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Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 4 weeks ago
  #31
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kafka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerzilly View Post
If the amp came with an Alnico speaker and an attenuator and that's the orginal setup, I'll keep it. The field coil speaker experiment can finds it way to another amp. Although I did enjoy reading the comments about field coil speakers. The tech history is very cool.
Oh, well, the attenuator isn't original. And I'm not sure about the alnico, either. You have some real folk art going there. I'd leave it as it is.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post
Yeah, OK. That does look like an ordinary attenuator and speaker. i.e. like the old Jim Kelley. I like that vintagey box he put it in and that he mounted it to the cab.
Of course it is. It's a a wirewound linear pot (with an added wiper) as sold by Radio Sheck, Allied, Layfayette, and many others to control level on hi-fi systems and for use in early systems in restaurants, small bars, and various other small businesses. Usually they were sold for use in home-brew speaker crossovers in the early '60s.

Quote:
I have some maroon gator embossed leather in the basement that I'd like to put on a head someday. I don't have a whole lot, but I could do a Champ or 1/2 Deluxe head with it. Summer project.
Not the same. Gator embossed is pretty common, relatively cheap, and available. Real gator leather, despite the abundance of gators, not so much.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post
It's definitely a weirdo idea. I doubt I'll be in the market for a 12" guitar speaker at that price, but I'd like to play one.

And to make sure this stays on topic, I encourage OP to figure out how to DIY one. Because that would be one badass Deluxe.
You can't DIY one unless you own a machine shop.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerzilly View Post
If the amp came with an Alnico speaker and an attenuator and that's the orginal setup, I'll keep it. The field coil speaker experiment can finds it way to another amp. Although I did enjoy reading the comments about field coil speakers. The tech history is very cool.
What are the numbers printed on the frame and on the cone of the speaker?

Do any of them start in "220"?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #35
Gear Head
 

I don't see any numbers or markings on the frame. The frame is coated in a black textured paint. I found a marking on the cone but its not all there. Unfortunately i see a repair was made on the cone. Attached are some high res pics.
Attached Thumbnails
Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280289.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280292.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280294.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280297.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280298.jpg  

Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280288.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280287.jpg  
Old 4 weeks ago
  #36
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Mikhael's Avatar
 

It's got a whizzer cone?!? Did amps back in the day have those?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #37
Here for the gear
 

Here's what you've got.
It's obviously a recover, nobody at Fender ever did a job that sloppy. They never stapled tolex.
Originally it had a metal window screen on the inside top, not aluminum furnace tape.
Did I miss the tube chart?
They used ceramic speakers in 1964, that's an alnico out of an organ, old tube radio or something else on its way to the landfill. If you like the way it sounds, cool, if not sell it for scrap metal.
Fender didn't use wizzer cones.
The "black box" might do more harm than good, I certainly wouldn't use one an my vintage amps.
The good news is, the guts look unmolested, but I couldn't blow the pictures up and might have missed something small.
The electrolytics look right for an early blackface, the logo on the grill of a 1964 DR is suspect. The little BF amps didn't get those right away, Champs, Princetons, Deluxes.
If you want it to live and work right, change all the electrolytics, the filter and bias are the most critical but I do the cathode bypass caps too, they get noisy.
That rectifier tube isn't the Mullard GZ34 it came with, it looks like a fat bottle 5u4, hopefully it's not a 5u4! They draw 1 amp more heater current, not good for a PT built for 2amps.
You certainly don't need to go higher than the 16uf caps it came with. F&T's are great. If you do want to go bigger, don't forget the limitations of a tube rectifier!
Overall it's a nice early player grade blackface DR, thanks to the bad recover, no recover will change that. So get it serviced, by someone that knows what he's doing and play it!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #38
Here for the gear
 

Ok i got the pictures blown up. It's had some changes in the normal channel, I didn't look but maybe they put reverb on both channels at the same time too. You can see the caps there aren't originals.
You got a good deal on it right?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #39
Gear Head
 

Here'some high res pics of the chassis. The only change made so far is I put a grounded plug on it and pulled the death cap.
Attached Thumbnails
Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280336.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280337.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280338.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280339.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280340.jpg  

Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280341.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280342.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280343.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280344.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280345.jpg  

Old 4 weeks ago
  #40
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ponzi's Avatar
Clearly those are not fender speakers as has been said. I wonder how much power they can handle? They look like some thing that came out of a 1950s stereo 'console'--complete with a non-functional 'tweeter' cone. Didn't those things normally use pairs of el84/6bq5 type tubes--17 watts a pair? What has me puzzled is I can't decide if they were painted by dude who thought they belonged in a guitar amp. All the speaks I have seen with those tiny alnico magnets are bare metal. Why is a company going to spend money painting some thing that has never been seen? Its that wrinkly finish paint that I see on a lot of older lab gear, but it comes in spray cans, I have used it myself. The sloppy white painted numbers on the speaker back make me lean strongly to conclude some sort of amateur effort is at work. Interesting.

Just my opinion, but IIRC the deluxe only has one speak, so if this fell into my hands (not looking for any fenders though), I would buy some sort of speaker that is designed for guitar and perhaps designed to emulate early fenders. Is the deluxe two 6v6 in power stage? 14 watts, so a lower powered speaker can be used that can have a thin cone and be more responsive. Eminence has tons of these. They can't speak of other brands, so you need to figure out which speaker their vintage recreations are emulating.

PS. Have not seen a lot of early fenders, but I believe they have a stick on label on the magnet that says either jensen or fender--can't recall what the jbl d series speakers had but probably a fender lablel.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #41
Gear Head
 

You're right the rectifier tube is a 5Y3.

Yeah I was bummed it was missing the tube chart.

The gater skin covering doesn't look sloppy to me at all. The more I look at it side by side with my 73 silverface you can see it was done exactly the same way except for the staples and corner guards. They may have never stapled tolex, but they did on this gater skin. It is thicker. That's why the foil tape was applied. It was a bear removing that chassis. I plan on being thorough with servicing so it doesn't have to come out for another 50 years!

The speaker attenuator and the wiring look to be from the same period and matches the speaker wire. The screws and washers used to attach the attenuator look suspect as far as period goes.

I know nothing about the speaker and can only bow to the better judgment of the folks here.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerzilly View Post
...I know nothing about the speaker and can only bow to the better judgment of the folks here.
I don't claim to have better judgement, its just fun to think about what would personally make me feel good--no right or wrong. As another poster said, if it sounds good to you, then its good. I do believe its not a fender, but that is a question of fact, not of how it sounds.

I might be a little concerned about what sort of impedence or impedence range the attentuator presents to the amp. If it went outside the amp design specs, don't know if it would strain the amp. Maybe others have more informed opinions on that. All I can say is its something to think about. There are those here who probably have encyclopedic knowledge of fender products, but in my own experience and from browsing schematics, I do not believe the attenuator was a fender product--maybe it was sold by someone else in mid 60s.

At the risk of getting flamed, I personally never liked the sound of a dimed out distorted deluxe--to me its a great clean machine, so is attenuator really needed?

Tube chart is cool, but schematics are readily available now in the internet. That was not the case in 1964.

For sure, do put in the correct rectifier tube--don't want to fry the power transformer by overloading with a filament that draws current outside of design spec. Also might impact plate voltage.

Might want to check the static dc voltages as well compared to schematic values. Those carbon resistors can migrate 10-20% from their original color code values. They are also noisy compared to carbon film--a question of performance versus authenticity.

PS. Trivia for all: Why do rectifier tubes have 5 volt filaments while other tubes are 6.3? I asked an antique radio expert and he did not know why. Wondered that since I was a kid in the 1960s.I know they need a separate winding that can handle the 1,000 volts peak to peak, or whatever, away from the chassis ground.

Last edited by ponzi; 4 weeks ago at 10:23 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #43
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kafka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
You can't DIY one unless you own a machine shop.
Sure you can. You can buy a field coil speaker, and then you can make a variable power supply like FluxTone does. No machine shop required.

Well, maybe you can't. But it's just a question of figuring it out, and doing it. Probably a lot of people can.


Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Not the same. Gator embossed is pretty common, relatively cheap, and available. Real gator leather, despite the abundance of gators, not so much.
OP's isn't real gator skin, unless you can find me a gator with two bellies and two or three backs. The pattern on the top and back pieces tell you everything you need to know. The pattern repeats exactly over the width. It's embossed leather, not gator.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #44
Here for the gear
 

The two blue caps all the way over to the left side in those pictures are not original, the rest of the blue caps are correct for a blackface. There's one dull brown cap in there and those were used on blackfaces, in that one spot.
A 5y3 rectifier has the same heater current as a GZ34 so it won't hurt the PT. 5y3s have lower voltage and don't flow as much current so you'll get more "sag". If you like it, bias for it and only use old USA 5y3s, they're dirt cheap.
Why are rectifier tubes 5 volts? Good question! There were 6 volt heater rectifier tubes too but those were small, but we're used in amps like the 18 watt Marshall.
For what ever reason 5 volts was standard on big rectifier tubes, probably started years ago like pre WWII and just stuck. But there's no reason I can think of why they could've made a PT with a bigger 6 volt winding. Except the rectifier they wanted to use were already 5 volts.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #45
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerzilly View Post
I just got my hands on a 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb with alligator skin. Does anyone know if this was a custom factory job or aftermarket? ...
The Good News: The chassis, transformers and most of the circuit looks factory-original.

The Bad News: The alligator covering, baffleboard, foil tape, speaker, grill cloth, logo, and speaker attenuator box are definitely not factory original. The tone stack caps for the Normal channel have been changed. The rear panels have been painted at least, as has part of the interior of the cabinet. All knobs except the two for the tremolo have been repainted (or are reproductions, but most likely the numbers have been repainted). The speaker looks like it could be a 12" CTS alnico, but as someone else pointed out, Fender never used whizzer cones on their amps in the 60's. Too bad the previous owner painted over the speaker frame as well and obscured the markings.

It's probably a great sounding amp, and would sound even better with the right speaker. Do get a GZ34 for it rather than that 5Y3 (Chinese perhaps? Not many American 5Y3s have that particular shape...).
Old 4 weeks ago
  #46
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kafka's Avatar
I think it's a great looking piece of functional folk art. Get it into playable shape, and leave the cosmetics as-is. I'd leave the attenuator on it if it works. Bound to be useful, and just turn it all the way up if you don't want to attenuate.

There's a better speaker for it. I wouldn't get hung up on era-correct. It's a 55 yo amp. Just get something that sounds good to you, whatever that is.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #47
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Its a great amp, just much less collectible due to non original parts and mods. Unless one wants to stock a home fender museum, these amps are players and great to use.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #48
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post
OP's isn't real gator skin, unless you can find me a gator with two bellies and two or three backs. The pattern on the top and back pieces tell you everything you need to know. The pattern repeats exactly over the width. It's embossed leather, not gator.
That is an awesome observation! The texture had me fooled. But the bellie pattern clearly repeats.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerzilly View Post
That is an awesome observation! The texture had me fooled. But the bellie pattern clearly repeats.
It's a very nice piece. I like that hard shiny look.

I have a few pieces of embossed 'gator' leather, including the maroon one. The maroon is my favorite, and will end up on an amp or maybe a seat covering of some kind.

Real gator leather isn't really practical for an amp, and also isn't really necessary. Take a look here and it'll give you an idea of what a real skin looks like, and what they cost. I doubt there are very many out there on amps, if any at all.

Alligator Skin
Old 4 weeks ago
  #50
Gear Head
 

I want to thank everyone who's looked over this artifact of mine and shared your thoughts and observations. This is a bit of a mystery amp for sure! For me it's a chance to get my hands into a pre-cbs blackface amp. I recently fell victim to the tube amp addiction. My son is the guitar player. He's fifteen. I just have a love of music and fixing things.

I first go my son an 80's Peavey Encore 65 tube amp. Then I picked up a 70's Peavey Classic transtube amp. Honestly my son likes the Peavey Classic. But everyone talks with reverence about the vintage fender amp tone, so I got my hands on a 77 Super Reverb. Wow what a sound! My son is happy. No problems. He has more amps than he'll need. But wait, the 77 silverface has a solid state rectifier. No problem for my son. He loves clean tone. But I know it's not the revered fender tone.

One saturday morning I'm looking at craigslist and I see a Sano amp for cheap. I got it. It's 18 watts with a 5Y3, 12AX&, 12AU7, two 6BQ5 power tubes, a 15" speaker and lights up of my current limiter. All P2P with terminal strips. The wiring looks immaculate and all orginal. I put on a grounded cord, replaced capacitors and few resistors and the amp sounds great! My son loves it! And he can play bass through it too!

But wait. The addiction has taken hold of me now. It is so cool finding and fixing these old amps and hearing how they sound. I picked up a cheap Silvertone 1430 with 35W4, 12AU6 and 50C5. The chassis was mounted upside down in a small fender cabinet. It had a shot vintage replacement speaker, the isolation transformer was wired wrong and the the caps were replaced with orange drops but not correctly. I repaired the cabinet, rewired everything and replaced the speaker. It sounds great! But it made me respect the build quality of the Fender. Two opposite sides of the spectrum.

So now my son is all amped out. He has plenty. But I'm having too much fun. I picked up a Supro Trojan with a 5Y3, 12AX7 and 6V6. Very cool amp! Guess what he likes it.

Enter the Fender Deluxe Reverb. I want another amp to work on. I want a fender amp with a tube rectifier. The DR has few circuit changes. I have my eye on a silverface, but also see an auction in CT for the alligator skin blackface. I got a decent deal on a 1973 silverface with blown speaker. Meanwhile I'm still watching the alligator skin blackface. Silly me. I bought it too. I just liked the appeal of the pre-cbs blackface amp.

This is just fun for me. I'm getting first hand experience with these different vintage amps. My son gets to discover the differences in tone the amps provide and it inspires him to play more. With a little luck the amps are worth what I paid for them.

So now I have this alligator skin (embroidered leather) 1964 DR. Does the alligator skin covering add value? Who knows. I won't find that out until I want to sell it. I will say that it has already been a ton of fun to have. If it were the standard black tolex there would be no discussion here. But the fact that it is different makes this an interesting project. I really enjoy hearing what everyone's thought and opinions are as I continue to sort this mystery out!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #51
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Clearly those are not fender speakers as has been said. I wonder how much power they can handle? They look like some thing that came out of a 1950s stereo 'console'--complete with a non-functional 'tweeter' cone. Didn't those things normally use pairs of el84/6bq5 type tubes--17 watts a pair? What has me puzzled is I can't decide if they were painted by dude who thought they belonged in a guitar amp. All the speaks I have seen with those tiny alnico magnets are bare metal. Why is a company going to spend money painting some thing that has never been seen? Its that wrinkly finish paint that I see on a lot of older lab gear, but it comes in spray cans, I have used it myself. The sloppy white painted numbers on the speaker back make me lean strongly to conclude some sort of amateur effort is at work. Interesting.

Just my opinion, but IIRC the deluxe only has one speak, so if this fell into my hands (not looking for any fenders though), I would buy some sort of speaker that is designed for guitar and perhaps designed to emulate early fenders. Is the deluxe two 6v6 in power stage? 14 watts, so a lower powered speaker can be used that can have a thin cone and be more responsive. Eminence has tons of these. They can't speak of other brands, so you need to figure out which speaker their vintage recreations are emulating.

PS. Have not seen a lot of early fenders, but I believe they have a stick on label on the magnet that says either jensen or fender--can't recall what the jbl d series speakers had but probably a fender lablel.
The Deluxe is more like 20 watts -= it's an (adjustable) fixed bias amp, n ot a cathode bias amp likle the Princeton.

The funny little cone is called a "whizzer". They were found on quite a few hi-fi speakers in the '50s and '60s, including some rather expensive, high power speakers by E-V and Altec - which this is obviously not. They were not used in guitar amps. The magnet size is appropriate for a speaker in the 20-30 watt range. Alnico magnets are much smaller than ceramic magnets and sit inside the voice coil, which looks to me to probably be around 1", not outside like on a ceramic. Very often the actual magnet assembly on these old alnicos was covered by a large stamped metal "bell", which served no function except to make the magnet look bigger. If this was my amp I'd probably replace the speaker with a modern Alnico speaker rated around 25 watts, that should be about right. Weber makes some nice ones.

I have never seen a speaker of this type that was bare metal and I've seen a lot of them. The reason they're not bare metal is that the frame is cheap stamped steel and cheap stamped steel rusts if it's not painted, just from the humidity in the atmosphere. Usual colors are silver (which might be mistaken for bare metal), grey, and black - but I've never seen one in wrinkle-finish black that I can recall unless it came out of something like some old DuCane audio-visual gear or an old movie projector rig.

Most stock Fender speakers from this era have a blue sticker that says "Fender Special Design". Older Fenders may have Jensens with the bell cover and a Jensen label. It doesn't matter here because this is clearly not a stock Fender speaker, not with a whizzer cone.

THe first JBL equipped Fenders had standard grey JBL paint with the metal stick-on JBL label. Later, post CBS Fender JBLs had an orange frame with a black magnet and a label that said something like "Fender Special Design with a small JBL logo - I'm not going to go move my JBL equipped Twin Reverb to look at the label because it weighs too damn much.

AFAIK Fender did not ship Deluxe Reverbs with JBLs.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #52
Gear Head
 

That's great information John. Thank you! I only tested the amp with speaker briefly. Other than the 60 cycle hum, it had a nice tone. I'm waiting on parts now. I'm very curious to hear how the speaker sounds once I have the amp serviced. The ears will tell all. If is doesn't sound good, it's gone. Being that it was repaired I have less hope for a decent speaker. But you never know. Maybe it's still sounds good.

I will say, after reading thoughts about the speaker, I looked more closely at it. It does appear to be factory original paint for the speaker. Not that I'm an expert. I scratched a small area were I thought there could be markings, but it's bear metal under the paint. There is a red dot to mark the positive terminal that appears original to the speaker. There is a white painted graffiti message on the bottom of the speaker frame that says "Class of '05". Other than than the graffiti and the repair, speaker looks in original condition.

Again, none of this really matters if the speaker sounds like sh#t. When I get the amp put back together and I can let my ears be the judge, I'll report back!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #53
Gear Head
 

Here are better pics of the cabinet.
Attached Thumbnails
Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280364.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280365.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280366.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280367.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280368.jpg  

Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280369.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280370.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280371.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280372.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280373.jpg  

Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280374.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280375.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280376.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280377.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280378.jpg  

Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280379.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280380.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280381.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280382.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280383.jpg  

Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280383.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280384.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280385.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280386.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280406.jpg  

Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280407.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280408.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280395.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280396.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280397.jpg  

Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280398.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280399.jpg   Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280400.jpg  
Old 4 weeks ago
  #54
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ponzi's Avatar
So, nice covering on the cabinet, the amp looks pretty good--so the basis of a good pre-bs deluxe as has been discussed. I think the metal tape is not fender, but I think lots of folks add it in an effort to reduce hum or noise--doesn't hurt anything--pretty sure thats metal duct tape. Not liking the attenuator, after seeing more of it. No muy bien.

Its now clear that attenuator is homemade (not a purchased product of any sort), and junky at that. Its clearly a metal bracket/box from something else thats been re-used, as it has unused screw holes and the 1/4 inch socket is on the edge of the bracket where the bracket will tend to flex most when plugged and unplugged. Its pretty easy to find a dial like that just held on by the potentiometer screw. I do recommend taking that off the amp and out of the circuit as the fender amp was not designed to drive some sort of amateur created speaker based volume control. Obviously not fender screws (countersunk screws with washers) holding it to the wood in the amp.

There are obviously professionally made speaker attentuators if one feels it is necessary. They are designed to present the proper load to the amp to keep it within design spec. Yes, I am a big fan of design spec.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
...I have never seen a speaker of this type that was bare metal and I've seen a lot of them. The reason they're not bare metal is that the frame is cheap stamped steel and cheap stamped steel rusts if it's not painted, just from the humidity in the atmosphere...
I guess I haven't seen a ton of speakers, but as I kid I used to take apart color tvs and those old all in one stereo consoles. None were painted speaker baskets. I guess its not a bare metal finish, but some sort of galvanized finish. I have seen the same finish on older celestions from marshall amps--maybe the vintage 30s were painted, but the speaks out of 1970s marshall cabs--metal/galvanized stamped frame and ceramic mag with a celestion sticker.

This finish also takes on corroded finger prints from time to time.

The JBLs D and K had aluminum frames and IIRC a nice black anodized finish on the frame K black, D grey. IIRC Harvey Gerst said that D and K series had the same 'engine' (basket + magnet) only difference being voice coil and cone/spider to handle more power.

So, the 'fender' orange JBLs D120F and only in fender twins, a highest power amp for stage? I understand they have the same parts as D120 except for the custom paint job and are quite collectible--at least among old timers. The JBLs off topic, but I love to talk about them. Forgotten masterpieces.

My dad had a 'hi fi' speaker (mono system) and it had an altec speaker in it--of course that was nicely painted.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #56
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Ingram View Post
It's probably a great sounding amp, and would sound even better with the right speaker. Do get a GZ34 for it rather than that 5Y3 (Chinese perhaps? Not many American 5Y3s have that particular shape...).
Its a Tongsol made in USA.
Attached Thumbnails
Alligator Skin 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb-p1280410.jpg  
Old 4 weeks ago
  #57
Gear Nut
 

Put a pair of 6L6GC's in there, re-bias it, and enjoy .. the amp will sound punchier and fatter.


Old 4 weeks ago
  #58
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerzilly View Post
Its a Tongsol made in USA.
Gotcha! A 5Y3G, which is the coke-bottle shape used prior to the straight-sided 5Y3GT.

There are many Chinese rectifier tubes floating around that are new production but use the big coke-bottle shape. I'd still recommend finding a 5Y3GT so you have less mass dangling from the socket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerzilly View Post
... after reading thoughts about the speaker, I looked more closely at it. It does appear to be factory original paint for the speaker. ... There is a white painted graffiti message on the bottom of the speaker frame that says "Class of '05". Other than than the graffiti and the repair, speaker looks in original condition. ...
Why the continued insistence on "factory original"?

As I mentioned before, the speakers looked like 12" CTS alnicos, and after some more looking I believe they are CTS 7010 speakers with the whizzer cone. Someone gave them the "Krylon Touch" with some matte black, and appeared to get a little overspray onto the cone itself. Probably the same stuff they used for the inside of the cabinet & the attenuator box. See below for the original coloring:

https://i.imgur.com/U5WQuRI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FWAoLur.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/pJ3wwMo.jpg
Old 4 weeks ago
  #59
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ponzi's Avatar
Thought I posted this already, but 6l6 draws more heater current than 6v6, so may take transformer out of design spec. To the extent this is a problem for the transformer, I don't know.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #60
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Its now clear that attenuator is homemade (not a purchased product of any sort), and junky at that. Its clearly a metal bracket/box from something else thats been re-used, as it has unused screw holes and the 1/4 inch socket is on the edge of the bracket where the bracket will tend to flex most when plugged and unplugged. Its pretty easy to find a dial like that just held on by the potentiometer screw. I do recommend taking that off the amp and out of the circuit as the fender amp was not designed to drive some sort of amateur created speaker based volume control. Obviously not fender screws (countersunk screws with washers) holding it to the wood in the amp.

There are obviously professionally made speaker attentuators if one feels it is necessary. They are designed to present the proper load to the amp to keep it within design spec. Yes, I am a big fan of design spec.
It's called a L-pad, it's one of the most basic speaker attenuator circuits. That one was probably sourced from a hobbyist electronic source like Allied or Layfayette in the mid '60s and installed into a repurposed box. The big white rectangular thing is a 20 ohm wirewound resistor. To use it as a pad one side has had the insulating grout ground away so the wiper can contact the coil in the resistor. Such pads were sold for use a speaker level controls or frequency balance controls and mounted on the back plate of hi-fi speakers in that era. They were also commonly used in the crossovers of commercially sold Hi-Fi speakers. The dial would have been included in the package from the electronics supplier.

I'm not a big fan of speaker attenuators in general but this one probably isn't much worse than any other very basic 20 watt attenuator.
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