The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Better Guitar Tones For Bedroom Recording
Old 6 days ago
  #91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
I've seen it but never had the chance to try. I don't think they are available in this country.
$1500 is an investment, irrespective of the size of the studio. I buy them if I think they are useful. Plus I have a '61 and a '67 B15s so I can get the sound if required. Also without the P-Amp the sound will be totally different. Just as with SVP pre-amp family - its nothing like my SVT. Or my Aguilar dB680, with its very fancy EQ will never be a replacement for my dB359.
But Tonecraft may be a VERY nice DI/Pre. The question is -d does it do anything I cannot get with what I already have? Does it bring anything new to the table?
The original B-15Ns had the option of running only the preamp section as a preamp/DI. The Tonecraft will do that. So will your B-15s if you run them without a speaker connected to th 4 pin output, which place the power section into standby when no speaker is connected. This only works for the original versions with the 4-pin XLR speaker connection.
Old 6 days ago
  #92
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
The original B-15Ns had the option of running only the preamp section as a preamp/DI. The Tonecraft will do that.
I'll check if mine have that option. If so, what is the use of the Tonecraft for me?
Old 6 days ago
  #93
Gear Addict
 

My own personal favourite bass DI sound... was the DI input on a Sonic Farm Creamer+ I had on loan. I believe that their 2DI4 is the same circuit (but I haven't tried it). I've currently moved to using an Ampeg PF-20T with an Origin Effects Cali76 in the front. It's ok but I sometimes wonder if I was happier using the iron of the A Designs Pacifica with tube-y goodness of a Nail compressor after. If I was going to go full portable, I'd take an Effectrode Blackbird and the Cali76 (or Union LAB) and use that into an interface.
Old 6 days ago
  #94
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundSlinger View Post
My own personal favourite bass DI sound... was the DI input on a Sonic Farm Creamer+ I had on loan. I believe that their 2DI4 is the same circuit (but I haven't tried it). I've currently moved to using an Ampeg PF-20T with an Origin Effects Cali76 in the front. It's ok but I sometimes wonder if I was happier using the iron of the A Designs Pacifica with tube-y goodness of a Nail compressor after. If I was going to go full portable, I'd take an Effectrode Blackbird and the Cali76 (or Union LAB) and use that into an interface.
I have 2xBlackbird's. I use them to get a "modern" guitar sound occasionally. Bass - never did it for me on bass. I have a Cali76 (the old, big format one) - not great on bass.Much better bass comps out there.
Old 6 days ago
  #95
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
I have 2xBlackbird's. I use them to get a "modern" guitar sound occasionally. Bass - never did it for me on bass. I have a Cali76 (the old, big format one) - not great on bass.Much better bass comps out there.
I have the Cali76 Bass, it works for me. I might like the Union LAB better. But I love my Blackbird (which is mostly on guitar duty but I have used it for bass). But, honestly, I prefer the playing bass through rack gear...
Old 5 days ago
  #96
Gear Addict
 
konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Our History View Post
This is for those who cannot blast away with a mic'ed cabinet and want to improve their guitar tones. Please try to hit on a few price points say 500, 1000 before going to Kempers etc.

I want to step up my game with recorded guitar tones. I live in an apartment and can't wont bug my neighbors. I'd really like to put out a 2nd album with more pleasing, complex, interesting sounds.

I don't need a lot of extra bells and whistles - I already have those. Just a good amp/cab tone to build on.

I see 3 approaches:

1.) Amp/cab simulation with a plugin.

2.) External amp emulator.

3.) Real Amp >Cabinet Emulation
3a) line out into something like a Torpedo CAB
3b) speaker out to something that can "step down" the signal

....

1.) Amp/Cab sim plugin - I've used these and they're ok. Currently I use Ampire because it comes with the highest tier Studio One. My results were a little harsh sounding. I sometimes go layered, think Queen or Explosions in the Sky guitars and I wonder if the stacking of guitar tracks emphasized the suposed harsh quality of amp sims?

Do I simply need to work more diligently at mastering this tool which I already have, which is potentially as good as the other options?

2.) Dedicated outboard amp modeler -- is there ANY merit to this for someone with a good DAW with a decent amp plugin? (And if so at what price?) If I get a $1000 Headrush, looks like I get a lot of bells and whistles I don't need.

I've got, for instance, an ol DG Stomp. I've come across some assertions that the new THR is just a DG modeler stuck on a speaker. Idunno. Has amp modeling improved in quality or has it just become cheaper, more varied, and more shrinkable? I mean, I keep seeing products the size of a stomp pedal promising 20 customizable amp types. Are they BETTER? Or are the manufacturers getting better at giving us more models of the same quality? I honestly don't know.

3.) Amp head > cab emulator. --- I don't need a gosh darn $1000 head for playing Madison Square Garden. I just need to record.

I could imagine getting a BluBox or Torpedo CAB, and then what, some Hotones, joyo Bantamps, orange microterror, bugera t5, vox mv50, maybe one of those biyang wang micro amps. A guy could end up with a versitile stable of amp sounds. With a seperate cab emulator, you could replace it as technology improves. As for the amp side... an amp is an amp.

I got really excited when I found the Freyette Valvulator GP/DI - I was thinking yes, this is the analog product bedroom studios need. Then I saw it was from 2015, maybe 2013 and started to worry about cab simulation... how far have we come in 5 years? Maybe it is better to have a seperate cab component.

is a mini amp to cab simulator setup likely to be any better than a decent plugin?

Is there any difference between running out of the speaker out into something that steps it down vs running from line out/headphone into more of a preamp type cab modeler?

are there sub $300 or even sub $200 amps that would be good for running through, say, a BluBox for recording to give a BETTER quality recording than an amp sim in the box? Or does it require a good $1800 minimum outlay between a full amp head and torpedo type product?


In closing, I hope people can range around on this subject a bit - different price points, musical styles.

I will say for me, trying to shop around using demos on youtube, you get a lot of metal guys - fine if you are a metal guy and more power to you - or a lot of doodledoo I'm so bluesy demos. Or "rock" that is just british blues invasion.

I was especially taken with the idea of the Yamaha THR because it seems to be as much a direct recording interface as it is anything else, but every review I come across only evaluates it as a "bedroom practice amp" or they ignore the USB and mic it up for recording. And I wonder if I plug in my Yamaha DG to a speaker do I already essentially have a THR?

personally I am trying to be sort of er... fugazi crossed with explosions in the sky trying to be queen... (if you want shorthand for that think Jimmy Eat World's 2nd and 3rd albums) so I have little use for metal and blues demos.

I want clean twinkle-y tones and fairly rough but not metal distorted tones. I'm wondering what will help me specifically but I think this is a topic that ought to be covered more anyway. Do we need real amps to get the job done WELL? can mini amps or normal amp heads with a cab emulatordo the trick? Do people just not work hard enough at dialing in plugins?
Is there no chance you can get away with blasting a really small amp? And being careful what time of day you do it?
Old 5 days ago
  #97
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by konkon View Post
Is there no chance you can get away with blasting a really small amp? And being careful what time of day you do it?
You can, with a right speaker and watching your gain structure
Old 5 days ago
  #98
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
You can, with a right speaker and watching your gain structure
Not if one lives in an apartment in a megalopolis. Someone will always get pissed. Kids sleeping, old people napping, kids preparing for exams, countless other bull****. Cops will be called, doors will be knocked upon and the community will blame you. Been there done that.

Best approach is amp head into a load into a cab sim. Second best, pedals into a cab sim.

I have the the cab m and it’s ok. It can achieve realistic sounds, but navigating the pedal can be awkward. The iPad app is great for it because it makes navigating the pedal much easier. It also sounds good on bass as it has some bass cab models.

Two notes torpedo studio and torpedo live can be found second hand for really good prices. I’d also love to try the fryette gp/di valvulator, but haven’t found the right price on the right one. I think the new iridium by strymon has potential but it’s got a high price point for its options, doesn’t have a bass cab setting and has too few demos since it’s new.

Good luck

Last edited by Ox Han; 4 days ago at 03:47 PM.. Reason: Not so clear
Old 4 days ago
  #99
Gear Addict
 

It’s $$$, but I use a Rivera Rock Crusher and Silent Sister for nearly silent recording of a dimed AC15 head. Sounds great, no matter what the anti-attenuator folks say.
Old 3 days ago
  #100
Gear Addict
 
konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
You can, with a right speaker and watching your gain structure
Hahah I know that. I wasn't asking in general. I was asking the original poster if in their situation they could get away with that? Since I don't know what their environment is like exactly. I was asking if they might be able to get away with it based on their surroundings, neighbors, etc.

For example, at some times of day I can use a small amp where I live, even though it's apartments and there are people living on every side of me. It depends on the person's situation, so I was asking if they could get away with this.
Old 3 days ago
  #101
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by konkon View Post
Hahah I know that. I wasn't asking in general. I was asking the original poster if in their situation they could get away with that? Since I don't know what their environment is like exactly. I was asking if they might be able to get away with it based on their surroundings, neighbors, etc.

For example, at some times of day I can use a small amp where I live, even though it's apartments and there are people living on every side of me. It depends on the person's situation, so I was asking if they could get away with this.
One can use a small speaker at low level and it does not offend anyone. Pile up a couple of mattresses - sound ugly but helps with neighbours
Or hire a small studio for a short period of time.
Depends on how important your sound is for you and how much investment you are prepared to make into your product
Old 3 days ago
  #102
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
One can use a small speaker at low level and it does not offend anyone. Pile up a couple of mattresses - sound ugly but helps with neighbours
Or hire a small studio for a short period of time.
Or buy a modeler.
Old 3 days ago
  #103
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Or buy a modeler.
There is a limit I am happy to compromise to. Modellers are too much in the red
Old 3 days ago
  #104
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
There is a limit I am happy to compromise to. Modellers are too much in the red
I'll post some sounds when I find the time later on. You could then still try to tell me how you would do that within your small-speaker-mattress-neighbour-friendly mayhem.
Old 3 days ago
  #105
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
I'll post some sounds when I find the time later on. You could then still try to tell me how you would do that within your small-speaker-mattress-neighbour-friendly mayhem.
You may force to resort to my .5W amps . Through a 12" alnico open back speaker
Old 3 days ago
  #106
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
You may force to resort to my .5W amps . Through a 12" alnico open back speaker
Whatever. I had such a setup. It was a nightmare to deal with in an appartment. Back then there were no decent modelers or load boxes and cab sims, so I got away with it. But I wouldn't even touch such a setup with a 10feet pole anymore, at least not when being able to use what I have today.
Old 3 days ago
  #107
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Whatever. I had such a setup. It was a nightmare to deal with in an appartment. Back then there were no decent modelers or load boxes and cab sims, so I got away with it. But I wouldn't even touch such a setup with a 10feet pole anymore, at least not when being able to use what I have today.
There were modellers for the last 30 years, each claiming to be a total replacement for the heavy, unwieldy, running hot , fragile tube amps. Most went the way of the dodo and are now available for <$50. We tried all of them under every condition.
Unless you live a a hose with paper .01mm walls you can decently control noise by stepping down output and using speakers of suitably low power. A head with a load box into a speaker cab of say 15W will give you a very controlled and usable setup. Using a modular pre setup like i have at home into a small power amp and a small speaker in a controlled environment (say a wooden box - we used small speakers inside a small cupboard) will give you a much better and versatile setup, then any emulator made today with 10g+1 presets which all sound like a tiny variation of the same thing. In many sessions we run in the studio , guide tracks made by running a guitar into a tube pre, then into a di, with no speakers yielded preferred results to the AXEFX/Kemper/Line6 units the clients mocked up and brought with them. These are the facts . Anything else about not being able to record somewhere where anything above whisper is an issue with the neighbours is rubbish. You run your TV at higher level and i presume there are no complaints
Old 3 days ago
  #108
Lives for gear
 

Man, we do by now know which paradigm you're following - doesn't make much sense to claim analog superiority over and over again.
Old 2 days ago
  #109
Gear Addict
 
konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
There is a limit I am happy to compromise to. Modellers are too much in the red
Same here. I understand that people can find them useful, they're just not my style or sound.
Old 2 days ago
  #110
Gear Addict
 
konkon's Avatar
Hey, the best solution is... Do whatever you want and if people come knocking, just say "hey, you're lucky I am not charging you for tickets"...
Old 2 days ago
  #111
Lives for gear
 

But “blasting” a small amp ain’t gonna work if your recording is constantly interrupted by complaints.

I do think good attenuators are the best option to get amps to tv volume. It Sounds like a cranked amp because it is!

If that’s not enough volume reduction, amps into load boxes, or preamps/pedals, going into cab sims are good both of those options will still get good results.
Old 2 days ago
  #112
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by konkon View Post
Same here. I understand that people can find them useful, they're just not my style or sound.
So, out of interest: What is *your* sound?
Old 2 days ago
  #113
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han View Post
But “blasting” a small amp ain’t gonna work if your recording is constantly interrupted by complaints.

I do think good attenuators are the best option to get amps to tv volume. It Sounds like a cranked amp because it is!

If that’s not enough volume reduction, amps into load boxes, or preamps/pedals, going into cab sims are good both of those options will still get good results.
Yeap. Crank that amp if you need to. Use an attenuator to drop the level just enough to drive a small speaker to below TV level. Record that. Not expensive and easy to do. You can use anything from .5W ZVex to 100W Marshall/Engl/Mesa... It will sound different to blasting them through a 4x12 (not great for recording anyway) but still better then many current fundango digitalis boxes
Old 2 days ago
  #114
Gear Addict
 
konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
So, out of interest: What is *your* sound?
A sound which is comprised of me playing through gear I like. I also design the sound I use for certain jobs or projects. Doesn't even have to be specific gear. I mean, I am given different gear for most jobs anyway.

It's just that some stuff I like, some I don't and GENERALLY for the kinds of things I play those modelling boxes and things just don't sound good.

On the other hand, if it's just some lame gig where nobody is listening I realized it really makes zero difference and it's a waste of effort. I just use what I am given. Still prefer it's something I don't hate though and I always take one pedal so that I have some control over the sound regardless of what amp I am presented with.
Old 2 days ago
  #115
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by konkon View Post
A sound which is comprised of me playing through gear I like. I also design the sound I use for certain jobs or projects. Doesn't even have to be specific gear. I mean, I am given different gear for most jobs anyway.

It's just that some stuff I like, some I don't and GENERALLY for the kinds of things I play those modelling boxes and things just don't sound good.
All this is completely vague. What kinda jobs are those where you are "given" gear? I mean, outside of playing shows with rental equipment (in that case the sound design aspect possible would fall short...). Couldn't you just come up with one example?

Quote:
On the other hand, if it's just some lame gig where nobody is listening I realized it really makes zero difference and it's a waste of effort.
Oh, so you're not "designing the sound" for yourself? I always do. Because, regardless of the job, in the very first place, *I* want my stuff to sound great. Because I want to feel great while playing, regardless of the audience.

Seriously, all this doesn't sound realistic.
Old 2 days ago
  #116
Lives for gear
 
enorbet2's Avatar
Many younger cats will tend toward all the digital emulation stuff but good tone at bedroom vbolumes is certainly possible with almost any amp. I'm linking a video of Frank Marino demonstrating 2 pedals and please notice, for your edification, he is speaking the entire time in a conversational level of volume. I am assuming nobody gets complaints about conversations in your apartment or bedroom. The tone sounds pretty damned gigantic to me.

Old 2 days ago
  #117
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
Many younger cats will tend toward all the digital emulation stuff but good tone at bedroom vbolumes is certainly possible with almost any amp. I'm linking a video of Frank Marino demonstrating 2 pedals and please notice, for your edification, he is speaking the entire time in a conversational level of volume. I am assuming nobody gets complaints about conversations in your apartment or bedroom. The tone sounds pretty damned gigantic to me.

Pardon? Nowhere in this video does he mention that the amp would be in the same room. Given the environment visible I would say it's pretty safe to assume that his amp is sitting somewhere in an isolated booth, properly mic'ed up and all. The sound of his voice and the sound of the amp also clearly indicate that the amp is mic'ed up separately, so it can be mixed in at any volume to suit the video.
Apples and oranges, really.
Old 1 day ago
  #118
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
Many younger cats will tend toward all the digital emulation stuff but good tone at bedroom vbolumes is certainly possible with almost any amp. I'm linking a video of Frank Marino demonstrating 2 pedals and please notice, for your edification, he is speaking the entire time in a conversational level of volume. I am assuming nobody gets complaints about conversations in your apartment or bedroom. The tone sounds pretty damned gigantic to me.

This is a pedal demo with no mention of amp and location of amp (it's not in the room nor in the frame). There is no mention if there is an attenuator, or anything else in regards to volume. Additionally, he's obviously in a pro studio.

TLDR - I'm struggling to see how this video is relevant in anyway to this thread
Old 1 day ago
  #119
Gear Addict
 
konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
All this is completely vague. What kinda jobs are those where you are "given" gear? I mean, outside of playing shows with rental equipment (in that case the sound design aspect possible would fall short...). Couldn't you just come up with one example?



Oh, so you're not "designing the sound" for yourself? I always do. Because, regardless of the job, in the very first place, *I* want my stuff to sound great. Because I want to feel great while playing, regardless of the audience.

Seriously, all this doesn't sound realistic.
Sorry, I think you misunderstood everything I was saying, the same as with my previous post. Maybe I was too tired and didn't explain well? I don't know.

Anyway just forget everything I said. I will rephrase what I was trying to say. My point is...

1) If it's my gig, I control the sound and it doesn't include any modeling gear. I have a very specific sound for my own gigs.

2) If it's someone else's gig and I am hired, I do what they require of me. Usually that doesn't require the same as above. Either I do what they ask, or if they don't care, I just use whatever they provide me and honestly, in most scenarios, I just take a guitar and one pedal and I can get a good enough sound that I can control that way, regardless of what I am given in terms of amps, etc.

3) If it's the kind of gig where nobody is even listening, it's not worth the hassle of taking my own amp, considering one will be provided already if the music and requirements are just "whatever" and nobody cares and nobody is listening. Obviously I still make it sound good and still control the sound, but I deal with what gear I am provided. Again I just take a guitar and a pedal, unless there's a special requirement otherwise.

4) None of the above include any modeling gear because I don't like it. I appreciate that other people like it and that's great. I wish I did, but I just don't. I have yet to encounter any that actually sounds like a real amp and actually feels the same as a real amp to play through. If I encounter a modeling rig one day that does, I will be happy to use it for something if I really need to. I just haven't encountered that so far.

5) It seems you got the impression I am not that picky with my sound. I actually am, but the point is that HOW picky I am depends on the scenario and the gig / job. Also, I can get my sound out of a range of basic gear. I thought it was universally accepted by now that no amount of gear will change whether a person can play or not.

6) I am not sure how what I said sounds unrealistic. I have earned a living playing guitar for years this way and people seek out my sound where I live.

7) The point is, whatever I am given, I will make it sound like me one way or another. It's just I would RATHER play through something I like, which won't be modelling gear. I can still get "my sound" even with one pedal through any half decent amp and I would rather that than modelling. It's just my preference. Anyone else is welcome to love modelling. I just haven't found any that I liked so far.

I hope that's clearer now.

Thanks!

Last edited by konkon; 1 day ago at 05:49 PM.. Reason: Forgot something.
Old 1 day ago
  #120
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
I'm linking a video of Frank Marino demonstrating 2 pedals
Search for "Frank Marino Torpedo", his comments on the Two Notes unit seem relevant to this discussion.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump