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Better Guitar Tones For Bedroom Recording
Old 1 week ago
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
In a bedroom? Right...
Besides, I don't think that's a very special guitar sound.

So, can I hear some of those famous real bedroom tones?
It's less than 5 watts. The Deluxe might get a bit loud but might be passable at home, the others are definitely bedroom volume. You've already heard their famous bedroom tones on countless classic recordings, most recorded with no frills. They have a full, thick clean tone and warm authentic tube overdrive. A great base to make them sound however you want them to.

Well worth the cost, especially considering its a good investment. Like investing in the market, except this will always go up and you can record great music with it. Win-win.
Old 1 week ago
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
It's less than 5 watts. The Deluxe might get a bit loud but might be passable at home, the others are definitely bedroom volume. You've already heard their famous bedroom tones on countless classic recordings, most recorded with no frills. They have a full, thick clean tone and warm authentic tube overdrive. A great base to make them sound however you want them to.
So, again: Can I hear some of these tones that you (!) recorded at bedroom levels?
Old 1 week ago
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
So, again: Can I hear some of these tones that you (!) recorded at bedroom levels?
No, I am not posting my music here, as if that is necessary to prove that small tweed amps sound good LOL. Probably the most recorded amps in history.

No need to prove what their volume is either. The performance of these amps is well known.
Old 1 week ago
  #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
No, I am not posting my music here, as if that is necessary to prove that small tweed amps sound good LOL. Probably the most recorded amps in history.
You don't have to post your music here. Just a few guitar sounds.

Whatever, you won't. Fine. However, by now it's perfectly safe to assume you're making all this up. Which is also proven by your postings, such as several famous recordings being recorded in bedrooms - which is just utter nonsense.

Really, this is pathetic.
Old 1 week ago
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
You don't have to post your music here. Just a few guitar sounds.

Whatever, you won't. Fine. However, by now it's perfectly safe to assume you're making all this up. Which is also proven by your postings, such as several famous recordings being recorded in bedrooms - which is just utter nonsense.

Really, this is pathetic.
Making what up? That small vintage Fender tweeds sound great at bedroom volumes, or that countless famous recordings were made using them? That is a matter of music history.

And I didn't say they were recorded in bedrooms, but they were recorded at bedroom volumes. Although some were probably recorded in actual bedrooms. Or hotel rooms. Or bars. Or basements.
Old 1 week ago
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
Making what up? That small vintage Fender tweeds sound great at bedroom volumes, or that countless famous recordings were made using them? That is a matter of music history.

And I didn't say they were recorded in bedrooms, but they were recorded at bedroom volumes. Although some were probably recorded in actual bedrooms. Or hotel rooms. Or bars. Or basements.
Where's your proof for any of these bold statements? Where can I read up that "Layla" was recorded at bedroom levels? Which are the other famous guitar sounds that were recorded at bedroom levels? Where can I read up on all that magical stuff?
And where's your sound samples to prove that *you* actually know what you're talking about? Put your money where your mouth is! Otherwise stop making bold suggestions about what is suitable or not, ffs.
Old 1 week ago
  #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Where's your proof for any of these bold statements? Where can I read up that "Layla" was recorded at bedroom levels? Which are the other famous guitar sounds that were recorded at bedroom levels? Where can I read up on all that magical stuff?
And where's your sound samples to prove that *you* actually know what you're talking about? Put your money where your mouth is! Otherwise stop making bold suggestions about what is suitable or not, ffs.
Because those amps don't go beyond bedroom levels. The Champ can be a bit biting if you dime it, but still acceptable, depending on the wife. Pairing with an inefficient speaker tones it down. The Princeton is quieter. They sound great not dimed though, and with distortion pedals you can get Marshall stack like tones at bedroom volumes.

I don't think its right for you though. For you I'd suggest saving that money and investing it in a good therapist and medication.
Old 1 week ago
  #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
For you I'd suggest saving that money and investing it in a good therapist and medication.
For you I'd suggest to finally put your money where your mouth is. So far, all we have read (!) is the same kind of stuff you can find literally at any place where people are just talking about equipment without ever actually playing something. You seem to completely fall into that category.

You didn't even manage to point me to just one *single* source of a famous guitar sound that was recorded at bedroom levels. Embarrassing.
Old 1 week ago
  #249
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Seriously, folks - out of the guys oh-so vehemently raving about how great it would be to use real amps and cabs for bedroom level recordings, not *one* of them has supplied any link to any nice guitar sounds that were actually recorded that way, let alone stuff they have done on their own.
So why would anyone believe any of that blurb?

Instead, I'm advised to go to a therapist - what's the next low blow to follow? Does it even get any lower?
Old 1 week ago
  #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Seriously, folks - out of the guys oh-so vehemently raving about how great it would be to use real amps and cabs for bedroom level recordings, not *one* of them has supplied any link to any nice guitar sounds that were actually recorded that way, let alone stuff they have done on their own.
So why would anyone believe any of that blurb?

Instead, I'm advised to go to a therapist - what's the next low blow to follow? Does it even get any lower?
I've never heard a 5 watt amp I could record with at bedroom level. My vox ac 4 will keep up with a drummer so a 5 watt amp at bedroom level is just silly. Don't get me wrong I use real amps while the band is recording and I use software emulations for writing or recording my own stuff. They both have there place. I sit next to my wife while she's watching Hallmark and i can track parts emulations let me do that....a tweed she would strangle me!!!
Old 1 week ago
  #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lumpcalhoon View Post
I've never heard a 5 watt amp I could record with at bedroom level. My vox ac 4 will keep up with a drummer so a 5 watt amp at bedroom level is just silly.
Exactly my experience.
And if you really wanted to tame the volume significantly (which obviously includes all sorts of lower end "oomph"), you would have to go quite a mile, too, at least in case you wanted to crank the amp. The "put a mattress over it" thing (which was recommended in this very thread as well) is just purely cosmetic. It might help the mic to capture less environment bleed but it certainly won't help with the neighbours.

Besides, as much as one might like real amps, cabs and mics (which I personally did for a long time but just don't anymore), to get just a little close to the ballpark in terms of the flexibility a decent modeler is offering, you'd have to shell out *big* bucks.

And well, I'd still like to listen to some real amp/cab recordings done at bedroom levels that I couldn't match with the things I'm using. So far, nobody has posted any.
Old 1 week ago
  #252
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Ever since the low volume guitar thing has come up I have been thinking about a 1980’s ish Guitar Player article mentioning Neal Schon playing very low volume guitar on the recording of Journey’s “Walks Like A Lady”... I looked around quite a bit, and although This is not it, it references the article...

Quote:
Departure album: ’63 Strat on neck position for “Walks Like a Lady” through a Peavey Mace which was on very low;
I don’t think it was recorded in a bedroom, though. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



Beautiful.

I personally feel that if the tone fits, use it. I have enjoyed software sims, hardware sims, stomp boxes, solid state amps, tube amps... each has their own flavor. They can be used in combination or alone... For me, everything is in the table. Acoustic guitar through a sim? Sure - why not if it fits. I can get inspired by an acoustically played electric guitar. I just love playing.

YMMV
Old 1 week ago
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lumpcalhoon View Post
I've never heard a 5 watt amp I could record with at bedroom level. My vox ac 4 will keep up with a drummer so a 5 watt amp at bedroom level is just silly.
Sure, if you dime it. Tweeds sound amazing with just a touch of hair from natural overdrive.

Really any good small tube amp can get great bedroom level tones if not cranked and used with pedals. I had a Bugera v22, a Laney Lionheart, small modern Fenders, Hughes & Kettner 18, all were capable of great tones at bedroom levels. If your wife is watching Hallmark next to you, the only acceptable level is 0.
Old 1 week ago
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
I had a Bugera v22, a Laney Lionheart, small modern Fenders, Hughes & Kettner 18, all were capable of great tones at bedroom levels.
So, where's the examples that a modeler couldn't match? Post them and we'll see.
Old 1 week ago
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
people are just talking about equipment without ever actually playing something.
I've played more guitar amps than you will in your next 5 lifetimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
So, where's the examples that a modeler couldn't match? Post them and we'll see.
Where did I say a modeler couldn't match them? I have almost no experience with modelers, so I couldn't say.

I wouldn't bet a nickel on it though.
Old 1 week ago
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weave View Post


Beautiful.
Might be beuatiful but certainly not tough to match with a modeler at all (more like a piece of cake), given you have the right guitar (which I unfortunately don't, otherwise I'd give it a shot).
Old 1 week ago
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
I've played more guitar amps than you will in your next 5 lifetimes.
More of the same utterly meaningless blurb.
And even if it was true, so far we don't even know you'd manage to properly play a C major chord in open position - which you likely don't. Otherwise I wouldn't happen to know why you wouldn't just post some of your killer bedroom tones.
Old 1 week ago
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
I wouldn't bet a nickel on it though.
Obviously not. I mean, you would have to have something to place your bet on. Which you don't.
Old 1 week ago
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Obviously not. I mean, you would have to have something to place your bet on. Which you don't.
I like to play some vintage tubes with my electric guitar, usually a '67/'68 Marshall or '59 Bassman into 4x12 cabinets with late 60s Greenbacks. If I push it with a tube pre-amp, even with low output pickups like a vintage Strat, I can just press my finger on a fret, and then begins the wild feedback with growing infinite sustain. If I then bend the string, it creates sounds which rattle the walls and equipment. You can imagine what it does when I actually strike the strings and play it. So animate and three dimensional. So percussive. So warm you can roast chestnuts on it. So round and balanced, naturally compressing in all the right places. So many wild feedback effects controlled by the position of the pickups to the speakers. So thick and clean when you roll back the volume knob on the guitar.

I played a Kemper once, set to '59 Bassman + Klon, and I got none of that. Sounded like bird crap brittle. Not even in the same universe to wanna tweak it.

I guess if I was like, properly playing a C major chord in open position instead of ritually decapitating the audience with a claymore, the Kemper would be passable.
Old 1 week ago
  #260
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I had a swart atomic jr (5 watt 1x8) in an apartment in Taipei. If I turned it up to "edge of break up" it was way too loud for an apartment for lengthy playing. As would a champ or any other 5 watt amp w/out an attenuator/load box.

I had to use an attenuator if I wanted anything other than clean. I'm not really a guitarist, but I was trying to be the songwriter in a band as a drummer. Here are two demos I recorded in my apartment bedroom in Taipei. Played/recorded all instruments. Drums played really quietly in the afternoon with hot rods, swart w/ attenuator mic'd, bass into API A2D


Old 1 week ago
  #261
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Again, I'm not a guitarist. I hope this clip helps people find reasonable bedroom tones for recording.

This demo probably has the "most bedroom friendly" guitar track I've recorded in an apartment. The guitar is actually two reamped tracks . A micro terror headphone out into my apollo and a vintage 47 prototype head into a swart night light and the line out of the night light into my apollo IIRC. I don't think I used any amp sim processing and I don't think I used pedals for the guitar tone. I think I have UAD emt 140 on the two guitar tracks. I believe they are the same DI track reamped twice and then eq'd and compressed differently to make it sound like one guitar. The link is from my google drive so I'd have to look at the Logic project to know for sure, but I'm pretty sure that's how I got this sound.

Old 1 week ago
  #262
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I guess my estimation of "bedroom level" is higher than usual, but you don't have to crank an amp for it to sound good. There are boosts, overdrives and distortion pedals which excel at bedroom volume. You can record a small amp sounding pretty damn close to a wall of Marshalls at reasonable volume, and its done all the time. When you play and mic a real tube amp you are getting a tone and ambiance which adds texture, dimension, dynamics, harmonics.

Still recommend a small vintage amp for home recording. In addition to all that vintagy thickness and warmth, it has an animate, 3D quality I haven't heard in other amps. And this carries over when you use pedals. They are expensive, but its better imo than dickin around with gear that depreciates in value, trying to simulate the real thing but falling short.

I also highly recommend some of those converted vintage PA amps, like the old Bogen, RCA, etc PA amps from the 50s and 60s (I even have a few from the 30s and 40s). They all sound different, some better than others, gotta hear before you buy, but the good ones sound mind blowingly good, almost as good as a vintage tweed or Marshall (no joke). And they sell for around $350.
Old 1 week ago
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weave View Post
Ever since the low volume guitar thing has come up I have been thinking about a 1980’s ish Guitar Player article mentioning Neal Schon playing very low volume guitar on the recording of Journey’s “Walks Like A Lady”... I looked around quite a bit, and although This is not it, it references the article...



I don’t think it was recorded in a bedroom, though. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯





Beautiful.

I personally feel that if the tone fits, use it. I have enjoyed software sims, hardware sims, stomp boxes, solid state amps, tube amps... each has their own flavor. They can be used in combination or alone... For me, everything is in the table. Acoustic guitar through a sim? Sure - why not if it fits. I can get inspired by an acoustically played electric guitar. I just love playing.

YMMV
Important to remember - Neal was probably going deaf back then so what he considers "low" might have been just low "gain" but still louder than bedroom levels...
Old 1 week ago
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedorama View Post
Important to remember - Neal was probably going deaf back then so what he considers "low" might have been just low "gain" but still louder than bedroom levels...
That’s why I tried so hard to find the original article - I distinctly remember the phrase “just above a whisper”.

Maybe it’s my 50+ year old mind trying to recall something I read 35 years ago. Although I did read the Guitar Player magazines cover to cover, over and over.

Oh well. If it was whisper quiet, I am sure it was in a well treated studio setting. Not really bedroom recording. Just thought it worthy of a mention.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Old 1 week ago
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han View Post
I had a swart atomic jr (5 watt 1x8) in an apartment in Taipei. If I turned it up to "edge of break up" it was way too loud for an apartment for lengthy playing. As would a champ or any other 5 watt amp w/out an attenuator/load box.

I had to use an attenuator if I wanted anything other than clean. I'm not really a guitarist, but I was trying to be the songwriter in a band as a drummer. Here are two demos I recorded in my apartment bedroom in Taipei. Played/recorded all instruments. Drums played really quietly in the afternoon with hot rods, swart w/ attenuator mic'd, bass into API A2D
Nice! At least as played through the speaker on my cell!
Old 1 week ago
  #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
I like to play some vintage tubes with my electric guitar, usually a '67/'68 Marshall or '59 Bassman into 4x12 cabinets with late 60s Greenbacks. If I push it with a tube pre-amp, even with low output pickups like a vintage Strat, I can just press my finger on a fret, and then begins the wild feedback with growing infinite sustain.
Did you even bother to read the title of this thread? Apparently you didn't.

And fwiw, whenever I push the level on my FRFR monitor, this works every bit the same.

But, can we now please have a link to any of those gorgeous bedroom level recordings you are fantasizing about? No, don't have to be your own recordings, because apparently you're too shy to post them. Be it so. But then, post some links of where to listen to killer bedroom recordings done with real amps and cabs. According to your statements, there must be tons.

Quote:
Still recommend a small vintage amp for home recording. In addition to all that vintagy thickness and warmth, it has an animate, 3D quality I haven't heard in other amps. And this carries over when you use pedals.
More of the same-ish blurb, no sounds.
Old 1 week ago
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han View Post
I had a swart atomic jr (5 watt 1x8) in an apartment in Taipei. If I turned it up to "edge of break up" it was way too loud for an apartment for lengthy playing. As would a champ or any other 5 watt amp w/out an attenuator/load box.

I had to use an attenuator if I wanted anything other than clean. I'm not really a guitarist, but I was trying to be the songwriter in a band as a drummer. Here are two demos I recorded in my apartment bedroom in Taipei. Played/recorded all instruments. Drums played really quietly in the afternoon with hot rods, swart w/ attenuator mic'd, bass into API A2D
Decent sounds, but in all honesty, I think my modelers are every bit up to that sound quality.
Old 1 week ago
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Decent sounds, but in all honesty, I think my modelers are every bit up to that sound quality.
For sure! I just wanted to throw some kind of example out there that I’ve recommended. As I said a few pages back, I don’t have an amp atm. Well, no cab I should say but that’s for a different post in the future.
Old 1 week ago
  #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han View Post
For sure! I just wanted to throw some kind of example out there that I’ve recommended. As I said a few pages back, I don’t have an amp atm. Well, no cab I should say but that’s for a different post in the future.
Seriously, these days it's pretty cheap to get very, very decent guitar sounds into your songs without any of the traditional hassle.
Sure, in case you believe some of the analog hardliners in this thread, that's not true, so it's up to you what you prefer to believe.
Old 1 week ago
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
We've been there before, predictable sounds have nothing to do with being able to improvise or not.
Well...almost. Obviously a skilled drummer can improvise even beating on a hollow log (reasonably predictable, I'd say) but just as "working distance" of a microphone can be utilized to great effect by a skilled vocalist, one cannot say serendipity or quirky response has nothing to do with improv. It is or can be a component but that isn't to say it can also be as detrimental as a quirky echo response of a nasty room. Being able to accept "the roller coaster" of serendipity is part of the mindset of improv. The point is, as I said, too much predictability can be detrimental to that mindset, just as over rehearsing can result in a stale performance. I don't view this as utterly bi-polar, but rather a fluid mixture of components. We each select which components enter the mix of possibilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
And can we hear some of your bedroom sounds now?
Nothing at all recent since I haven't lived in an apartment in many years so have not had to rely on any manner of volume reduction for all that time. When I did, the closet booth was more than merely adequate and cheap. This is not a battle. I already stated I like what you played and managed to record with your low or no volume digital rig. I just reserve the right to note that "better" is just a subjective term for "different". Each must place his own value judgment on different as better or worse, and even that can change under different circumstances.

Your way works. So did mine. What's the conflict?. IOW why continue on this unless you simply perceive this is some sort of pissing contest you need to win? I don't. It's just a suggestion based on experience for a viable and cheaper option. Do with it what you will.
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