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Ampeg vt22 external amp jack question for experts 500 Series EQ\'s
Old 12th February 2019
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
There's one on any of the original diamond tolex fliptops . The first Ampeg guitar amps were all combos, then they brought out guitar versions of the B-15 and B-18 that had tremolo, reverb, and a speaker cab with an HF horn in it. The pop up on Ebay and Reverb, but only rarely.

I do not recall if the combo amps had record out jacks. I doubt it but it's possible.

The original designer and founder, Everett Hull, left Ampeg in 1968, shortly after the company was purchased by Unimusic, the holding company that owned it before Magnavox.

The original primary amp designer, Jess Oliver, left the company in 1966.
I know all about it, from the numerous Amps books and histories all over the web and just from experience. I'll post some links to stories and discussions and explanations about all that, including the "protective feature" for people who don't know better than to run a tube amp without a speaker load. LOL.

The original Fliptops weren't diamond telex. They were "Random Flair Tolex". The Blue Diamond Checkerboard stuff came later.

I don't believe any of them had a jack labeled "record out". Not saying people didn't use the jacks to send to the console, but they weren't labeled "record out" on anything I've ever heard about.

Do you have, or can you find, a picture you could share?


A Guide to the Golden Age of the Ampeg B-15: 1960-1980 | Reverb News

The Ampeg B-15 : From Inception To Resurrection - BassPlayer.com

"Ext Amp" jack on Ampeg B-15 | TalkBass.com

Ampeg B-15-N

And some pics. [ext. amp jacks]


cheers,


audioforce
Attached Thumbnails
Ampeg vt22 external amp jack question for experts-72b15n_07.jpg   Ampeg vt22 external amp jack question for experts-1338849629-img_0006.jpg   Ampeg vt22 external amp jack question for experts-cimg0618.jpg   Ampeg vt22 external amp jack question for experts-headrear.jpg  
Old 12th February 2019
  #32
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O.K., here's the manual from the old B12, B15, B18.

See bottom of page 2 - page 3 for info. on using ext. amp jack.



Best,

audioforce
Attached Files
File Type: pdf ampeg B15N B18N manual.pdf (3.81 MB, 6 views)
Old 12th February 2019
  #33
Old 13th February 2019
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
I don't believe any of them had a jack labeled "record out". Not saying people didn't use the jacks to send to the console, but they weren't labeled "record out" on anything I've ever heard about.

Do you have, or can you find, a picture you could share?

I was about to say, do I REALLY have to task a picture of the back of my B-18 for you? It will take a few days to get it to where I can photograph it.


The jack was conceived and labelled as a record out because the amps were originally intended for use by jazz players in the studio. When I was very young and somewhat stupid I used to wonder why Ampeg would put a record out jack on an amp, because I seemed to me that few people would use that feature. That was in my early teens, before I knew anything about recording studios. I also coudn't understand why Ampeg would use that "dumb", hard to find 4 pin for the speaker connection. It wasn't until about 7 years later (give or take) in the early '70s that I started learning about the real reasons fort that stuff.
Old 13th February 2019
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
I know all about it, from the numerous Amps books and histories all over the web and just from experience. I'll post some links to stories and discussions and explanations about all that, including the "protective feature" for people who don't know better than to run a tube amp without a speaker load. LOL.

The original Fliptops weren't diamond telex. They were "Random Flair Tolex". The Blue Diamond Checkerboard stuff came later.

I don't believe any of them had a jack labeled "record out". Not saying people didn't use the jacks to send to the console, but they weren't labeled "record out" on anything I've ever heard about.

Do you have, or can you find, a picture you could share?


A Guide to the Golden Age of the Ampeg B-15: 1960-1980 | Reverb News

The Ampeg B-15 : From Inception To Resurrection - BassPlayer.com

"Ext Amp" jack on Ampeg B-15 | TalkBass.com

Ampeg B-15-N

And some pics. [ext. amp jacks]


cheers,


audioforce
That guide from Reverb is not entirely accurate. Actually I noted many inaccuracies in Reverb's technical articles over the last couple of years.

Have not read through the others yet.
Old 13th February 2019
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
I was about to say, do I REALLY have to task a picture of the back of my B-18 for you? It will take a few days to get it to where I can photograph it.


The jack was conceived and labelled as a record out because the amps were originally intended for use by jazz players in the studio. When I was very young and somewhat stupid I used to wonder why Ampeg would put a record out jack on an amp, because I seemed to me that few people would use that feature. That was in my early teens, before I knew anything about recording studios. I also coudn't understand why Ampeg would use that "dumb", hard to find 4 pin for the speaker connection. It wasn't until about 7 years later (give or take) in the early '70s that I started learning about the real reasons fort that stuff.
Ha, lets see. First it was "all pre-Magnavox" ["transition"] Ampeg amps, then it was all "original diamond tolex flip tops" [the originals were "Random Navy Flair" telex], now its only your B18, which will "take a few days for you to get it to where you can photograph it". You're reaching, man. . Yours would be the only one like that. Maybe someone changed it. : )

Meanwhile, there are a gazillion pic of ancient B-x amps with ext. amp jacks and without "record out" jacks. And the ancient manual clearly designates "ext. amp".

I do agree and think that some people used the jacks to send to the console or multitask, though. From the beginning. It was Jazz and classical players using them mostly at first, but I think a lot of Motown stuff was recorded that way. I like the sound of the speaker cab myself, but direct is nice too.

I do also think its hilariously ironic that Everett Hull hated rock. That's priceless.

So anyhow, here's an actual first edition circa 1960 B-15 [not B-15N, but B-15]. Very first flip top iteration as first designed by Oliver. It has no ext. amp jack, no record out jack, nor any other kind of thing like that.

1960 Ampeg Portaflex B-15 - Rare Pre-B15N Model - Very Good | Reverb


cheers,

audioforce
Old 13th February 2019
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
That guide from Reverb is not entirely accurate. Actually I noted many inaccuracies in Reverb's technical articles over the last couple of years.

Have not read through the others yet.
I read a lot of stuff on the internet that's not entirely accurate. Even, believe it or not, on Gearslutz! Ha, ha.

The interview with Jess Oliver is probably accurate since it was his baby.


cheers,


audioforce
Old 13th February 2019
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Ha, lets see. First it was "all pre-Magnavox" ["transition"] Ampeg amps, then it was all "original diamond tolex flip tops" [the originals were "Random Navy Flair" telex], now its only your B18, which will "take a few days for you to get it to where you can photograph it". You're reaching, man. . Yours would be the only one like that. Maybe someone changed it. : )
Please stop being stupid - I have seen literally hundreds of B-15s and B-18s with the "Record Out" designation on the chassis. My B-18 is simply the only one I have access to at present.

You need to stop believing everything you read on the internet - a lot of it is revisionist stuff that is full of errors.

You referenced 4 articles.

Quote:
A Guide to the Golden Age of the Ampeg B-15: 1960-1980 | Reverb News

The Ampeg B-15 : From Inception To Resurrection - BassPlayer.com

"Ext Amp" jack on Ampeg B-15 | TalkBass.com

Ampeg B-15-N
1- Reverb - this article has inaccuracies, as do many of Reverb's technical an historical articles. I would never use Reverb articles as an authoritative source.

2- Bass Player. com - this one is actually pretty good, the best of the lot. It reminded me of some details I had forgotten, added a bit of info on the actual time line, especially concerning some of the "oddball" models, and is easily the best of the lot for general info. It does use the designation "line out" although the early models used "record out", which was the only error I noticed.

3 - Talkbass - This is a forum thread. As such it contains a certain amount of good info and a considerable amount of bad info. Not to be trusted.

4 - Premier Guitar - This is an article on the wiring of the 4-pin plug. It is accurate and covers BOTH VERSIONS of the protection system used in the 4 pin Ampeg amps. What it does not mention is that the original reason for it was to allow the preamp section to be used as a preamp for direct recording without having a speaker connected. But why should it? The article is about wiring, not history.

I'm getting really tired of your attitude in this conversation. I'll try to post a pic when I get around to it but I'm in no hurry, especially since you rather rudely suggested that I might have doctored the printing on the back of my all-original (except speaker) amplifier just to "win" an argument with you.

I'm not in any great hurry to tear apart our set rehearsal backline setup just to satisfy your smart-ass attitude though. I'd have to move other amps and a drum set to get to it and then put it all back which is a lot of effort just to give evidence to somebody who is just going to come back with a dumb smartass answer. And the B-18 is HEAVY for somebody with a heart condition.
Old 13th February 2019
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Ha, lets see. First it was "all pre-Magnavox" ["transition"] Ampeg amps, then it was all "original diamond tolex flip tops" [the originals were "Random Navy Flair" telex], now its only your B18, which will "take a few days for you to get it to where you can photograph it". You're reaching, man. . Yours would be the only one like that. Maybe someone changed it. : )

Meanwhile, there are a gazillion pic of ancient B-x amps with ext. amp jacks and without "record out" jacks. And the ancient manual clearly designates "ext. amp".

I do agree and think that some people used the jacks to send to the console or multitask, though. From the beginning. It was Jazz and classical players using them mostly at first, but I think a lot of Motown stuff was recorded that way. I like the sound of the speaker cab myself, but direct is nice too.

I do also think its hilariously ironic that Everett Hull hated rock. That's priceless.

So anyhow, here's an actual first edition circa 1960 B-15 [not B-15N, but B-15]. Very first flip top iteration as first designed by Oliver. It has no ext. amp jack, no record out jack, nor any other kind of thing like that.

1960 Ampeg Portaflex B-15 - Rare Pre-B15N Model - Very Good | Reverb


cheers,

audioforce
That's an amazingly good specimen of the first iteration of the B-15. It looks mint, or nearly so. Even has the original octal speaker plug, reminiscent of the plugs in a Hammond Organ.
Old 13th February 2019
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
That's an amazingly good specimen of the first iteration of the B-15. It looks mint, or nearly so. Even has the original octal speaker plug, reminiscent of the plugs in a Hammond Organ.
No "record out" jack. I'm right, John. You just can't stand to be wrong. : )



Best,

audioforce
Old 14th February 2019
  #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
No "record out" jack. I'm right, John. You just can't stand to be wrong. : )



Best,

audioforce
No, that one doesn't have it - along with a lot of other things the (slightly) more recent ones do. I'd actually totally forgotten about that version of the B-15 They're so rare that you almost never see them - I might have seen one in my entire life.

They're really almost prototypes, considering how quickly they were replaced with the "new" version.
Old 14th February 2019
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
No, that one doesn't have it - along with a lot of other things the (slightly) more recent ones do. I'd actually totally forgotten about that version of the B-15 They're so rare that you almost never see them - I might have seen one in my entire life.

They're really almost prototypes, considering how quickly they were replaced with the "new" version.
The B15Ns don't have a "record out" either. None of them do. And there are a zillion pictures proving that. I posted a bunch.

I'm being stupid, you say? WTF?

Dude, I can't believe the lengths you go to rhetorically to try to be right about something when it just isn't so.

Moreover, the point that you are going to such bizarre lengths to prove is arguably the most meaningless point that anyone has tried to prove.

What the Ampegs do have, which is an "Ext Amp" jack [or two of them], is way better than what you are claiming. Your argument, even if it were true [which it is not] is completely pointless and futile. You just want to appear to be an "ultimate authority" on everything, including something[s] that you don't really know about.

Not saying you don't know anything about amps and amp repair, btw. And not saying that you don't ever post helpful info. But you seem to have to critique everything, as if you somehow always know better. You don't. Age doesn't necessarily equate to experience, and experience doesn't equate to good experience, or being right about things.

I've had an interesting time learning some stuff about old Ampegs, but you're ever changing story about the mythical "record out" jack is comical.

My point was proven early on, when I showed that all the V-4s were basically the same, Magnavox or not. I actually thought some old flip tops might have a "record out", giving you the benefit of a doubt. But it turns out that they just don't. I've seen the manuals, the pictures, the service manuals, all of that. No "record out" jack shown, discussed, or even mentioned by anyone or anything.

That oughta do it.


Best,


audioforce
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Old 14th February 2019
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Please stop being stupid - I have seen literally hundreds of B-15s and B-18s with the "Record Out" designation on the chassis. My B-18 is simply the only one I have access to at present.
I'm being stupid? Wow.

Right, sure. There's a whole internet full of pictures. Just none that support your claim, and a gazillion that support the opposite.

Quote:
You need to stop believing everything you read on the internet - a lot of it is revisionist stuff that is full of errors.
Your stuff is what's full of errors. And pointless "win at any cost" attitude. You make yourself look ridiculous by constantly bobbing and weaving to try to cover yourself when you misspeak. Don't worry, I don't believe it. Nor do others, as far as that goes. Your attempt to appear as an authority on everything is not working, and it undermines what good information you do have to offer.

Quote:
You referenced 4 articles.



1- Reverb - this article has inaccuracies, as do many of Reverb's technical an historical articles. I would never use Reverb articles as an authoritative source.
The article is fine. It is more authoritative than anything you come up with.

Quote:
2- Bass Player. com - this one is actually pretty good, the best of the lot. It reminded me of some details I had forgotten, added a bit of info on the actual time line, especially concerning some of the "oddball" models, and is easily the best of the lot for general info. It does use the designation "line out" although the early models used "record out", which was the only error I noticed.
This article does not mention "line out" at all, so you are totally confused.

Its obviously a good article since it is an interview with the designer, Jess Oliver, and Tony Levin. The article that uses the phrase "line out" is in the next reference, Talkbass, where it states that the Ext Amp jack is essentially a line out.

Quote:
3 - Talkbass - This is a forum thread. As such it contains a certain amount of good info and a considerable amount of bad info. Not to be trusted.
Again, this post is essentially fine and shows plainly that the amps had an "Ext. Amp" jack, since that is the very topic of the thread. It is again way more authoritative than the nonsense you've been coming up with on this topic.

Quote:
4 - Premier Guitar - This is an article on the wiring of the 4-pin plug. It is accurate and covers BOTH VERSIONS of the protection system used in the 4 pin Ampeg amps. What it does not mention is that the original reason for it was to allow the preamp section to be used as a preamp for direct recording without having a speaker connected. But why should it? The article is about wiring, not history.
The article is fine and it doesn't talk about the issue you are trying to advance because its not even a bona fide issue.


Further, you do not need to, nor have any authority to, critique and purport to judge everything that is posted here. You have this weird tic of "explaining" people's posts to them, but with a twist that tries to support your opinion. Very odd.

Quote:
I'm getting really tired of your attitude in this conversation. I'll try to post a pic when I get around to it but I'm in no hurry, especially since you rather rudely suggested that I might have doctored the printing on the back of my all-original (except speaker) amplifier just to "win" an argument with you.

I'm not in any great hurry to tear apart our set rehearsal backline setup just to satisfy your smart-ass attitude though. I'd have to move other amps and a drum set to get to it and then put it all back which is a lot of effort just to give evidence to somebody who is just going to come back with a dumb smartass answer. And the B-18 is HEAVY for somebody with a heart condition.
You are not going to "tear apart [y]our set rehearsal backline setup" [ROFL], because you do not have an amp that legitimately supports your erroneous statements and you probably do not want to lose face any more than you already have. There are tons of pictures of old B18s on the net, none of which have a "record out" jack, just like yours doesn't [if you even actually have one].

Here are a few original B18s, like the one you claim to have. Oh look! They all have an EXT. AMP jack and no "record out" jack.

Puhleeze.

Ampeg B-18N 1960's Beat Black Tolex | The Guitar Joint | Reverb

Ampeq B18N 1966 Black Diamond | Rick's Gear Bazaar | Reverb

Ampeg B18 early 60's Blue Check | Reverb


Best,


audioforce
Attached Thumbnails
Ampeg vt22 external amp jack question for experts-ampeg-b18-bass-amp-all-original_1_670281c0651c0ca0e22283ec524159ff.jpg   Ampeg vt22 external amp jack question for experts-froerovkearcciho2rid.jpg   Ampeg vt22 external amp jack question for experts-z8rrrtwgvwbmbax64sjq.jpg   Ampeg vt22 external amp jack question for experts-vidxpyl64jhe7bkj8cly.jpg  
Old 14th February 2019
  #44
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For those who may be interested, here's the Portaflex Wiki's "Technical" instructions on a whole bunch of stuff. Lots of instructions from the source.

Topics include:

"How Do I Connect More Than One Portaflex Amp Together?", and,

"Is There a Way That I Can Use Just the Pre-amp and Not the Power Amp?"

[and there is all kinds of other Technical Amplifier stuff].



contents Technical - Amplifier | TalkBass.com

topic Technical - Amplifier | TalkBass.com

topic Technical - Amplifier | TalkBass.com

Best,


audioforce
Old 14th February 2019
  #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Dude, I can't believe the lengths you go to rhetorically to try to be right about something when it just isn't so.

Moreover, the point that you are going to such bizarre lengths to prove is arguably the most meaningless point that anyone has tried to prove.
You're the one who keeps dogging on it, not me. You continually make veiled insults and post links to internet articles, most of which aren't worth the paper they're not printed on. The fact is, you're wrong. My familiarity with Ampeg amps goers back to when you were in knee pants, if not diapers. As a service vtech I've worked on hundreds of them. When I was supporting myself by buying, refurbishing, and selling audio equipment I have many Ampegs pass through my hands.

I'm not wrong. Anybody who hasd a long term relationship with the brand will tell you about the Portaflex record out.

You are a troll. Cut it out.

I'm done with this.
Old 14th February 2019
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
You're the one who keeps dogging on it, not me. You continually make veiled insults and post links to internet articles, most of which aren't worth the paper they're not printed on. The fact is, you're wrong. My familiarity with Ampeg amps goers back to when you were in knee pants, if not diapers. As a service vtech I've worked on hundreds of them. When I was supporting myself by buying, refurbishing, and selling audio equipment I have many Ampegs pass through my hands.

I'm not wrong. Anybody who hasd a long term relationship with the brand will tell you about the Portaflex record out.

You are a troll. Cut it out.

I'm done with this.

I'm sure. Good.

And, yes, you are wrong [again].


Best,

audioforce
Old 14th February 2019
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
I'm not sure about the specific amp in question because over the years and changes in corporate ownership the original designs got buggered up somewhat because the new owners did not understand the original designs and cut corners they shouldn't have, but originally the line out was intended for direct recording. The original Ampegs has a unique speaker output employing a 4 pin XLR set up so that with the speaker disconnected the preamp would be active but the power amp would automatically go into standby - this was to prevent damage to the output transformer if the amp was used as a preamp only. At that time the jack was labelled "record out", which is a pretty clear indication of purpose. Some time after the first generation SVTs this was changed to a conventional 1/4". IIRC the very first ones of those had some kind of standby switching circuit but that was eliminated fairly quickly as the company changed hands and to use it as originally intended required manually switching the amp to standby (if, indeed the preamp section still operated with the amp in standby - I'd have to look at the schematics.)

The point is, the line out was originally designed as a preamp output. If they do work for amp stacking it was an unintentional byproduct of the original design.

If the VT-22 was a 70's version like this the External amp jack was definitely for stacking purposes where you'd have one preamp driving all the other power amps.



The V2 and V4B I owned from that era had the same jack for the same purpose. I did use it for driving a second head for a short time when playing bass. The signal was line level and fairly hot for power.

I do remember the XLT cables used for some of the 70's Ampeg. I rewired several of the cabinets. The speaker cord was just a simple two conductor cable with a 1/4" on one end and the XLR only used two wires. it was a durable cable and worked fine as a speaker jack, but god forbid it did go bad or you left it behind. You were screwed for connecting that cab with a regular cable.

That's probably where I first messed with one. The bass player forgot his speaker cable and I had to wire in a regular cord at a gig. It was easy enough, just unscrew the back plate.

The external amp had nothing to do with speaker levels. Maybe they had something else going on the old ones with the 4 pin jacks, but the few older Potaflex amps I used in the past were wired for standard 1/4"
Old 16th February 2019
  #48
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrgkmc View Post
If the VT-22 was a 70's version like this the External amp jack was definitely for stacking purposes where you'd have one preamp driving all the other power amps.



The V2 and V4B I owned from that era had the same jack for the same purpose. I did use it for driving a second head for a short time when playing bass. The signal was line level and fairly hot for power.

I do remember the XLT cables used for some of the 70's Ampeg. I rewired several of the cabinets. The speaker cord was just a simple two conductor cable with a 1/4" on one end and the XLR only used two wires. it was a durable cable and worked fine as a speaker jack, but god forbid it did go bad or you left it behind. You were screwed for connecting that cab with a regular cable.

That's probably where I first messed with one. The bass player forgot his speaker cable and I had to wire in a regular cord at a gig. It was easy enough, just unscrew the back plate.

The external amp had nothing to do with speaker levels. Maybe they had something else going on the old ones with the 4 pin jacks, but the few older Potaflex amps I used in the past were wired for standard 1/4"
Sure, stacking is what they were advertising for in that era. But it's the same jack that was initially conceived and labelled as a recording jack on the really old B-15s. The circuit's the same. The difference is the printed verbiage and the sales schpiel. The V4 was a model that was introduced at the beginning of the era of musicians stacking up walls of amplifiers, so advertising the jack for daisychaining amps was a natural.

The point of the 4 pin connector is that it mated with a 4 conductor speaker cable pigtailing out the back of the old B15s and B-18s so you could use one of those amps with that cab. If you rewired the cabinets you might have noticed that the 2 middle pins of the 4 pin were soldered together.

There is a reason for this. On the B-15 and B-18 there is a standby circuit that is enabled when the middle two pins of the 4 pin on the pigtail are shorted together. Without a speaker cable the power amp section won't go off standby - but the preamp still works, allowing the direct out jack on the back to be connectivity to a recording device or line in on a mixer.

The "old" Portaflex amps that you used with a 1/4" main speaker jack were not old Portaflex amps. Those were the new, revised reissues. Of course by now even the newer ones are getting pretty old, but those are not the ones I'm referring to, which are the ones with blue diamond tolex produced between 1961 and the early '70s. Yours are probably first reissue, introduced about 10 years after the old ones were discontinued. Probably black tolex, right?
Old 16th February 2019
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Sure, stacking is what they were advertising for in that era. But it's the same jack that was initially conceived and labelled as a recording jack on the really old B-15s.


That's false and erroneous.

See attachment at page 6, no. 14, from Ampeg, regarding the EXT. AMP. jack. To wit:

"This feature was originally
designed
as a means to daisy-chain
two or more B-15 amps together for
additional power.
This new-and-improved
Heritage B-15 could also be used as a
line out to feed an unbalanced Hi-Z input
such as a direct box or a mixer.
Alternately, it may be utilized as an
input. Any signal applied here will not be
affected by the volume controls [2, 6]."

There was no "record out" jack on any of them. Period.


Best,

audioforce
Attached Files
File Type: pdf HB15_OM.pdf (1.45 MB, 7 views)
Old 16th February 2019
  #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
That's false and erroneous.

See attachment at page 6, no. 14, from Ampeg, regarding the EXT. AMP. jack. To wit:

"This feature was originally
designed
as a means to daisy-chain
two or more B-15 amps together for
additional power.
This new-and-improved
Heritage B-15 could also be used as a
line out to feed an unbalanced Hi-Z input
such as a direct box or a mixer.
Alternately, it may be utilized as an
input. Any signal applied here will not be
affected by the volume controls [2, 6]."

There was no "record out" jack on any of them. Period.


Best,

audioforce
That's a load of bull. The article you refer to was written by PR flack working for a much more recent "Ampeg" company, long after Jess Oliver had departed the company. In case you didn't notice, it refers top the "Heritage" B-15, which was in introduced 20 years after the original line was discontinued. The "Heritage" version doesn't even have the original 4-pin speaker connection with the auto standby safety feature - because the people running the company at the time were too damn dumb to understand what it was for.

When that feature was instantiated in the original version of the B-15N nobody (at Ampeg, anyway) was thinking about stacking amps./ It was the early '60s and Ampeg intended those amps to be used for low volume jazz gigs and recording. The original owner, Everett Hull HATED rock and roll and loud music. Why would he incorporate a feature to support loud music, which he famously HATED?

The answer is, he would not.

And why would Oliver incorporate a relatively elaborate automatic standby feature to allow the head to be used as a preamp without a speaker connected without harming the output stage if it wasn't intended for recording?

You're willing to quote any revisionist PR twaddle to "win" the argument, but the FACT is that you're WRONG. Some of the other articles you've referenced that actually used some of the company old timers for source mention this but you "conveniently" manage to ignore that more authoritative documentation because it doesn't fit your argument.. The output was intended as a line out for recording, suitable for connecting to the line input of a console or directly to a recorder. The daisy chaining amps thing was an afterthought that came along AFTER both Everett Hull and Jess Oliver were gone from the company, when Ampeg had changed directions to pursue the (much more lucrative) rock market.

Go back and read the Premier Guitar and Bass Player.com articles again, especially the former. while neither one specifically mentions that the jack was originally designated as a record out they contain information that supports what I've been telling you. The Premiere Guitar explains the 4 pin jack and how it allows the head to be used as a preamp.

Give it up. You're wrong. And your incessant trolling has been reported.

There is far too much bad information on this subject on the internet, you don't need to propagate it.

Last edited by John Eppstein; 16th February 2019 at 11:00 PM..
Old 17th February 2019
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
That's a load of bull. The article you refer to was written by PR flack working for a much more recent "Ampeg" company, long after Jess Oliver had departed the company. In case you didn't notice, it refers top the "Heritage" B-15, which was in introduced 20 years after the original line was discontinued. The "Heritage" version doesn't even have the original 4-pin speaker connection with the auto standby safety feature - because the people running the company at the time were too damn dumb to understand what it was for.

When that feature was instantiated in the original version of the B-15N nobody (at Ampeg, anyway) was thinking about stacking amps./ It was the early '60s and Ampeg intended those amps to be used for low volume jazz gigs and recording. The original owner, Everett Hull HATED rock and roll and loud music. Why would he incorporate a feature to support loud music, which he famously HATED?

The answer is, he would not.

And why would Oliver incorporate a relatively elaborate automatic standby feature to allow the head to be used as a preamp without a speaker connected without harming the output stage if it wasn't intended for recording?

You're willing to quote any revisionist PR twaddle to "win" the argument, but the FACT is that you're WRONG. Some of the other articles you've referenced that actually used some of the company old timers for source mention this but you "conveniently" manage to ignore that more authoritative documentation because it doesn't fit your argument.. The output was intended as a line out for recording, suitable for connecting to the line input of a console or directly to a recorder. The daisy chaining amps thing was an afterthought that came along AFTER both Everett Hull and Jess Oliver were gone from the company, when Ampeg had changed directions to pursue the (much more lucrative) rock market.

Go back and read the Premier Guitar and Bass Player.com articles again, especially the former. while neither one specifically mentions that the jack was originally designated as a record out they contain information that supports what I've been telling you. The Premiere Guitar explains the 4 pin jack and how it allows the head to be used as a preamp.

Give it up. You're wrong. And your incessant trolling has been reported.

There is far too much bad information on this subject on the internet, you don't need to propagate it.

You are absolutely wrong, and I've proven it over and over in this thread. I've proven it with the schematics, the pictures, the manuals, the interviews, and every other kind of way. All you have is your baseless claim, with nothing whatsoever to back it up. Your "experience" is worthless, because it doesn’t trump the truth. What I have posted is truth, with evidence. You can't remember your story from post to post, and nothing you say is making sense. The evidence is here, and it proves you wrong, absolutely and unequivocally.

I think you should give up, John, and stop trying to ruin this thread with your imaginary fantasy story. You are the one trying to propagate bad and false information, just to appear knowledgable where you are not. Are you trying to be an embarrassment? That's a rhetorical question.

The thread topic was specifically about a VT-22 Ext Amp jack, btw. And everybody knows you can use a preamp out to go to the console or tape machine [or Pro Tools / whatever]. As explained previously, the Ext Amp jack is both a preamp out and a power amp in.

Your “point” has no point, man.



Best,


audioforce
Old 17th February 2019
  #52
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittyfranco View Post
I have an old Ampeg vt-22. It has an external amp jack on the back
I was reading The recording studio handbook by John Woram. It covers the external amp jack and it sounds like I can plug in an impedance
matching transformer and take the guitar output straight to a line input or mic input.

The book says the SHURE A95P is
the one to use. I want to take the output from the external amp jack and
go to either mic level or line level. But all impedance
matching transformer plugs I see go from mic level to line. Not the other way round.
I need advice. And would rather not
have to hunt down a rare SHURE A95P.
Actually you should be able to use a regular 1/4" T-S guitar cable to plug directly into a line input on a console. Only problem might be that the line out from the Ampeg is a pretty hot signal.
Old 17th February 2019
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Actually you should be able to use a regular 1/4" T-S guitar cable to plug directly into a line input on a console.
Uhmm, as I’ve been saying, right? : ).

And definitely leave the speaker plugged in, or use a load box or something.


cheers,

audioforce
Old 17th February 2019
  #54
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audioforce's Avatar
 

For those following along at home, here is a direct quote from Jess Oliver, the designer of the Ampeg Portaflex, from the following article in BassPlayer magazine [link to full article again below]:

The Ampeg B-15 : From Inception To Resurrection


BEHOLD THE AMPEG B-15, A SIMPLE BOX ON WHEELS THAT HOUSES the very crossroads of ingenuity, portability, and sonic superiority beneath its four latches.
CHRIS JISIMAR 13, 2011


JO [Jess Oliver]: "You could get an overdriven sound by turning the volume knob past 11 o’clock, causing the amp to clip. I also designed in the ability to use two B-15s together with a regular q" guitar cable going from the rear external amplifier jack to either the external jack or the front instrument jack on the second B-15; the tone controls from the first amp would then work for both amps."



Here's the full article:


The Ampeg B-15 : From Inception To Resurrection - BassPlayer.com



Ipso Fatso, according to the designer Jess Oliver's own words, and all the pictures, and all the schematics, and all the manuals, and the service manuals, and all the articles, I am right. The jacks on the back of [all] Portaflexes are [and they are called and labeled] "External Amplifier" jacks


"Now that oughtta do it." [Danny DeVito]

THE END.


Bestest,


audioforce - noted Ampeg External Amplifier jack authority [not just a random dude]
Old 17th February 2019
  #55
Gear Addict
 
Sniff's Avatar
 

Phew. We have a winner.



When's the re-match
Old 17th February 2019
  #56
Wait what? John Eppstein got something wrong! this cant be, I refuse to believe it, surely that's impossible for a human of his standard to make a mistake, impossible! No no, his opinions transcend reality, he could never be incorrect about anything.
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Old 17th February 2019
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronsmith View Post
Wait what? John Eppstein got something wrong! this cant be, I refuse to believe it,
You can believe it. Trust me on this one.



Best,

audioforce - noted Ampeg External Amplifier jack authority
Old 18th February 2019
  #58
Lives for gear
 
audioforce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniff View Post
Phew. We have a winner.



When's the re-match
Ha. Gunpowder, Gelatine. : )


Well, first I should get my prize, I think.



Best,

audioforce
Old 18th February 2019
  #59
Lives for gear
 
enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniff View Post
Phew. We have a winner.
There is no winner unless you're actually concerned about mere historical labeling over actual function. It's a "tempest in a teapot" or better "a tale full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"
Old 18th February 2019
  #60
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
There is no winner unless you're actually concerned about mere historical labeling over actual function. It's a "tempest in a teapot" or better "a tale full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"
By definition, when a troll "wins" everybody loses.
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