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Guitar practice with composition in mind Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 12th December 2018
  #1
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Guitar practice with composition in mind

For some time now the biggest struggle I have found when it comes to making music is how to practice my guitar playing, the way I naturally did with the piano.

Basically I want to pickup a guitar and get what i'm hearing in my head out, as fast and as effortlessly as I can, again, as I can do on the piano.

What would you, imaginary experienced guitar player i'm talking to, would suggest me to practice?

I think what I need is to know the fretboard really well, but the books I pickup have an approach that I feel I'm not really evolving on what I need to.
Old 12th December 2018
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfilipee View Post
For some time now the biggest struggle I have found when it comes to making music is how to practice my guitar playing, the way I naturally did with the piano.

Basically I want to pickup a guitar and get what i'm hearing in my head out, as fast and as effortlessly as I can, again, as I can do on the piano.

What would you, imaginary experienced guitar player i'm talking to, would suggest me to practice?

I think what I need is to know the fretboard really well, but the books I pickup have an approach that I feel I'm not really evolving on what I need to.
As a piano player, also, I share your frustration. I can play chords and patterns as I learn them but I've never really "grokked" the fretboard and can't translate the written music to it. And you're right. Most books seem to emphasize chord or fretboard patterns that really don't translate well to a 'classically' trained pianist. I think the problem may be the age at which you start. I can read piano music the same as I read a book. Can, also, do it on a trumpet. Grew up doing it. Guitar? Not.

Frustrating for someone like me who absolutely loves the guitar. Acoustic and electric.

That being said. I can play well enough to entertain myself, and sometimes others.
Old 12th December 2018
  #3
Site reading and playing what's in your head for guitar takes years, I have been told (I'm nowhere near yet). No quick fix I think. My fretboard learning exercise is from the JustinGuitar site, but is only available in his paid Music Theory or Intermediate DVD courses. Did find this thread over on his forum though, applies to someone just like you coming from piano, and has loads of good tips:

Learning the notes on the fretboard
Old 12th December 2018
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfilipee View Post
For some time now the biggest struggle I have found when it comes to making music is how to practice my guitar playing, the way I naturally did with the piano.

Basically I want to pickup a guitar and get what i'm hearing in my head out, as fast and as effortlessly as I can, again, as I can do on the piano.

What would you, imaginary experienced guitar player i'm talking to, would suggest me to practice?

I think what I need is to know the fretboard really well, but the books I pickup have an approach that I feel I'm not really evolving on what I need to.
learn major/minor scale, memorize the intervals and different ways to play them using different combinations of strings

scales are built in to the piano, not so with the guitar.... once you know the shapes of the intervals on the guitar and the overall shape of the scales you might have an easier time knowing where what's in your head is going to be

once you learn chord shapes (esp barre chord shapes), patterns might become more obvious to you too, but open chords are great for beginner composition

another option is to learn the segovia scales... they can span a few octaves at least.... this is really just if you hang around major/minor territory
Old 12th December 2018
  #5
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Of course its harder on a guitar rather than a piano.

A piano is ONE linear string of notes from low to high.
A Guitar is SIX linear strings of notes that are offset from each other.

Learn your major and minor scale patterns. Its just one of each to start with and learn them in an "open" position so that you know how to move them anywhere. THat's a pattern across the fingerboard that I'm talking about. Learn them up each string as well after that.

To be honest, I don't know or practice them all myself. You learn what you need to learn to start with and then slowly add to your knowledge by practicing.

The guitar is NOT an easy instrument really even though at a basic level some simple chords aren't THAT hard.
Old 12th December 2018
  #6
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eternalsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfilipee View Post
would suggest me to practice?
Golden.
Old 12th December 2018
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
Of course its harder on a guitar rather than a piano.

A piano is ONE linear string of notes from low to high.
A Guitar is SIX linear strings of notes that are offset from each other.

Learn your major and minor scale patterns. Its just one of each to start with and learn them in an "open" position so that you know how to move them anywhere. THat's a pattern across the fingerboard that I'm talking about. Learn them up each string as well after that.

To be honest, I don't know or practice them all myself. You learn what you need to learn to start with and then slowly add to your knowledge by practicing.

The guitar is NOT an easy instrument really even though at a basic level some simple chords aren't THAT hard.
There are "easy" instruments? You mean like, to play well?

If you are a complete beginner, learning where you are on the fretboard, and realizing there are 2 ways to play everything on a guitar fretboard in any 4 fret space. Major and minor scales, absolutely. And if you are already a piano player, learn them "by the notes" first, instead of using the TAB/number/fret position method.This will increase your knowledge of the fretboard quickly, with better rentention of where the notes actually are. Which will come in handy with chords, inversions, etc....
Old 12th December 2018
  #8
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You can play the piano, so you are a musician.

Try to write down a the slow, basic, childish version of you have in mind, then fill it, piece by piece, with more notes (only in the place where you need more notes).
If you have not the speed in the finger to do those notes, practice that miniloop 2 minutes per day, for some days, so it becomes easy like turning the lights on.
Then, add colors, add tension. Add drama.
Once the collage is done, practice it a bit in the full version. Record. Edit.
Song done.
Old 12th December 2018
  #9
Most people when they "get out what they hear" improvising are really more depending on riffs, so it's more rationalization of reuse than original thought. To that end you need to learn how the sounds feel - learning intervals, chords, scales and modes and riffs is all important but not for how they sound or the technique they bring so much as learning how the fretboard feels under your fingers and making a cognitive connection between the sound and the hand shapes and fretboard location.

Start out as you mean to go on, learn the patterns of the songs that you love and know already rather than making sounds you don't love, and play along to recordings of them. Being able to shift your hand between different chord shapes is important and it's a learned reflex you will use when composing with the instrument.

Otherwise it's just putting in the effort, practice practice practice. Not all instruments will come as easily to everyone. Nothing is instant no matter how talented you are.
Old 13th December 2018
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfilipee View Post
For some time now the biggest struggle I have found when it comes to making music is how to practice my guitar playing, the way I naturally did with the piano.

Basically I want to pickup a guitar and get what i'm hearing in my head out, as fast and as effortlessly as I can, again, as I can do on the piano.

What would you, imaginary experienced guitar player i'm talking to, would suggest me to practice?

I think what I need is to know the fretboard really well, but the books I pickup have an approach that I feel I'm not really evolving on what I need to.
in my opinion practicing exercises is contrary to really creative and original composition.

Which is NOT to say you shouldn't do it, it just doesn't really advance creativity.
Old 13th December 2018
  #11
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
learn tunes by ear, over and over and over.

Like piano, practice arpeggios over and over and over. They're more useful than arbitrary exercises.
Old 13th December 2018
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfilipee View Post
What would you, imaginary experienced guitar player i'm talking to, would suggest me to practice?
Right hand timing.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #13
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jiffybox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
in my opinion practicing exercises is contrary to really creative and original composition.

Which is NOT to say you shouldn't do it, it just doesn't really advance creativity.
Agreed. I’m glad I spent my teenage years doing scales and all, but when it comes to composition (the main reason I play guitar, I’m not really a shredder anymore) I never ever utilize scales in my composing. The thing that did it for me, that made me a more well rounded guitarist and composer was to almost think the complete opposite of exercises and scales. Once I let go of the “rules” and just experimented with odd chord shapes and happy accidents, that was freeing for me so now, even though I’m able to grab a guitar and play anything I’m hearing in my head, I find more satisfaction in having no idea what I’m doing or what chord is next or what scale I should follow. But perhaps that’s the old adage learn it by heart and then throw it out the window.

As for the pianist trying to adapt to the guitar, I have the opposite problem where I find it hard to grasp the piano after years of thinking on six strings.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
in my opinion practicing exercises is contrary to really creative and original composition.

Which is NOT to say you shouldn't do it, it just doesn't really advance creativity.
Agreed. But for someone who is 'transferring' instruments so to speak and already presumably has developed creative chops, it might just be a matter of showing them how to make the same 'sounds' on guitar as they do on piano. After all, they're asking how they can play what they're audiate-ing, no?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiffybox View Post
Agreed. I’m glad I spent my teenage years doing scales and all, but when it comes to composition (the main reason I play guitar, I’m not really a shredder anymore) I never ever utilize scales in my composing. The thing that did it for me, that made me a more well rounded guitarist and composer was to almost think the complete opposite of exercises and scales. Once I let go of the “rules” and just experimented with odd chord shapes and happy accidents, that was freeing for me so now, even though I’m able to grab a guitar and play anything I’m hearing in my head, I find more satisfaction in having no idea what I’m doing or what chord is next or what scale I should follow. But perhaps that’s the old adage learn it by heart and then throw it out the window.

As for the pianist trying to adapt to the guitar, I have the opposite problem where I find it hard to grasp the piano after years of thinking on six strings.
What do you mean by "Never Ever" use scales in composition? You mean consciously? So you are subconsciously composing without using scales.
Wow interesting. Please explain to me how you do this. Scales are the basis and root of everything you do in music. Post examples of your music, using this compositional technique. I want to learn....
Old 4 weeks ago
  #16
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sfilipee's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by untitled73 View Post
Agreed. But for someone who is 'transferring' instruments so to speak and already presumably has developed creative chops, it might just be a matter of showing them how to make the same 'sounds' on guitar as they do on piano. After all, they're asking how they can play what they're audiate-ing, no?
This is exactly my problem. With the piano if I hear a chord progression in my head or an arpeggio or just a cool run, I can sit down and play it. And mind you I'm not that great of a player, but I know where everything is.

On the guitar I really struggle with it.

I can play a lot of stuff on the guitar that a lot of people find complex or advanced, that's not the issue, but I don't know the guitar itself like I need to to be transparent in my compositions and recordings.

It's hard to explain, mostly because I don't know how I got it with the piano.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #17
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Practicing basics like scales and modes allows you to sublimate these mechanical exercises and use them without thinking, and they become part of your musical vocabulary. Your creativity is greatly enhanced when you know these things by reflex, and are able to express them as you express your feelings when you speak. The greatest improvisers that ever played an instrument, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Armstrong, Parker, Gillespie, Rollins, and Coltrane could play them damn scales backwards and sideways, and use them to express a musical thought. Olivier Messiaen...Invented his own scales, which he used to create his own language on the pipe organ, and are some the the most original and wildly creative pieces of music yet written.

Knowing scales and modes also allows communication with other musicians, in a very concise and unambiguous way....Learn your scales and modes and practice them until they are as familiar as your own name.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #18
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jiffybox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKMK00 View Post
What do you mean by "Never Ever" use scales in composition? You mean consciously? So you are subconsciously composing without using scales.
Wow interesting. Please explain to me how you do this. Scales are the basis and root of everything you do in music. Post examples of your music, using this compositional technique. I want to learn....
What a delightful tone. What I meant, without resorting to semantics here, is that the last thing I’m consciously trying to think about when I compose is, say, the pentatonic scales that I practiced over and over when I was first learning. I’m not consciously thinking in circle of fifths. Obviously scales are the foundation and you can’t really create music without it conforming to some key or scale (unless you’re a Cage or a Branca or a Zorn) but I’m just saying I try not to follow those patterns for lack of a better term. When I have tried to compose by staying within maybe an A pentatonic scale or a Lydian scale, I feel boxed in. I need to feel the sensation, as false as it might actually be, to follow the sound, not the scale necessarily. I just want it to sound new and unexpected in my ears, to let go of any constraint.

It’s not a new compositional technique and my music doesn’t sound any different than anyone else’s in the end, but the approach is unique to my ears. It’s like walking through a pitch black room that you’ve walked through your entire life; you know where every obstacle is, but you can’t see it so every step has the potential to bump into something.

As for composing or sketching on piano, I have to stay within a scale because it’s foreign to me, but seeing as I don’t have piano scales memorized, sometimes when I just put my fingers there or over there, I’ll hear something that I would have never thought of. Happy accidents as I say and it’s often a fun way to write.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfilipee View Post
This is exactly my problem. With the piano if I hear a chord progression in my head or an arpeggio or just a cool run, I can sit down and play it. And mind you I'm not that great of a player, but I know where everything is.

On the guitar I really struggle with it.

I can play a lot of stuff on the guitar that a lot of people find complex or advanced, that's not the issue, but I don't know the guitar itself like I need to to be transparent in my compositions and recordings.

It's hard to explain, mostly because I don't know how I got it with the piano.
The best part of this? That last line. You make it seem like magic. And it aint magic. How many hours did you put in before you could easily pick something out on a piano keyboard, or play a piece of music with a degree of competence?

Its really hard to be competent on one instrument. You better plan on become a Monk if you are trying to master 2.

When did you pick up a guitar, and how many hours a day do you practice?

It takes 2 years of daily practice to become competent...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiffybox View Post
What a delightful tone. What I meant, without resorting to semantics here, is that the last thing I’m consciously trying to think about when I compose is, say, the pentatonic scales that I practiced over and over when I was first learning. I’m not consciously thinking in circle of fifths. Obviously scales are the foundation and you can’t really create music without it conforming to some key or scale (unless you’re a Cage or a Branca or a Zorn) but I’m just saying I try not to follow those patterns for lack of a better term. When I have tried to compose by staying within maybe an A pentatonic scale or a Lydian scale, I feel boxed in. I need to feel the sensation, as false as it might actually be, to follow the sound, not the scale necessarily. I just want it to sound new and unexpected in my ears, to let go of any constraint.

It’s not a new compositional technique and my music doesn’t sound any different than anyone else’s in the end, but the approach is unique to my ears. It’s like walking through a pitch black room that you’ve walked through your entire life; you know where every obstacle is, but you can’t see it so every step has the potential to bump into something.

As for composing or sketching on piano, I have to stay within a scale because it’s foreign to me, but seeing as I don’t have piano scales memorized, sometimes when I just put my fingers there or over there, I’ll hear something that I would have never thought of. Happy accidents as I say and it’s often a fun way to write.
Okay...you can "hear" my tone over the internet. Gotcha....
Old 4 weeks ago
  #21
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jiffybox's Avatar
What’s your point?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiffybox View Post
What’s your point?
I feel like I expressed exactly what I wanted to in my previous communication.

Have a nice Christmas!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfilipee View Post
This is exactly my problem. With the piano if I hear a chord progression in my head or an arpeggio or just a cool run, I can sit down and play it. And mind you I'm not that great of a player, but I know where everything is.

On the guitar I really struggle with it.
Maybe, because at piano you hit the key and the piano does the rest giving the always same note (except forte and piano).
With a guitar you have to control the string in both extremities, slide, bend... and pitch can change also if you pick with more pression.
Also bigger strings have different sound even when you hit the same note in the same octave of the smaller string below. And the guitar amplifier tone and fx chain is 50% of the sound (maybe high to 70/80% with modern tones or dirty cleans...)

So you have a more physical approach with the vibrating item.

A guitar is a guitar. A piano is a piano.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #24
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May I suggest that you practice your linear chord progressions as a way to learn the entire fretboard.
This means Barre chords.

Take a simple D maj chord. XX0232. Now a d min chord, XX0231.
The Scale tone chords will be D maj, E min, F# min, G maj, A maj B min, C dim, D maj.
Now using just a short Barre chord slide the scale up the neck using just the maj or min form. Skip the 7dim to start with but find it for your own reference if you like.

Do the same with an A maj scale, an E Maj scale, a C maj scale.
You get the idea. Learn your linear chord scales.

Now in Guitar music playing a song just using the linear scale chords will sound weird and no one really does it that much. The Guitar "sound" we are used to comes from going sideways to the 4th or 5th scale tone chord yet learning your linear chord scales is an exercise in learning and opening up the fretboard to you.

A common movement would be to go sideways from the root to the 4th and then slide the 4th up two frets to the 5th. There are many variations and as you learn the linear scales you can think about how they relate to the linear scale beside them.

Last edited by AnthonyG; 4 weeks ago at 12:41 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfilipee View Post
This is exactly my problem. With the piano if I hear a chord progression in my head or an arpeggio or just a cool run, I can sit down and play it. And mind you I'm not that great of a player, but I know where everything is.

On the guitar I really struggle with it.

I can play a lot of stuff on the guitar that a lot of people find complex or advanced, that's not the issue, but I don't know the guitar itself like I need to to be transparent in my compositions and recordings.

It's hard to explain, mostly because I don't know how I got it with the piano.
The piano is set up so you can intuitively do this. I'm not even a piano player and I can get around and play what I want almost off the bat because I know what scale I'm imagining and the intervals on those scales are 'set up' so that, for example, a fifth will span a total of 5 of the keys on the scale.

I should also say that the piano is set up so that the major scale and the diatonic modes can all be played by dragging your finger from left to right on the white keys (each beginning on a different natural key, obviously).. Of course, switching keys with these scales is the confusing part.

On guitar, there's no similar short cut to playing a 'scale,' but the payoff is in the fact that each is easily transposed to any key on the fretboard (I'm sure you're aware of all of this). Any scale in any key is the same difficulty aside from how far you have to stretch your fingers. This makes 'how you will sound' harder to understand for the beginner, but easier to progress once you get to intermediate level.

The guitar is two dimensional. That's why you're having issues. You need to know the SHAPES of the intervals. **** isn't left to right anymore. Scales will help you do that, and so will finding many different ways to play them. The Segovia scales I mentioned above aren't particularly useful for doing what you want but they might give you a better idea of some of the shapes that will equate to certain intervals.

Once you know your intervals, you have to learn how to make different quality chords with the root on each different string (until you reach the G string for triads, obviously). Learn different inversions, etc. This will help your vocabulary for certain.

Another exercise is playing the correct triads and seventh chords up the scale. This will help you understand how the chords 'cycle' across and down the fretboard. You can literally go up the neck towards your right hand, or down the strings towards the floor the typical way you'd play a scale.

But fluency will only come with effort to turn your audiate-ing into real music after doing the aforementioned exercises. It's gonna suck for while but you'll get the hang of it if you actually stick to it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #26
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Guitar is, or can be, much more geometrical.
I would say the guitar is more dimensional compared to piano as a previous poster mentioned.
Piano is no joke though. I wish I could play piano half as good as guitar.
It would seem to me that the problem for most folks coming from piano would be the b string being a major 3rd instead where all others are a perfect 4th from the previous string.
This is simple enough to compensate for and it is this way so that chords can be played much easier.

If you learn the octave shapes and where your 3rds and 5ths areas you can construct chords, you’re on your way. And it’s easy enough. The shapes are the same up and down the fretboard until you get to the b string.
Starting on the low E string you have what most would probably visualize as an L shape (open emailer chord) . Then the A string is more of two lines parallel to each other (open A major chord)
A major chord starting on the d string would be a diamond pattern (open d chord).
Picking up what I’m putting down?

Some folks will tell you to use formulas to construct chords and scales. I think most guitarists use a lot of visualization in terms of shapes and patterns. Not unlike plenty of piano players.
So you just learn those shapes and patterns and toy with them. Experiment.
Perhaps an important thing to note here is that It doesn’t have to make sense from a music theory standpoint. You can figure that out later.
Music theory is more of a language to communicate things.
So if you’re trying to get really into the theory part of it, that might be your problem.
I’m not saying to avoid that.
I’m suggesting you digest small chunks at a time of theory on guitar while having fun learning songs.

There are lots of nuances, lots of dynamics on guitar that are different from piano as well.
Just have fun with learning these things.
Find some relatively easy songs you like, learn them and learn them well.
The technique part isn’t necessarily easy, but it’s a lot of fun learning from so many other great guitarists. Learning their songs. Eventually being able to string together different styles and techniques and putting your own spin on it.
Not to be trite, but that’s the foundation for many, arguably all musical compositions.
Even if it’s something you hear in your head, it’s based off of hearing various other songs.
You need to learn those songs first. Look at those artists influences, learn some of their songs and styles as well.
What is it that makes their style, their style? What attracts you to it?


Edit; my point about the chords and my point overall here is this.
Try focusing on moveable shapes because that’s pretty much the foundation for playing guitar.
Once you understand how to move those shapes up and down the fretboard and what changes to make going across the fretboard, you get a better understanding of the fretboard overall and you can compose and you should see how to apply what you’ve learned on piano, to guitar.

Last edited by Tnevz; 4 weeks ago at 01:10 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #27
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patshep's Avatar
learn scales, triads and seventh chords in all inversions up and down the neck
learn intervals and where to find them all over the neck
then learn some blues, and you'll be more fluid
I'm the opposite of most of you, i have been playing guitar for like... well longer than i'd care to admit, but i still suck at piano
i don't want to be great at piano, but would love to find chords more easily, without looking for them, but i'm lazy as hell, i don't have a real piano though, maybe that would make me less lazy
Old 4 weeks ago
  #28
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by patshep View Post
learn scales, triads and seventh chords in all inversions up and down the neck
learn intervals and where to find them all over the neck
then learn some blues, and you'll be more fluid
I'm the opposite of most of you, i have been playing guitar for like... well longer than i'd care to admit, but i still suck at piano
i don't want to be great at piano, but would love to find chords more easily, without looking for them, but i'm lazy as hell, i don't have a real piano though, maybe that would make me less lazy
Just leave the "learn scales" part out.

When I used to give lessons, every player could play a scale pattern but almost none of them knew their chords. It's kind of annoying how that happens because they then need to be rewired with a chordal approach anyway.

I didn't know there was such a thing as finding chords on a piano, they're kind of there in front of you.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #29
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patshep's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwhistle View Post
Just leave the "learn scales" part out.

When I used to give lessons, every player could play a scale pattern but almost none of them knew their chords. It's kind of annoying how that happens because they then need to be rewired with a chordal approach anyway.

I didn't know there was such a thing as finding chords on a piano, they're kind of there in front of you.
This may sound harsh, but as a teacher isn't it your job to show them how a scale and a chord are really not separate at the end of the day??
chords are just groupings of scales played at the same time in the end...
i constantly see beginners asking if they should get books like 'chord chemistry' and i'm like 'hell no' that is garbage, learn to make your own freaking chords...
i've studied jazz guitar under many of the best jazz guitarists in the world and never heard this advice from any of them..

here is something i just ran across that may help you... may be more jazz oriented than you're looking for but i'm intrigued to try a couple of these esoteric ideas

Last edited by patshep; 4 weeks ago at 07:18 AM.. Reason: new idea
Old 4 weeks ago
  #30
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by patshep View Post
This may sound harsh, but as a teacher isn't it your job to show them how a scale and a chord are really not separate at the end of the day??
chords are just groupings of scales played at the same time in the end...
i constantly see beginners asking if they should get books like 'chord chemistry' and i'm like 'hell no' that is garbage, learn to make your own freaking chords...
i've studied jazz guitar under many of the best jazz guitarists in the world and never heard this advice from any of them..

here is something i just ran across that may help you... may be more jazz oriented than you're looking for but i'm intrigued to try a couple of these esoteric ideas
Hey chord chemistry is a good book!

That's great you've studied with such players. The chordal or chord tone approach is the "old school" way and generally considered better for developing an ear.

Now just my experience but the scalar approach tends to lead to wandering.

Maybe we're just misunderstanding each other here but this is from Berklee:

"It is relevant to point out here that the pioneers of jazz improvisation relied on their listening/hearing skills and their ability to accurately outline basic chord sound to guide their improvising and to create inspired melodies. They did not rely on the mechanics of chord scales. Beginning improvisers should, therefore, first experience how good it sounds and how right it feels to play inside the chords using only the chord tones before experiencing the allure and sophistication of chord scales. Improvising melodies using only chord tones connects the soloist to the song's harmony, giving him or her a feeling of oneness with the music. This is essential before a player can hear how to use chord scales and nonharmonic approach notes effectively."
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loglady / So much gear, so little time
33
deadroom / So much gear, so little time
9
nukmusic / So much gear, so little time
4
PoorGlory / So many guitars, so little time
16

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