoked way too many cigarettes, especially for somebody with congenital lung problems.

John did not use "a Twin" in his main rig, although he did in small clubs.

He used TWO Twins or a Twin and a Dual Showman. A Dual Showman is the same amp as a Twin except for the rerverb. And two Standel Super Imperial solid state amps, along with an array of Wurlitzer trumpet style horns from a theater organ. He had a complete set of very rare, nearly impossible to get (at the time, some have been made available in the last decade) schematics for the Standel amps, which he was going to give me copies of but he died before that came to fruition. AFAIK the pickups in his customized SG were stock Gibsons but may have been rewound, we never discussed it, but he was quite the tinkerer. Standel was the first successful maker of solid state guitar amps and were the ultimate in super clean tone. My first new amp was a Standel Studio 15 and when I was playing bass in a punk band in the '70s I used a '65 Super Imperial Bass with a 200 watt Altec "Green Monster" power amp as a booster for a total of 300 watts. John's Super Imperials were the guitar version with tremolo and reverb and were '64s, which (IIRC) were only 50 watts, but I could be mistaken about that. It doesn't matter that much because with the two JBL D130 15s they were LOUD. (My '65 had the slightly less powerful Altec 418 15s but I had JBLs in my slave enclosure.)

As to the question of my favorite amp, that's a toughie - I like many different amps for different things. I think the sweetest sounding guitar amp I've ever used would be the '63 Fender 4x10 Concert with Jensen roundbacks. I'm also quite fond of '64-'65 Super Reverbs, but the Concert had a certain undefinable sweetness to the tone. I also love the '63-'64 Vibroverb with a JBL D130 in it.

It's hard to say though because I love a bunch of other amps - late '50s 4x10 Bassmans and 3x10 Bandmasters, tweed Deluxes, Ampeg Reverberockets and Gemenis, '60s and '70s Marshalls... I got to play a very rare 18 watt Marshall combo amp the belonged to Jorma that was pretty amazing, don't remember the model number. Old Magnatones are amazing, but it can be difficult to find the correct Varistors to fix the true Vibrato, or at least used to be when I could afford to own one.

I used to like the original Sunn tube amps with the Dynaco power amp circuit except that they would really break up the way I wanted at the time (late '60s) unless they were REALLY cranked. I had a Solarus, which was a 40 watt, which was a vertically oriented 2x12 combo based on the Dyna MKIV power amp circuit and transformer set. The big Sunns were THE amps for bass in the later '60s before the SVT came out. I've always loved the Ampeg Portaflex B-15N and BN-18N, although the B-15s weren't really loud enough for rock and roll after about '64 or '65 when people started going volume crazy, but you couldn't beat 'em for tone.

I could go on and on, but I think that's probably enough for now. I know I'm forgetting something.

P.S. There's also Skip Spence's early Dumble, which was 4 modified 4x10 Bassmans in one chassis (that weighed about 2 tons) that Howard (not yet known as Alexander) had worked his voodoo on. That was one of 3 built for Moby Grape...
Thank you John.
Old 8th April 2019
  #23
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@ the OP

I think you are probably better off grabbing a used reissue blackface if you can't try the other's first, or at least get some way to return if you don't like [without having to pay a bunch of shipping].

That's just my opinion, and I sure hope you find the right amp, whatever you get.


Best,

audioforce
Old 8th April 2019
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
Y

I personally would never play though a Fender Twin. They don't sound as good as modern amps.
They are actually much better then many boutique amps for many things. Depends on the application
Old 8th April 2019
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
They are actually much better then many boutique amps for many things. Depends on the application
My first amp was a Fender twin and I could never get a good edgy sound out of it. When I was 13, I was in a classic rock cover band and the only song the twin ever worked on was Proud Mary by Credence. Without loads of pedals it was a one trick pony and a clean sterile pony at that. When I needed a big tone it just wasn't there. I bought a HIWatt Custom 100 and that was much better for bigger tones. Later I switched to Marshall and that was even bigger and more versatile. Eventually I bought a Hughes an Kettner 3 channel amp and it gave me the sound of all 3 of those other amps with no need for any pedals.

If you want just one sound and have it be a very clean vanilla sound, I guess twin is a good amp. Without pedals the amp is completely useless for a cover band situation. For original music it would be pretty boring and would not be versatile on its own. If you like pedals it is not a bad amp, but it is never going to give you a Big sound. It's a simple amp for simple vanilla tones.
Old 8th April 2019
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
My first amp was a Fender twin and I could never get a good edgy sound out of it. When I was 13, I was in a classic rock cover band and the only song the twin ever worked on was Proud Mary by Credence. Without loads of pedals it was a one trick pony and a clean sterile pony at that. When I needed a big tone it just wasn't there. I bought a HIWatt Custom 100 and that was much better for bigger tones. Later I switched to Marshall and that was even bigger and more versatile. Eventually I bought a Hughes an Kettner 3 channel amp and it gave me the sound of all 3 of those other amps with no need for any pedals.

If you want just one sound and have it be a very clean vanilla sound, I guess twin is a good amp. Without pedals the amp is completely useless for a cover band situation. For original music it would be pretty boring and would not be versatile on its own. If you like pedals it is not a bad amp, but it is never going to give you a Big sound. It's a simple amp for simple vanilla tones.

Operator error.

First, it sounds to me like your amp was biased incorrectly. Fender amps come from the factory biased cold, which delivers more power but isn't that great for tone.

Second, the stock "special design" (Oxford) speakers leave quite a bit to be desired for rock applications.

Third, you don't mention which version of the Twin you had. The 140 watt Ultralinear version is so powerful that you'll blow out the windows and your ear drums before you ever get it up to the point where it starts breaking up.

Fourth, I guess you never heard of pulling two of the output tubes to get a more manageable power level.

A Twin is actually a pretty versatile amp IF you know how to use it and set it up properly.
Old 8th April 2019
  #27
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Honestly, and I don't mean to muddy up someone's wish list, but a Twin Reverb is not the first thing that jumps to mind for punk.

And I like Twins, but they are kind of a one-trick pony, unless you are using a lot of effects and are able to really crank the amp.

If you get a good one, then they do sound pretty awesome if you can really step on it hard.

Then there's the fact that they are just "a lot of loud" for a combo amp. So, if you're gonna play it real loud, that amp is getting the sh*t shook out of it all the time, and that's probably at least one reason why some [many] of the old ones are fu*ked.

They are great amps for applications where you need a lot of headroom. Roots music, country, that type of thing.

Smaller Fenders are generally a better choice for rock.

But again, just my opinion. I don't really know but that a Twin may be perfect for the OPs application.


Best,

audioforce
Old 9th April 2019
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
A Twin is actually a pretty versatile amp IF you know how to use it and set it up properly.


Fender Twin has 2 sounds, Clean and cleaner, It's one sound John, It has no gain. It can get any crunch tone on it's own. Stop printing mis-information. The "Evil Twin" from the 90s had some gain but that was not a real twin. It still was wimpy.
Old 9th April 2019
  #29
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audioforce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post


Fender Twin has 2 sounds, Clean and cleaner, It's one sound John, It has no gain. It can get any crunch tone on it's own. Stop printing mis-information. The "Evil Twin" from the 90s had some gain but that was not a real twin. It still was wimpy.
You're kind of coming off like they're bad amps or something. They're not "bad amps", and a lot of good music has been made with Twin Reverbs. Just sayin'.



audioforce
Old 9th April 2019
  #30
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post


Fender Twin has 2 sounds, Clean and cleaner, It's one sound John, It has no gain. It can get any crunch tone on it's own. Stop printing mis-information. The "Evil Twin" from the 90s had some gain but that was not a real twin. It still was wimpy.
LOL it's not mis-information and definitely does not deserve facepalm.

Ya know what happens with a cranked twin & humbuckers? Live/dead tone. It's a beautiful thing.

Crawl back inside your cave for it was you who was wimpy, not the amp.

The trick to running a cranked twin is cutting the bass all the way off.
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