The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Guitars for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Juszkiewicz is out! Modulation Plugins
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
Lives for gear
Exclamation Juszkiewicz is out!

Hadn't seen this mentioned yet. I know it's been predicted but now it seems to be official.
Bloomberg - Gibson
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
Hadn't seen this mentioned yet. I know it's been predicted but now it seems to be official.
Bloomberg - Gibson
Yeah, that's actually kinda old news. The question now is whether he will b e replaced with somebody even worse. From what I've read a person who is a guitar person or a person experienced in music retail does not appear to be a very high priority (or even a priority at all) with the current people in charge of the process.

This is likely to be disastrous for the future of Gibson as a builder of high quality instruments.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Yeah, that's actually kinda old news. The question now is whether he will b e replaced with somebody even worse. From what I've read a person who is a guitar person or a person experienced in music retail does not appear to be a very high priority (or even a priority at all) with the current people in charge of the process.

This is likely to be disastrous for the future of Gibson as a builder of high quality instruments.
We'll see. Interesting times.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
Hadn't seen this mentioned yet. I know it's been predicted but now it seems to be official.
Bloomberg - Gibson
"The new Gibson, run by collectors for collectors." ??
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robal View Post
"The new Gibson, run by collectors for collectors." ??
Well, if true, and if it doesn't get knocked off the rails, this looks encouraging. I hope so. It would be nice to have been wrong about this.
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Lives for gear
 

The board will predominantly be guitarists...

you know, the sort of people that do not think buying a DAW company, or a consumer electronics company would be smart for a guitar maker..

its called retrenchment, and its a real good thing for the Gibson brand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robal View Post
"The new Gibson, run by collectors for collectors." ??
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Guitar sales are way down. Gibson also over-expanded into areas no guitar builder should go. Now Gibson isn't even at NAMM anymore.
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Lives for gear
 
ProgFree's Avatar
 

Not only Gibson stopped showing up at such events but Fender is also starting not to do it, and many other classic brands will follow. Was told by a person that works at one of these brands that for them it starts to make no sense to pay huge fees to have booths showing quality and craftsmanship side by side with booths packed with crappy Chinese copies of their products.
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Why would any quality manufacture want to have their products next to and compared to crappy Asian knock-offs at the largest trade show? That might increase their sales.
Old 1 week ago
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Why would any quality manufacture want to have their products next to and compared to crappy Asian knock-offs at the largest trade show? That might increase their sales.
Not if their quality isn't as good as it used to - or should - be.

Which is what happens when you fire most of your top craftsmen and start relying on your CNC machines.

When you can buy a Chibson that's virtually indistinguishable from the real thing except for the crappy electronics - and you can buy premium third party electronics for a lot less than the price differential that are better than yours - well, YOU do the math.

The next step down on the ladder is when you start selling at Wal-Mart and pull your franchises from all the mom and pop stores that helped build your reputation.
Old 1 week ago
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic38 View Post
The board will predominantly be guitarists...

you know, the sort of people that do not think buying a DAW company, or a consumer electronics company would be smart for a guitar maker..

its called retrenchment, and its a real good thing for the Gibson brand
Hopefully, if they do it right. If it's not too late.

First thing they should do is get back in to all the Mom and Pop stores and seriously cut back on what is available from the chains and online. That would go a long way toward rebuilding their retail network. The next thing should be to cut back on all the "special" production models. If somebody wants a Les Paul just like Zakk Wylde or whoever they can special order and pay a premium. It shouldn't be a catalog model and shouldn't be hanging in the stores.
Old 1 week ago
  #12
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
First thing they should do is get back in to all the Mom and Pop stores
Are there any left? I only know of a couple here and they mostly deal low end. I think Guitar Trader was the last and it went downhill pretty fast at the end.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
Are there any left? I only know of a couple here and they mostly deal low end. I think Guitar Trader was the last and it went downhill pretty fast at the end.
There would be if the manufacturers got behind them and quite doing sub-wholesale deals for the big boxers. Greed destroys everyone it touches sooner or later - the only question is when.
Old 1 week ago
  #14
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
There would be if the manufacturers got behind them and quite doing sub-wholesale deals for the big boxers. Greed destroys everyone it touches sooner or later - the only question is when.
So you're on the Gibson board, you eliminate the buy-in/yearly commitment contracts, you reduce the product line to 12 models, and then you send your sales guys out to woo back the remaining small stores .....

How do you move your company's Les Paul custom? In high quantities? Without the buy-in contract? Or even some of the somewhat lower $2000-$3000 models?

The tiny stores will simply keep pushing what they do now of their brand x stuff....plus the epiphones they already push at sub $1000 (Gibson continuing to collect there).

I know of 3 Les Paul customs at $4300 each, hanging on 3 different large store walls here in the LA area.

I don't envision any small operation bringing stuff like that in for stock. With no contract, little stores will only piecemeil special orders....cuz they don't have to commit.

And that is always a doom scenario for manufacturing unless the manufacturer is a guy in a garage. Which Gibson is not.

What do you propose? As a guy on the board? After you've done all that other stuff above?

Reduce the Les Paul custom price to the same as your Epiphone price?

What exactly do you mean when you propose Gibson "get behind" small retailers?
Old 1 week ago
  #15
Chi-com wood selection is not very good. All the Chi-com flame tops are veniers over mahogany. In comparison, my Les Paul Custom has a AAAA solid flame maple top, cut vertically. The neck is one piece mahogany as is the entire body. My custom "sweat shop" Epi Les Paul has nothing but laminations everywhere. There's not a piece of mahogany larger than 3" wide.

Yes, they sound completely different, acoustically. One of them sings, can you guess which?
Old 1 week ago
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
grannis's Avatar
Maybe it's different in the US compared to the UK, but the small independent music retailer over here is past the point of saving. The few surviving stores sell cheap recorders and sheet music to schoolkids. No other type of musical instrument store has any reason to pay the high rent of a retail area - they don't have the space or the capital to carry enough stock to tempt anyone to make the trip. A few big out-of-town chains will probably survive if they have a solid web business as well.

it's a shame - I would always rather try before I buy, but that's the harsh economic reality.

if Gibson want to capitalise on their heritage, (IMHO) they have to shoot for top quality instruments in lower quantities, expand into amps and other products for guitarists (not other musicians), withdraw from retailers, and sell direct - online and via their own out-of-town retail outlets. Their revenues will drop massively, but they would have a chance of keeping their profits high enough to stay afloat.
Old 1 week ago
  #17
In other words, turn into Carvin?
Old 1 week ago
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by grannis View Post
Maybe it's different in the US compared to the UK, but the small independent music retailer over here is past the point of saving. The few surviving stores sell cheap recorders and sheet music to schoolkids. No other type of musical instrument store has any reason to pay the high rent of a retail area - they don't have the space or the capital to carry enough stock to tempt anyone to make the trip. A few big out-of-town chains will probably survive if they have a solid web business as well.

it's a shame - I would always rather try before I buy, but that's the harsh economic reality.

if Gibson want to capitalise on their heritage, (IMHO) they have to shoot for top quality instruments in lower quantities, expand into amps and other products for guitarists (not other musicians), withdraw from retailers, and sell direct - online and via their own out-of-town retail outlets. Their revenues will drop massively, but they would have a chance of keeping their profits high enough to stay afloat.
Few instruments of higher quality, yes. Withdraw from local markets, no. Relying on large corporate mail order dealers puts you at their mercy on wholesale pricing and denies customers the opportunity to try instruments in person. The thing is to build a large network of small dealers, not to sell your soul to a small network of large dealers who then have you over a barrel. That's the same mistake they made last time.

Screw the "harsh economic reality" - that's only "reality" if you allow it to be.

The basic problem is how to counteract the effects of catastrophic over-expansion - it's really hard to shrink back down once you've become terminally bloated.

I remember when I was a kid I'd spend my afternoons hanging out at the little hole in the wall guitar store that had a dozen or so Gibsons and Epiphones (made in Kalamazoo) hanging on the wall along with a few Mosrites and whatever used and consignment instruments that happened to walk in. There were a couple of Gibson amps but nobody paid much attention to those - the amps that drew all the interest were Sunn, Standel,and Kustom. There was no Fender except used - the Fender franchise was the C&W store on the other side of town.

Gibson needs to create a financing arrangement for dealers so that small dealers can afford to keep quality product in stock without having to pay for it all up front.

Expanding into amps, not so much. Gibson has never been particularly successful with their amplifiers, at least not since the mid '50s. Best for them to stick to what they do best. No more of this branching out.

Last edited by John Eppstein; 1 week ago at 06:24 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #19
Lives for gear
 
noah330's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProgFree View Post
Not only Gibson stopped showing up at such events but Fender is also starting not to do it, and many other classic brands will follow. Was told by a person that works at one of these brands that for them it starts to make no sense to pay huge fees to have booths showing quality and craftsmanship side by side with booths packed with crappy Chinese copies of their products.
Well, the FMIC booth is jammed with crappy Chinese copies of their products.
Old 1 week ago
  #20
Lives for gear
Big Venture fan here always wanted a Mosrite..... Ahhh the local Melody Mart, what a treat it was with the guitars, Farfisas, and Ampegs with the tubes on top.......
Old 1 week ago
  #21
Lives for gear
 
noah330's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
Big Venture fan here always wanted a Mosrite..... Ahhh the local Melody Mart, what a treat it was with the guitars, Farfisas, and Ampegs with the tubes on top.......
I have a Mosrite, killer guitars!
Old 1 week ago
  #22
Will they stop making those sunburst figured maple Les Paul monitors? Those sum up the excesses of that company.
Old 1 week ago
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah330 View Post
I have a Mosrite, killer guitars!
But you have everything!
Old 1 week ago
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Will they stop making those sunburst figured maple Les Paul monitors? Those sum up the excesses of that company.
I think the problem is what to do with the ones they already made - has anybody ever bought a pair?
Old 1 week ago
  #25
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah330 View Post
I have a Mosrite, killer guitars!
Always wanted one! Are any of the copies or reissues any good? the Ed Roman site looks completely Eurotrashed out!
Old 6 days ago
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
grannis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Relying on large corporate mail order dealers puts you at their mercy on wholesale pricing and denies customers the opportunity to try instruments in person.


Gibson needs to create a financing arrangement for dealers so that small dealers can afford to keep quality product in stock without having to pay for it all up front.

Expanding into amps, not so much.
You’re right but I’m not suggesting this - I’m suggesting the Ikea model - manufacture, and ONLY retail direct. There just aren’t enough small stores left in the UK. The US can’t be far behind...

Distribution is really cheap these days (in the uk at least)
if they open a few of their own stores, they could make them cool places to be - but they would need to sell a few other things than guitars- even if they don’t actually make them (white label)

It would be a bold move, but Gibson have still got enough kudos to pull this off.
The alternatives just slow down their inevitable demise
Old 6 days ago
  #27
Lives for gear
 
noah330's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
Always wanted one! Are any of the copies or reissues any good? the Ed Roman site looks completely Eurotrashed out!
I have an old one. Ed Roman made killer guitars. If his shop is the old team I would say they’re worth checking out.
Old 6 days ago
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by grannis View Post
You’re right but I’m not suggesting this - I’m suggesting the Ikea model - manufacture, and ONLY retail direct. There just aren’t enough small stores left in the UK. The US can’t be far behind...

Distribution is really cheap these days (in the uk at least)
if they open a few of their own stores, they could make them cool places to be - but they would need to sell a few other things than guitars- even if they don’t actually make them (white label)

It would be a bold move, but Gibson have still got enough kudos to pull this off.
The alternatives just slow down their inevitable demise
It would be a very bad move for musicians is several ways. First, it would put an end to bargaining over price, doing trade-ins, etc. Second, it would initiate a monster hit to the quality of the instruments, turning the company into a giant mass marketing operation. Have you looked at the "quality" of Ikea furniture? I have an Ikea desk (didn't buy it myself - I wouldn't). It's flimsy and wobbly as hell. It lacks storage space and the keyboard tray keeps popping off its track.

And yeah, they'd need to sell a lot of other mass-market junk besides mass-market guitars. Sounds a lot like Henry, doesn't it?

Congratulations, you've just invented a new scenario for the death of Gibson.
Old 6 days ago
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
Always wanted one! Are any of the copies or reissues any good? the Ed Roman site looks completely Eurotrashed out!
Most of the copies aren't much like Mosrites. Necks aren't the same. pickups aren't the same, and they don't have the patented compensated whammy bar.

I don't know about Ed Roman's.

EDIT: It appears that Ed Roman has obtained rights to the original Mosrite designs, which is great news. NONE of the other companies making Mosrite ripoffs have this.
Old 2 days ago
  #30
Gear Nut
 

I was under the impression the guitar division was actually doing pretty well, and it was the larger company that was struggling with the maturation of debt from all the asset collection they'd been doing since the early 90s.

I don't envy anyone the job of having to figure out how to constantly re-imagine a set of classic designs that some other cat basically nailed 60 years ago, so here's hoping a fresh change of leadership can make that guy's job a little easier.

Unless it's the same guy that came up with the sharpie doodle logo redesign from 2015. That guy should be chased out of town.
Mentioned Products
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump