The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Better Guitar Tones For Bedroom Recording
Old 4th December 2019
  #271
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Please don't get personal. Just saying what I heard.
I used reverb when appropriate whereas other parts were bone dry. Sorry that you didn't get that. I thought that as a studio owner you were able to tell a reverberated sound from a dry one. Apparently not so much.
Old 4th December 2019
  #272
Lives for gear
 
enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Err...
"Layla" wasn't recorded at bedroom levels. So why do you continue bringing this up?
I sincerely doubt you're actually so dense you don't get it that it really doesn't matter what the level was at the mic once the rig is isolated. It's child's play to reduce 85db to conversational level. Zero db isn't even all that hard given a walk-in closet. The whole point of isolation is that you can crank it up loud and, in the studio not bleed into everything else, and in an apartment, not bleed into your neighbors. It's not an insurmountable task... and it's not rocket surgery to get from A to B like you are pretending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
So, in case that is your example of a proper bedroom level tone - I can't help it, but you were losing it plenty of posts ago already.
Just like I said... you don't want to get to some truth. You just want to prove you're right and everyone who disagrees even very slightly is wrong. It's There Can Be Only One all the way with you. Your later comment about Champ and Mattress shows you haven't actually bothered to consider a single word of anyone you even perceive as in opposition to The One True Way. Just FTR and reference, nobody proposed Champ and Mattress except you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HAL9000
I'm sorry, Dave. This conversation can serve no purpose anymore.
Old 4th December 2019
  #273
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
I sincerely doubt you're actually so dense you don't get it that it really doesn't matter what the level was at the mic once the rig is isolated. It's child's play to reduce 85db to conversational level.
Ahem... the amount of nonsense spread in this thread is reaching new highs.

Quote:
Just like I said... you don't want to get to some truth.
Which is the very reason for you to not supply a *single* sample? Right, that worked well.

But just keep fantasizing, after all, it's amusing.
Old 4th December 2019
  #274
Lives for gear
 
enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han View Post
From the book I’m reading by Rod Gervais, you’ll need a lot more than $50 of sheet rock and foam to build, or reinforce, any room that will isolate sound.

It’s certainly an option, but not really the most practical nor most affordable. That’s also probably a separate topic that belongs in the acoustics and soundproofing forum on GS
Having done it, I disagree. Currently 5/8 thickness sheetrock is roughly 10 bux a 4 foot by 8 foot sheet at Home Depot. One could easily fill the bill but lets be extravagant and buy two, so $20USD. A 5 foot by 7 foot inch and a half thick sheet of sculpted foam is 30 bux at Home Depot. It's probably not the cheapest outlet but it's still right on the money, 50 bux total.

While that's enough material to do many entire closets I opted for minor treatment to the closet and building a box large enough to house a Super Reverb. The box was lined with foam and rested on foam, which was enough for Princeton weight amps but for anything larger I added bungee straps anchored in rubber to keep the weight from compressing the foam floor.

So for a Champ to Princeton size and weight 50 bux will do just fine in my experience. I quoted ~150bux before because I wasn't talking hypothetically but what I actually had to spend to accommodate larger amps.

Don't forget even 60db outside the booth can be a problem for a studio, but it shouldn't be for neighbors separated by yet another (hopefully) insulated wall. So the closet treatment doesn't have to pad it down to zero.. just to reasonable.
Old 4th December 2019
  #275
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
I used reverb when appropriate whereas other parts were bone dry. Sorry that you didn't get that. I thought that as a studio owner you were able to tell a reverberated sound from a dry one. Apparently not so much.
It is because I am a producer (>30 years, on top of being a studio owner, which I payed for from the proceeds of being a producer) that I am saying what I'm saying.
You have decent playing skills but in turn it exposes the issues with your sound. But if you feel it works for you - fine.
Old 4th December 2019
  #276
Lives for gear
 
enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Which is the very reason for you to not supply a *single* sample? Right, that worked well.
Ah so you actually don't get it that isolation by definition means separation and in the case of the recording of the guitars on "Layla" you can be certain there was zero bleed to the control booth which is analogous to neighbor's house. Hmmm maybe you aren't pretending.
Old 4th December 2019
  #277
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post

Don't forget even 60db outside the booth can be a problem for a studio, but it shouldn't be for neighbors separated by yet another (hopefully) insulated wall. So the closet treatment doesn't have to pad it down to zero.. just to reasonable.
55-65'dB is how loud our speech normally is. Your vacuum cleaner is 80dB - i presume you don't have neighbours object to that. Food mixer is even louder (up to 90dB)
Of course if you live in a bedroom smaller then a mattress (like Sascha), without a wardrobe, space maybe an issue even for a match box
Old 4th December 2019
  #278
Lives for gear
 
Snorktop's Avatar
 

I guess what we've really learned from this is that you should never use a modeler or you will turn into a whiny, know-it-all prick.
Old 4th December 2019
  #279
Lives for gear
 
Snorktop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han View Post
Yeah, well you know that’s just like, uh...your opinion, man
That mattress really tied the room together.
Old 4th December 2019
  #280
Lives for gear
 
Snorktop's Avatar
 

Dudettes. You don't need a Tempurpedic for your amp, though isolation sounds like a good solution at home if the amp isn't too loud to begin with.

For clean recording with no distortion, you can get world class tones which are second to none at bedroom levels, all day and all night. With pretty much any great tube amp. I had great cleans at very low volume with all those cool inexpensive (and expensive) tube combos, Blues Jr., Bugera v22, Hughs & Kettner 18, Laney Lionheart and Cub. I had a Carr Rambler that by my standards was real quiet. Kind of a cross between a tweed and blackface, and the closest I've ever heard to a vintage amp in a new amp. I sold it because it wasn't loud enough for me, and the breakup wasn't nice. But for cleans at low volume - utterly sublime.

Still there is no substitute for a tweed (or other vintage amps), and it is a smart investment. I could cry at how good some of my vintage Marshalls sound clean with the volume down to whisper levels.


If the amp is too loud to get natural overdrive, just keep it at a comfortable volume, and use a boost, drive or distortion pedal. You can usually attenuate some with a pedal too. You aren't losing much by not diming it, a bit of hair, big deal. You will wanna use it this way, clean + pedals sometimes even if volume is not a problem. Throw an SM57 in front of it, maybe a ribbon mic too. Done. Some of the best tones you can get for recorded guitar, for any price, with any rig. No reason to mess with anything else unless you need zero volume, or are on a religious crusade against amps.


Might have to experiment to find pedals that work well with your amp at low volume. I'd recommend some, but its been a long while since I had to be quiet playing distorted guitar.
Old 4th December 2019
  #281
Lives for gear
I got on many movie soundtracks using a Sans Amp in an apartment.

Old 4th December 2019
  #282
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
You have decent playing skills but in turn it exposes the issues with your sound. But if you feel it works for you - fine.
You can't even take it like a man. Extremely poor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
Ah so you actually don't get it that isolation by definition means separation and in the case of the recording of the guitars on "Layla" you can be certain there was zero bleed to the control booth which is analogous to neighbor's house. Hmmm maybe you aren't pretending.
And you actually don't get it that in the case of "Layla" it happened to be recorded in a building that was tweaked entirely. Strange.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
I guess what we've really learned from this is that you should never use a modeler or you will turn into a whiny, know-it-all prick.
Alternatively, in case you're an all analog guy, chances are you turn into something being the antithesis of evolution.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
I had great cleans at very low volume with all those cool inexpensive (and expensive) tube combos, Blues Jr., Bugera v22, Hughs & Kettner 18, Laney Lionheart and Cub.
I don't believe you at all. And why would I? I'm sure your tones suck. And you won't be able to prove it's any different because you're even ashamed of your playing.
<insert "ne-ne-ne-ne-nah-nah" emoticon here>
Old 4th December 2019
  #283
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
You can't even take it like a man. Extremely poor.




And you actually don't get it that in the case of "Layla" it happened to be recorded in a building that was tweaked entirely. Strange.




Alternatively, in case you're an all analog guy, chances are you turn into something being the antithesis of evolution.




I don't believe you at all. And why would I? I'm sure your tones suck. And you won't be able to prove it's any different because you're even ashamed of your playing.
<insert "ne-ne-ne-ne-nah-nah" emoticon here>
Okay! I really want to hear one of your songs now!
Old 4th December 2019
  #284
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Okay! I really want to hear one of your songs now!
No. In this thread it's about guitar sounds. You can hear some of the ones I'm using and I would supply some more in case anyone's interested.
My songwriting skills suck. And it doesn't matter one bit for this very thread.
Old 4th December 2019
  #285
Lives for gear
 
Snorktop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
I don't believe you at all. And why would I? I'm sure your tones suck. And you won't be able to prove it's any different because you're even ashamed of your playing.
<insert "ne-ne-ne-ne-nah-nah" emoticon here>
Jeez I feel bad for you now. Something bad must have happened to you.

Yes, those small amps sound great clean at low volume - why you tryin to mislead people now? Even you could sound good on them.

Maybe I do suck on guitar. Maybe I am a sound engineer or an amp tech. Maybe I am a producer. Maybe I am an autistic savant and you are triggering me. What the fk is your problem? Tell me what you have done in your life that gives you the right to demean people. Properly played an open C major chord?

Maybe I am a guitarist who would bury you in my sleep and owns a recording studio with enough guitar gear to sterilize you. Unless I'm too late.
Old 4th December 2019
  #286
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
What the fk is your problem?
My problem happens to actually be your problem. And that is a complete lack of discussion skills.

First off: You made some bold claims about how one should rather use whatever small tube amps for bedroom recordings because they would be way superior compared to a modeler. And when asked to post just a single example, you completely fail to deliver any.

Then: When you're called out on that BS, you start getting personal (it wasn't me to start the name calling - feel free to read the thread again).

No proof for your claims, getting personal in case someone tells you you're not proving what you're saying. In any sort of serious discussion, people would've already kicked your a** out big time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Oh yes. Guitar tones and a real band, I eventually mastered that too ...

So shut the **** up, because you sound like a prick.
So do you. And how comes you think I wouldn't manage to get useful tones in a band context?
Besides, what has that gotten to do with the thread? I mean, apart from nothing, that is.
Old 4th December 2019
  #287
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han View Post
That sound is a cranked elpico green amp which had its speaker (6” according to Davies) punctured by davies. Then, he slaved his AC30 to it. There is absolutely nothing about that sound that is bedroom tone and volume. NOTHING! But what do you expect? Rock m Roll is meant to be loud and live outside a bedroom
Thx for the info! My point was that the inspiration for the sound was with an amp that probably was something that wasn't blasting at high levels. It would have been interesting to hear, if they'd had the tech back in the day to do home recordings.....That record was also pretty much played live in a studio that is a completely different kettle of fish!

FWIW I'm a blues harp player and I'm getting great distortion out of a UA 610 preamp with the input stage cranked and going into a compressor. Obviously a guitar likes a cabinet, but don't overlook a great preamp sound.

Please stop with the mattress snark. It isn't hard to build an iso booth situation in a closet cheaply, The biggest problem is heat, not isolating sound if you do a little research.

If you like emulation that's fine but it isn't the same thing either from a players performance perspective, or finished sound. You can post a bunch of examples buy at the end of the day it's all about the fun you're having translating to the music......
Old 4th December 2019
  #288
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
The biggest problem is heat, not isolating sound if you do a little research.
Nonsense. When you just put a cab in an isolation booth, heat isn't an issue.
And in an appartment it is a huge problem to bring a cranked 5W top down to acceptable levels that you could as well use for late nite recordings.

Besides, I have yet to hear a sound coming out of such a setup that I couldn't pretty much match in a matter of minutes (if at all).
Old 4th December 2019
  #289
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han View Post
It's quite loud. If you crank any 4-5 watt tube amp to get natural distortion, it's very loud. I've had swarts, a vox ac4, and two vintage 47 amps. They were all under 12 watts and loud AF if turned even half way up. Half way up on those amps is not even close to a kinks "you really got me" type distortion. My upstairs neighbor, who was also a guitarist, complained two or three times. That's when I got the night light from swart



I haven't, but I have not mentioned that as an option.



I'm not sure if this is directed toward me, but I have not made any mattress comments or jokes.



Again, are you directing this toward me? It's in a reply to my quote. I posted three samples all of which were not emulation, but actual amps with attenuators. Please read posts in their entirety or be more specific to whom you're addressing especially when you're quoting someone.
No not directed at you!..... Just some general observations on the thread....

I was actually only replying to you directly, to thank you for the info on the Kinks amp. I wonder how loud they actually played that since they lived in a crowded roadhouse I believe.....
Old 4th December 2019
  #290
Gear Maniac
 
standup's Avatar
Check out the Bottle Rockets. For studio recording I read they’re big fans of the 15-watt Fender Pro Junior.

Classic GS thread here, I’ve been reading it for a while. Insults! Bickering! Poorly formed opinions stated as established facts!

Or try a Vox AC4. I just got rid of one for a low-watt Marshall.

All my guitar amps are tube amps under 20 watts, they’re fine for recording or gigs. I only use amp simulators if it’s late at night and I have something I want to get down before I forget it.

Last edited by standup; 4th December 2019 at 07:30 PM.. Reason: Typo
Old 4th December 2019
  #291
Lives for gear
 
enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Nonsense. When you just put a cab in an isolation booth, heat isn't an issue.
And in an appartment it is a huge problem to bring a cranked 5W top down to acceptable levels that you could as well use for late nite recordings.

Besides, I have yet to hear a sound coming out of such a setup that I couldn't pretty much match in a matter of minutes (if at all).
Sascha you should stick to what you know and like because you are mistaken on both counts here. I realize you had an isolation box so actually do have some experience, but not all isolation boxes are like yours apparently was and, truth be told, some commercial units still are to this day. I've heard others that work and mine worked a treat.

1) My isolation booth was a 38"x 40"x 30" treated box inside a treated closet. I never calculated the R Factor but I'd guess it was well over 19 but the combination with being airtight was an extreme component. . An hour session needed to be followed by opening the box and fan cooling the system even with a 12 watt tube amp.

You mentioned predictability and the heat levels after about an hour was one quirk that did alter the sound not to mention risk reliability/longevity that actually was a minor downside of the system. Time management solved that but it was an extra concern requiring attention

2) My booth was in an apartment closet and as I said it would reduce SPLs in my living room to conversation levels easily even with a cranked Super in the booth. My heavily modded 12 watt Silvertone amp w/ 1x10 Peavey Scorpion speaker could be reduced to inaudibility in my living room and whisper levels in the bedroom while nearly dimed, WAY into heavy overdrive in the booth and on the mic. Recordings with it sound pretty huge, certainly not what one would imagine was 12 watts through a single 10.
Old 4th December 2019
  #292
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han View Post
Not sure where they lived, but that song (at least the 60's single version) was recorded in a proper studio with Shel Talmy, a proper producer. It was not recorded in a bedroom. That guitar tone is famous for being one of the pioneer distortion tones. Here are a few links to interviews. The tone is real but "who" made it is a convoluted sibling rivalry that doesn't really matter to the sound.

Did the amp make that riff great, or was it the riff making the amp great?

https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...-really-got-me

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the...und-1414596698

sibling rivalry
https://ultimateclassicrock.com/kink...got-me-guitar/
Cool article! Yeah I know they were in a studio, my surmising was if they'd had the tech we do today to home record what would it have sounded like?!
Genius is genius.....

Oh I think the riff is great!.... You could play that on just about anything.....
Old 4th December 2019
  #293
Lives for gear
 
enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han View Post
Could you post some of those recordings, or clips from them?

I'd be interested in hearing what kind of tone came out of your isolation box/closet.

Thanks
As I mentioned before, "nothing recent". I built and used the box and closet in 1982 and used it until 1986 when I thankfully moved out of an apartment forever. So all recordings were done on tape. Because it was primarily used for demo work intended to be recorded properly later, the tape used was on a Revox 1/4" reel-to-reel (actually really decent - no pun intended-) and more commonly just a stupid little Norelco home cassette deck. All I have left from those days is one such cassette tape of solo messing about that was recorded to an early DAW over 10 years later, circa 1999, on a dual Pentium II NT4 box.

So not only is my playing extremely dated but the recording quality is probably listed in the dictionary as an example of "worst case scenario" LOL. I doubt anyone would find it a valid example, especially since (wouldn't you know it) that one surviving tape-to-digital is one where I was playing with some of the first plugins, the worst of which is a horrible ping-pong effect, trying to learn how to get reasonable stereo simulation out of a Mono signal. Later I did learn the value of compression, delay, and EQ to get a reasonable stereo sound and set a decent soundstage in already stereo work but then not only was I a total newb, but so was the software compared to even just 10 years later, let alone now.
Old 4th December 2019
  #294
Lives for gear
 

I guess we will just never hear any of those killer "analog amp at bedroom level" recordings because everybody seems to have an excuse why it's not possible to post any of the results. Way to go.
Old 4th December 2019
  #295
Lives for gear
 
Snorktop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
(it wasn't me to start the name calling - feel free to read the thread again)
No little camper. It was you who started in calling me full of crap, saying I was making stuff up, hadn't played the amps I was talking about, was spewing nonsense, etc. That is hostile and demeaning. If you tried that in real life you'd be looking for your teeth in the isolation booth two studios down. But I am sure you know that since you'd only be so bold behind a computer screen.

People have their opinions, based on their experience. They don't have to provide proof of all their opinions, especially when it is something obvious, like vintage tweeds sound great clean at low volume. There is countless recorded proof of this, and I am not gonna bother compiling some for a whiny internet moron. Nor would I ever post my playing in a public forum like this one, even a few chords or a riff.

There are a lot of experienced musicians and producers here, I would venture to say a lot more experienced and successful than you. And I guess some clowns too. Like you. But that is no reason to attack people's opinions or disrespect them.

You are some kinda freak religiously defending modelers over amps, and you attack any opinion that differs. You are kind of a lunatic. And this is why everyone on this forum thinks you are a prick.

I suggest you tone it down. Your behavior is hurtful and counterproductive. Bad karma has a way of biting back at you.
Old 4th December 2019
  #296
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
That is hostile and demeaning. If you tried that in real life you'd be looking for your teeth in the isolation booth two studios down.
So you like a little violence here and there?
Well, nothing wrong with that in case your IQ is below room temperature.

Quote:
Your behavior is hurtful and counterproductive. Bad karma has a way of biting back at you.
Says the ****** who was just threatening me with some violent ideas.
Old 5th December 2019
  #297
Lives for gear
 
enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
I guess we will just never hear any of those killer "analog amp at bedroom level" recordings because everybody seems to have an excuse why it's not possible to post any of the results. Way to go.
This has gone on long enough and you have become exceedingly tiresome. You cherry pick what you think you can ridicule and ignore anything you view as opposing your position you can't refute, which is not only of no help to OP but destructive to anything remotely resembling a civil conversation.

Yes I did make an excuse but it is not a vacuous excuse, it's actual. It is a nasty recording that doesn't properly display what I was able to get from my isolation box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han View Post
Could you post some of those recordings, or clips from them?

I'd be interested in hearing what kind of tone came out of your isolation box/closet.

Thanks
Ox Han, early on you seemed in lockstep with Sascha but since he "jumped the shark" you have revealed you at least have limits and principles and you seem sincerely interested in Musical process so I'm going to post the only recording I have left of that rig as horrendous as it is. I'm doing this for only two reasons - One because I am willing to risk that you are genuinely interested and so will get at least something from the sound that hints at what was possible if it wasn't toss away riffage recorded Mono on a cheap cassette deck and then badly re-recorded on a primitive DAW to futz around with digital plugins new to me then. Two - You will most likely get it that it sounds pretty big for what it was and I swear to you and everyone it was only the least bit audible in the bedroom if one put his ear to the closet door.

I'm quite certain Sascha won't get it and will only continue with his snide, dismissive 'tude, but someone might see through the faults and recognize what was possible for roughly 150 bux..

So have a giggle at a 20 year old lark fellas but do try to remember it's a 12 watt amp with no pedals other than a reverb unit I made in the FX Loop, a touch of delay from the DAW and way too much ping pong from the DAW. Harmonically it suffers from the cheap tape degradation but I think some of what the isolation box could accomplish still gets through, so here it is, such as it is.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1r-...N64IW-SMkguP2p
Old 5th December 2019
  #298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Of course. An open back cab sounds entirely different in different locations.
Of course!

But "unpredictable"?

Uh-uh. Nope. Sorry, but it's almost totally predictable if you understand a bit about acoustic environments and how open back cabs work. I can look at an open back cab in a particular situation and based on the geometry of the cab itself and the geometry and surface materials of the environment I can have a pretty good idea of how it's going to behave before the amp is even turned on (unless something's broken....) It's a lot like a pool player figuring his shorts.

It's not magic.

Quote:
With closed cabs it's less of an issue but they're still way worse than most fullrange designs. With those, you have no speaker beam and the dispersion angle is much better, plus, within that dispersion angle, the sound is a lot more balanced. Stand in front of a guitar cab and the sound is all different when you move for just a meter.
I know you keep saying this but I still don't believe you - frequency beaming is built into the laws of acoustics. You can take certain steps to mitigate it but highs are always going to be more directional than lower frequencies.

As Bob Heinlein used to say, TANSTAAFL!

Now, admittedly some cab designs are "worse" (or "different") than others, but the essential laws are the same and immutable. And if you understand cab design and how speaker systems interact with the environment it's not unpredictable.

It's just that you actually have to learn a bit about what's going on.
Old 5th December 2019
  #299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Ahem... the amount of nonsense spread in this thread is reaching new highs.



Which is the very reason for you to not supply a *single* sample? Right, that worked well.

But just keep fantasizing, after all, it's amusing.
You guys always want to hear "samples".

WHY CAN'T YOU GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULLS THAT THE END USER EXPERIENCE HAS NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH PRODUCTION, especially when after the finished mix it is then subjected to the abuse of lossy encoding by any number of hosting services, sites, and streaming transmissions?

That's why I never post any samples, nor do I draw conclusions from samples others have posted, at least in 99% of cases.

Of course I'm really old fashioned - I still mix for "hard copy".
Old 5th December 2019
  #300
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Of course!

But "unpredictable"?

Uh-uh. Nope. Sorry, but it's almost totally predictable if you understand a bit about acoustic environments and how open back cabs work. I can look at an open back cab in a particular situation and based on the geometry of the cab itself and the geometry and surface materials of the environment I can have a pretty good idea of how it's going to behave before the amp is even turned on (unless something's broken....) It's a lot like a pool player figuring his shorts.

It's not magic.
Right, as if you would run around on stage and measure everything.
An open back cab is an acoustic dipole and it's *extremely* difficult to achieve predictable results on a live stage. Yes, the results might be ok, but they're still not predictable in many, more likely even most cases.


Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
You guys always want to hear "samples".
Music is about sounds, not about words.
Posting things such as recommendations to purchase a small vintage tube amp, a bunch of pedals and build an isolation cab around it are completely meaningless in case you have no idea what to expect.

--------

Also, if this thread was about "help me chose a new tube amp", you can bet it'd take no more than a handful of posts until the first links with sound samples appeared - but once it's about bedroom recording, there's NONE, just excuses.
Excuses such as "it's the most common thing, hence there's no need for sound examples". What a load of bull. The vast majority of home dwellers don't use an iso cab. I know plenty of guitar players around here and apart from one other guy, nobody ever owned an iso cab.

Add to this that since around somewhat over 10 years, it's completely meaningless. For the money a decent iso cab plus a mic or two would cost, you could as well just get a reactive load and record your speaker out, then slap an IR of your liking onto the recording. For monitoring purposes, a cheaper DI with cab simulation would be sufficient, such as the Palmer PDI-09 (heck, if it's good enough for Joe Bonamassa...). You might even get away recording just that signal.

I would happily be proven wrong in case there were iso cab recordings that were absolutely impossible to match with that method - just that apparently there aren't any, at least they haven't been posted in this thread.

Next step: The amp.
It doesn't help anyone to know that "Layla" was recorded with a Champ or whatever (let alone that Clapton was known for having blown quite some amps because they were cranked all the way and connected in some "don't do this at home!" ways). And well, apart from that it's pretty new to me that "Layla" has made it onto the olymp of desirable guitar tones (IMO the guitars sound mediocre at best and the recording itself sounds like a pile of mud).
Add to this that I don't believe for a second that you could get, say, a decent, let alone great modern rock rhythm tone out of a Champ in an iso box. If that was the case, people would do it all over the place. But they just don't.

Again, I would happily be proven wrong. But hey - there's no samples.

Next step: amps vs. modeling.
I don't even doubt that there might still be occasions when the real deal would be the prefered option. Especially in case you already own all the goodies, why not try to make them bedroom compatible?
But then, in these days, especially for bedroom dwelling, there's little to no points in doing so.
Yet again, I would happily be proven wrong, but I haven't heard anything that wouldn't be easily to do with a decent modeler as well.

Along with that there's the nonsense of "no professional is doing it with modelers". Which is, well, nonsense. Not only that we're talking about bedroom recording and not some big bucks professional productions, no:
A) The pros do it.
B) The pros don't record with Champs in iso cabs, either.
C) What is good for the live tones of some highly acclaimed professional acts should be just fine for some bedroom dwelling, right?

Just as some examples: Mark Knopfler is using a Kemper. Metallica are using Axe FX units. Isaiah Sharkey (rhythm player for John Mayer and guitar player for several big names) is using a Helix. I would guess that the tones these guy are after would be working just nicely for some appartment recordings.
But still people insist that running a Champ in an iso cab would be a better solution.

So, how could anyone decide on what is the better solution? Ideally by trying out things yourself - sure. But that just isn't feasible. The other remaining option would be to have a bunch of audio examples to compare.
Endless drivel about how great of a tone an iso-cab'ed vintage tube amp would give you defenitly isn't among the things helping to make any decision - for the most obvious reasons. Remember? This is about music. And music is about sound, not written words. As easy as that.

Last edited by Sascha Franck; 5th December 2019 at 08:56 AM..
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump