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Playing FAST.. Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 18th January 2019
  #31
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PdotDdot's Avatar
Playing fast is simply a tool for the toolkit. There are times and genres of music that require it - flatpicking for example.

To me, the most iportant thing however is playing the right notes and leaving the other notes out - in other words taste.

Years ago when i first got into flat picking I could play as fast as anyone. Then I went to playing mostly electric guitar and my right hand style changed completely. Years later I tried to get the speed back as i got back into flat picking but alas playing electric had so altered my right hand that I could not get it back - I got most of the speed back but not all of it. I think I developed different habits being an electric player and trying to go back to the bluegrass thing required a different technique and my electric technique was too ingrained in my DNA.

While there are times when not being able to play fast makes it impossible for me to play what I want, I am still a proponent of taste and the logic that less is more so for me, losing the speed has not really made much of a difference.
Old 18th January 2019
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I was in a band ages ago and we audition this one guy who's just a monster shredder and dresses the part. Shows up for the audition in eyeliner, scarves, leather. Weighs about 90 pounds. Plays so fast it doesn't matter if he's in tune.

After everyone leaves and we go down the list, when we come to that guy the drummer says, "I think he'd bring something we've been lacking up til now. The girls won't wanna fvck him, but the boys will."
Hilarious - love it!
Old 18th January 2019
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by hello people View Post
It's like some kind of freak show. No offense!

If one doesn't watch it sounds just like music, to me, anyhow. (At the beginning, anyhow, see my note below.)

Now, is it my favorite music? Or even favorite jazz? No... but I'm listening to what he's doing and it's intelligently interrelated, well articulated and, if it was two guys, probably wouldn't raise eyebrows.


THAT said... WTF is going on with that vid?

Someone appears to have overlaid a half minute or so of unrelated guitar playing video OVER the live vid in the middle at the end of Jordan's solo (say around 2'18"). Real bizarre... and then it cuts off the bass solo in the middle. Whoever 'did' that video is whack.
Old 18th January 2019
  #34
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henryrobinett's Avatar
It’s all about the music. Some music requires it, others don’t. I play with a band that plays adventurous jazz. Modern, some bop, some fusion. Sometimes there are songs that go at breakneck tempos. If you’re going to hang you gotta keep up and have something significant to say.
Old 19th January 2019
  #35
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nyandres's Avatar
Playing fast is important... but... only so you have better ability to express what you want to express, should you have a passage in mind that requires speed. Also speed requires technique, but faster isnt always the most technical... Some awkward positions played at half the speed of a simple fast part can be comparable in difficulty...

Long story short. Speed is just a tool... I love being able to play fast. Love showing off every now and then too haha.. I however would not incorporate most of that into a song for the most part.
Unlike the 80s, a lot of the ridiculously technical players today seldom use their speed unless the song calls for it... Guthrie Govan comes to mind, when compared to most fast players of the 80s.. Guthrie to me is as technical as it gets, but youd have to listen to a ton of stuff to get the idea... Where as say listen to yngwie or other 80s speed picker, and you hear them showing off in every song, throughout the song.. Something modern music has been getting away from.
Old 19th January 2019
  #36
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ProgFree's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
I worked for Rex Bogue and we built the double neck guitar for Mahavishnu John McLaughlin back in the 1970's. John would show me stuff I still use today. One is the missing index finger exercise. Drop it like many guitarists drop their pinky finger and learn to play everything that way. The "bird" finger is used as the index finger. Not so easy, is it? It is for me.

John also made his own custom picks out of 1/8" thick hard plastic. That was so he could pick very fast with no flexing of the pick. Yes, I also learned to pick very fast. I also like long legato notes that feedback/sustain for 4 bars. It's all part of the variety of life.
Great story Jim! do you remember which pickups that guitar has?
Old 19th January 2019
  #37
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Zoobiedood's Avatar
 

Wow, very cool stories! I've heard that the double neck was really heavy. I use a scalloped neck to this day because of John.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #38
The Rex Bogue "Double Penis" (as we affectionately called it) weighed in at around 13~14 lbs. Yes it was very heavy. It would also flex a bit if you moved with it. Part of the weight was the dual 3/8" square steel rods glued inside the necks. John would do lifting exercises in order to work with it.

It had a pair of Gibson stock humbuckers glued into the body. It also had a preamp circuit I built using a pair of 2N5089 transistors. It had treble and bass controls. The Anvil flight case for it was also a beast. It was very exciting for me to work on that guitar for the Mahavishnu Orchestra. I also installed that preamp into his Gibson double neck to hold him over while the Double Penis was being built. I was only 25 back then, just a kid.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #39
How about this: Practice fast. But play like you feel it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #40
Deleted ac1715a
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oh.. dont be sore and sour.. just practice
Old 4 weeks ago
  #41
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eternalsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
I love playing fast. I don’t do the 80s metal shred thing. I’m a jazz and fusion guy. But lately the more I work on playing fast the less fast I can play! Lol maybe it’s an age thing. But yeah. Speed gives me a thrill. I like being at the top of my game. But ultimately it’s all about taste and playing what the music requires.
Fast jazz?? Now you sir are just a bad @ss.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimi777 View Post
I personally play fast licks, but only the ones that have easy fingering (es. chromatic runs, or classic rock metal licks or scales up and down...).
So my techinique is: melodic a la David Gilmour except when I add density with pi-ri-pi-ri-pi-ri fast something that I can play in 80-shred style. Some "licks" around are insanely strange for the fingers, I won't spend two months to practice only one of them and two months for another...I just don't incorporate them in my music, I go with the fast runs... in the end, they are like drum fills for me. They fill.
(Doing covers of 80 technical stuff is more difficult, since if the song has strange fingering you have to deal with it, but not my case, I don't do covers)

As for millenials:
You can find millenials interested in this things all day long if you want.

...you only need to find in youtube people that do covers of Dream Theater, Slayer,Metallica, Gutrie Govan, Steve Vai, Satriani, and all the Black or Death Metal wave... and then pick the age that you want.

But a big modern trend is also progressive-technical-djent.
See Animals as Leaders and Tesseract.

Statistically are for sure less than pleople that do covers of Oasis Wonderwall.
But there are.
Thanks for that Kimi! Insightful info have do you.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #42
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GearFiddler's Avatar
 

It's good to be able to play fast music fast. Haha. And it's probably best if you can walk before you try to run. It often helps to work it out carefully at slower speeds and notch your way on up, staying as relaxed as possible. I think fast twitch types can get away with a less relaxed approach, but I'm not that so I wouldn't know for sure. With running 16ths as in the following clip, it can be beneficial to also do rhythms. Dotted 8th -3 16ths, and other permutations so that the fast motion is in a different spot each way.

I've heard it faster, to where it's mostly a vertical listening experience, but this lass does a fine job. Relaxed and in wonderful control. I particularly like the way she slows down at will......... . . . . . with a seemingly Fibonacci - like ratio.
Given the material, I'll let you guys decide if she plays with feeling, or enough feeling.


Last edited by GearFiddler; 4 weeks ago at 12:59 PM.. Reason: spelling
Old 4 weeks ago
  #43
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eternalsound's Avatar
She's hot.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #44
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eternalsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
How about this: Practice fast. But play like you feel it.
Funny because this is me for sure. I practice very fast but never really incorporate it into my leads.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #45
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jiffybox's Avatar
Two words: Kurt Cobain. He was a sea change for many many guitarists in the 90s. It went from Sunset Strip shredding to one angry sustained note solos almost overnight. Of course Cantrell, McCready, Thayil etc we’re all grunge shredders, but it wasn’t flashy in that 80s way. For a couple years post-Nirvana I’d say it was almost embarrassing if you were shredding in the c*ck rock sense of the word. In my band we morphed into a Young/Crazy Horse type of soloing, in that sloppy Mascis/Sonic Youth style. I was happy about that because I was usually filled with anxiety in the 80s that I couldn’t play fast enough. Once I found the slowness in a solo, I started enjoying it. Plus I started getting into Les Paul, Charlie Christian, Django, all “shredders” of their eras.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #46
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henryrobinett's Avatar
I generally practice very slowly. Then I try fast, but in incremental steps. I start at say 60 BPM, then 80, then 100, then 120, 140, 180 200 and above. I almost exclusively do improvisation though, so I'm not playing memorized licks or fixed parts.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearFiddler View Post
It's good to be able to play fast music fast. Haha. And it's probably best if you can walk before you try to run. It often helps to work it out carefully at slower speeds and notch your way on up, staying as relaxed as possible. I think fast twitch types can get away with a less relaxed approach, but I'm not that so I wouldn't know for sure. With running 16ths as in the following clip, it can be beneficial to also do rhythms. Dotted 8th -3 16ths, and other permutations so that the fast motion is in a different spot each way.

I've heard it faster, to where it's mostly a vertical listening experience, but this lass does a fine job. Relaxed and in wonderful control. I particularly like the way she slows down at will......... . . . . . with a seemingly Fibonacci - like ratio.
Given the material, I'll let you guys decide if she plays with feeling, or enough feeling.

There's a bit of "bow wobble" there. In the left hand.
But otherwise it is a close to great performance.

Interesting to look away from the screen and not be prejudiced by the visuals.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
I worked for Rex Bogue and we built the double neck guitar for Mahavishnu John McLaughlin back in the 1970's. John would show me stuff I still use today. One is the missing index finger exercise. Drop it like many guitarists drop their pinky finger and learn to play everything that way. The "bird" finger is used as the index finger. Not so easy, is it? It is for me.

John also made his own custom picks out of 1/8" thick hard plastic. That was so he could pick very fast with no flexing of the pick. Yes, I also learned to pick very fast. I also like long legato notes that feedback/sustain for 4 bars. It's all part of the variety of life.
Big McLaughlin fan, he's the reason I started playing fast. Highly recommend his DVD set.

Personally, never liked thick stiff picks. I use a super thin Tortex exclusively. I find that bending of the pick helps with the speed.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 444thc View Post
There's a bit of "bow wobble" there. In the left hand.
But otherwise it is a close to great performance.

Interesting to look away from the screen and not be prejudiced by the visuals.

She isn't perfect, and I don't have to look away to know where. She's probably well aware of a spot or two as well. Still, given the other choices for performances of this piece at YT, hers easily won.

"Bow wobble"? In the left hand?

Her bow is in her right hand. Perhaps you are referring to vibrato?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #50
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henryrobinett's Avatar
OK. This is the type of crap I absolutely HATE. Here is a remarkable violinist and people on the sidelines criticizing, as if they could ever come close. Who needs the criticism? Enjoy the artistry. People like to talk so as to make their opinions important therefore puffing themselves up. Bow wobble? Otherwise a perfect performance?? Even when people perform on the guitar, my instrument, I NEVER am critical. That's me, but it drives me bonkers. Who the hell cares what someone thinks? Just sit back and appreciate.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #51
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Quote:
"Bow wobble"? In the left hand?

Her bow is in her right hand. Perhaps you are referring to vibrato?
You are correct . It's the right hand I'm referring to .Her bow hand.

The strength I feel that isn't there is making the transition between notes a little inconsistent. "Bow bounce" is what I should have said.

Nonetheless a "fine performance".
Old 4 weeks ago
  #52
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GearFiddler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
OK. This is the type of crap I absolutely HATE. Here is a remarkable violinist and people on the sidelines criticizing, as if they could ever come close. Who needs the criticism? Enjoy the artistry. People like to talk so as to make their opinions important therefore puffing themselves up. Bow wobble? Otherwise a perfect performance?? Even when people perform on the guitar, my instrument, I NEVER am critical. That's me, but it drives me bonkers. Who the hell cares what someone thinks? Just sit back and appreciate.
I worked this Caprice long and hard. I eventually wound up with a pinched nerve or something in my right elbow. Every time I would do a fast elbow drop to go from the G string to the E I'd get a funny bone twinge which usually resulted in me dropping the bow.

Paganini won. I never did perform it, but I learned some important lessons. If only I'd learned to find musical reasons to slow down here and there to cut myself a break before my elbow called it a wrap. Maybe that's why I'm so impressed when she does it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #53
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
OK. This is the type of crap I absolutely HATE. Here is a remarkable violinist and people on the sidelines criticizing, as if they could ever come close. Who needs the criticism? Enjoy the artistry. People like to talk so as to make their opinions important therefore puffing themselves up. Bow wobble? Otherwise a perfect performance?? Even when people perform on the guitar, my instrument, I NEVER am critical. That's me, but it drives me bonkers. Who the hell cares what someone thinks? Just sit back and appreciate.

This isn't "artistry" , this is a written piece that relies on an aesthetic to be properly expressed.

Personally I prefer a version that is closer to the composers vision.

Intonation and technique are improved here:

Old 4 weeks ago
  #54
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GearFiddler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 444thc;13754012

Personally I prefer a version that is closer to the composers vision.

Intonation and technique are improved here:

[YOUTUBE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amfCqFUMBkY[/YOUTUBE]
I disagree. He's just faster. And Sumina actually does the bowing that Paganini indicates. Which is a three down one up spiccato. The 2nd and 3rd down bows are effectively a bounce or ricochet provided by the impetus of the first.

I did what Schlomo does. All separate standard spiccato and I wish I'd given Paganini's indication more serious consideration.

(Fortunately my elbow got better and I moved on to other works an improved violinist in several ways.)

Anyway, I can be considerably more specific, but would rather not get into tossing back and forth time points from the respective vids.

- I'm not sure why the quote came up in bold...not my intent.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #55
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mamm7215's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 444thc View Post
This isn't "artistry" , this is a written piece that relies on an aesthetic to be properly expressed.

Personally I prefer a version that is closer to the composers vision.

Intonation and technique are improved here:

Donald Trump played violin when he was younger?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #56
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ProgFree's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearFiddler View Post
She isn't perfect, and I don't have to look away to know where. She's probably well aware of a spot or two as well. Still, given the other choices for performances of this piece at YT, hers easily won.
She's good, but still has A LOT of mileage ahead to reach Herman Krebbers expression and articulation level...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #57
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ProgFree's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRoy View Post
Big McLaughlin fan, he's the reason I started playing fast. Highly recommend his DVD set.
Don't mention those DVDs loud, it's a secret

In that set just annoys me a bit the speech sound, could be better. But the whole thing it's a gem. Also his transcription book published by Hal Leonard is great material.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #58
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Who here remember this video?
I've always found it so funny...specially at minute 4:30


Old 4 weeks ago
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimi777 View Post
Who here remember this video?
I've always found it so funny...specially at minute 4:30


That's totally insane !
Esp. the 4'30" mark.

He probably plays Paganini too.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProgFree View Post
She's good, but still has A LOT of mileage ahead to reach Herman Krebbers expression and articulation level...
There are more versions at YT than the last time I looked, but I don't see his.

Well, she was 19 when she was recorded for that vid. (I was 18 when I took a swing at it myself, 39 years ago.) I think Michael Rabin's is the best I've heard, along with Perlman's.

BTW. That's a rather live hall she's in and as such presents some challenges, and it quite likely has a speed limit.
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