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One thing I really hate about the new PRS "Silver Sky" ... Electric Guitar
Old 15th April 2018
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Well no he certainly isn't among the hundreds of sweep picking 14 year olds on YouTube but his playing is tasteful and fitting for each song he produces. Which is an art unto itself.

This is what is great about opinions, everyone has theirs, the problem is when they become stated as indisputable facts.
Mayer is pretty average. You can go to open mic night anywhere in the World on a Tues or Wed night and see a guy playing those tired blues licks Mayer does
Old 15th April 2018
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal_SINE View Post
Mayer is pretty average. You can go to open mic night anywhere in the World on a Tues or Wed night and see a guy playing those tired blues licks Mayer does
The are "tired" because that's the style.... it's a genre no different than rock or metal. But you knew that.

I don't expert JM (or James Taylor for that matter) to burst into harmonic minor Ritchie Blackmore fills in traditional song forms like he writes lol

As you know one can go on YouTube ... and hear teens play metal all day. Amazingly well too at times.

So what?

It's a cliched as anything else.
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Old 15th April 2018
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enkindler View Post
Mayer sold records based on his vocals and his song writing talents.
Old 15th April 2018
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal_SINE View Post
Mayer sold records based on his vocals and his song writing talents.
You can say that about anyone. People buy songs, not solos.

TH
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Old 15th April 2018
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
The are "tired" because that's the style.... it's a genre no different than rock or metal. But you knew that.

I don't expert JM (or James Taylor for that matter) to burst into harmonic minor Ritchie Blackmore fills in traditional song forms like he writes lol

As you know one can go on YouTube ... and hear teens play metal all day. Amazingly well too at times.

So what?

It's a cliched as anything else.
Whatever... IMO Mayer is below average. Nothing special. He is not even as good as good as Robert Cray or Warren Haynes. Mayer is like Slash w/ a strat, minus the stage presence. Mayer is actually more boring on stage than Clapton. A Mayer concert experience is one notch above sleep, or coma. Yawn
Old 15th April 2018
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
You can say that about anyone. People buy songs, not solos.

TH
yes, but gold records don't automatically make him a good guitarist. It simply means his songs appeal to lots of fans who buy records.. He didn't sell those gold records based on his guitar playing. He barley plays on those records. He plays chords a few trivial guitar parts. Solos have nothing to do with being a good guitarists. Being innovative in some way, does.
Old 15th April 2018
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal_SINE View Post
yes, but gold records don't automatically make him a good guitarist. It simply means his songs appeal to lots of fans who buy records.. He didn't sell those gold records based on his guitar playing. He barley plays on those records. He plays chords a few trivial guitar parts. Solos have nothing to do with being a good guitarists. Being innovative in some way, does.
I agree, but would add being "innovative" doesn't automatically make one good either, though as Jeff Beck and others have shown, it can be an amazing gift. But most records/songs don't require a whole lot of innovation, at least not popular, commercial recordings meant to appeal to the many rather than the few.

I think writing and playing memorable, song defining parts do though. Led Zep made a career out of simple riffs that are now part of rock history. None were particularly innovative, just integral to the song. Like...the song wouldn't be much without them.

Not meaning to over imply that I feel JM is something amazing, I think he's a good writer and singer but it's not music that thrills me.
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Old 15th April 2018
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal_SINE View Post
Elvis was very special. He was very musical and he was an iconic front man



No way, I'll take the bait though. Malmsteen's style of Neo Classical rock/metal is way more popular among guitarists and artists than playing Chuck Berry licks like Mayer does. YM was pretty special in those early years of his career. He was very unique at one time. Just because you don't like Metal doesn't discount the legions of Malmsteen There are millions. You can bring up Malmsteen since you know the predicable Metal haters here will back your cliche' rhetoric. Not me though. Mayer is not even as good as Slash. YM is top 5 of all time in rock.

You are building a straw-man argument here, really I have two points, none of which are related to your response.

1) It is silly to expect a signature model from a top artist to follow industry trends or fads if the artist actually has control over what is produced.

2) With the decrease in numbers of kids picking up guitar, it is foolish to bet that replica instruments will continue to go up in value like they have historically.

P.S. I appricate and respect artists like Sister Rosetta Tharpe who inspired Chuck Berry, Johnny Cash, Elvis etc... That doesn't change anything I said and my post in no way indicates I don't like Metal.

This following video is just awesome for me today....but how many kids are going to pick up guitar today because of it. I know I didn't even know who Sister Rosetta Tharpe was until I already had a guitar.

Old 15th April 2018
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post

Not meaning to over imply that I feel JM is something amazing, I think he's a good writer and singer but it's not music that thrills me.
he is a good singer and writer. He is very good. Certainly no one needs his signature guitar to inspire them to sing or write great tunes
Old 15th April 2018
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal_SINE View Post
he is a good singer and writer. He is very good. Certainly no one needs his signature guitar to inspire them to sing or write great tunes
That may just qualify for "the silliest post yet" award. No one needs any guitar, signature or otherwise, to inspire them sing or write great tunes . And people are not going to buy the SS believing it will make them a better singer or songwriter ....."
DUH !!!!!! so what's your point then really , other than obfuscation ..........

Obviously none of that has has anything to do whatsoever with whether or not the PRS in question is a good guitar worth considering.
Not to mention , it totally does not matter the least iota, what kind of guitar player you think Mayer is or is not. Obviously it only matters what PRS thinks And apparently PRS thinks he has played enough guitars to know what he likes and is obviously a big enough star to have PRS to bring out a guitar made for him as signature model. As well as an amp.
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Old 15th April 2018
  #101
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal_SINE View Post
Mayer is pretty average. You can go to open mic night anywhere in the World on a Tues or Wed night and see a guy playing those tired blues licks Mayer does
Old 16th April 2018
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enkindler View Post
but how many kids are going to pick up guitar today because of it.
probably none. well hopefully none
Old 16th April 2018
  #103
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Thread Starter
Unbelievable. Before I click you off into never never land, I'll bet $100 bucks you are not anywhere near as good as John Mayer is
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Old 16th April 2018
  #104
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Thread Starter
So back to my original post (which was almost totally ignored, no surprise) you now are FLOODED with reviews when searching on youtube that has easily add up to 100 or so "reviews" of this guitar.

July isn't that far away, but it's kinda like the Ibanez AZ thing where everyone and their uncle has one to "review" but NOBODY has them for sale.

Do they simply not understand that by the time they are available, maybe people have lost their gas?
Old 16th April 2018
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toowrongfoo View Post
Do they simply not understand that by the time they are available, maybe people have lost their gas?
Judging from all the demos online my guess is people will have "lost their gas" when they get tired of the boring tone of this thing. It just doesn't sound as a exciting as a Fender, does it? Lower output, the high's sound rolled off, it doesn't quite have the resonance of a Strat, nor does the tone have the body of a Strat. It just sounds jazzy and flat. Polite. LOL Polite. That's it.
Old 16th April 2018
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal_SINE View Post
Elvis was very special. He was very musical and he was an iconic front man
Agreed. Anyone that doesn't appreciate how well Elvis could sing never heard The Sun Sessions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal_SINE View Post
<snip> Mayer is not even as good as Slash. YM is top 5 of all time in rock.
Don't agree here but time will tell on YM's standing if it hasn't already and for the Mayer vs/ Slash thing (and FTR I like 'em both) although sound quality is horrible on this the playing quality is very clear. Check out



I don't think any observer will conclude that Slash dominated Mayer, possibly the opposite though both did a good job. Not a bad sign when you please Billy Gibbons.
Old 16th April 2018
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal_SINE View Post
Mayer is pretty average. You can go to open mic night anywhere in the World on a Tues or Wed night and see a guy playing those tired blues licks Mayer does
IMHO There's no such thing as tired licks, only tired players.
Old 16th April 2018
  #108
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Dear lord. Why delve into the immaturity that is “this guitarist is nowhere near as prolific as this guitarist” when it’s a guy like Mayer that can actually play?
That just kind of makes us all look bad.

Yeah he did the Berkeley thing, and had the looks and the Beiber whisper vocal range or whatever.
I suppose here’s plenty of things to hate on Mayer for.
But his guitar playing really isn’t one of them.
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Old 16th April 2018
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toowrongfoo View Post
So back to my original post (which was almost totally ignored, no surprise) you now are FLOODED with reviews when searching on youtube that has easily add up to 100 or so "reviews" of this guitar.

July isn't that far away, but it's kinda like the Ibanez AZ thing where everyone and their uncle has one to "review" but NOBODY has them for sale.

Do they simply not understand that by the time they are available, maybe people have lost their gas?
I suppose it is true that some will have lost interest and probably will have purchased a Fender or other maker Strat style in the interim . And could represent some % of potential lost sales. But I guess the question what is that actual %


But I would also guess that PRS has weighed possible limited patients, against the PR value of glowing internet reviews. And it could also be that many if not most of reviews are from people (particularly dealers or press types ) who pre ordered and the timing simply represent a first come first served situation.

I was told by my local dealer that PRS is not changing their long standing policy of doing mixed model production runs. That is to say the production reflects the mix of models that have been ordered currently and is not a dedicated single model run
Old 16th April 2018
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
Agreed. Anyone that doesn't appreciate how well Elvis could sing never heard The Sun Sessions.



Don't agree here but time will tell on YM's standing if it hasn't already and for the Mayer vs/ Slash thing (and FTR I like 'em both) although sound quality is horrible on this the playing quality is very clear. Check out



I don't think any observer will conclude that Slash dominated Mayer, possibly the opposite though both did a good job. Not a bad sign when you please Billy Gibbons.
Mayer's phrasing and timing are so much better than Slash's on that clip.

John has a great feel and timing/tone that's the stuff that's beyond technique/cliché/etc

People knock BONAMASSA too and he has the same, great tone/feel/timing and they've both carved a career as guitarists.

It's very easy to knock when you're sat in your bedroom or doing your function gig, most people have NO idea what it's like to actually get out there and carve a niche for yourself as any kind of Solo artists.

MC

MC
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Old 16th April 2018
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues Bird View Post
Judging on the Silver Sky without having played one yet and instead ranting about radius, headstock, John Mayer or the capitalist system is moronic behavior at its best.

If feel for the guys who do so, since chances are that they don’t get their s**t straight elsewhere either.
An astute observation in general and quite possibly a valid psychological prediction.

One would think given this is an audio engineering forum that even hobbyists audio recording posters (of which I am one) would understand the patently basic concept and logic that:
On a Youtube video that last thing you are actually hearing is the source. That is to say what you are actually hearing is the reverse order of the signal flow, the hardware, software and processing and the effect that all these elements have on the original source sound is what you hear before and effecting the original source sound .
But then again basic logic often does not coexist well with agenda
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Old 16th April 2018
  #112
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While I don't think much of Mayer's songs (just not my cup o' tea at all), I've heard him play live at the Clapton Crossroads concert, and he played quite well. Better than a few others more well-known for their playing, actually.

Someone mentioned liking the PRS better than the Vai Jem; I personally don't get it. Vai & co. sculpted something different than what was out there at the time. The Silver Sky is just another Strat, however, with a PRS headstock. Nothing exceptional or different, and nothing that makes me curious about it, or want to even pick one up if I see it in a store. I just don't see what all the hoopla is about, this thread included.
Old 16th April 2018
  #113
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
While I don't think much of Mayer's songs (just not my cup o' tea at all), I've heard him play live at the Clapton Crossroads concert, and he played quite well. Better than a few others more well-known for their playing, actually.

Someone mentioned liking the PRS better than the Vai Jem; I personally don't get it. Vai & co. sculpted something different than what was out there at the time. The Silver Sky is just another Strat, however, with a PRS headstock. Nothing exceptional or different, and nothing that makes me curious about it, or want to even pick one up if I see it in a store. I just don't see what all the hoopla is about, this thread included.
That is probably referencing my comment.

While I fully admit this is opinion, outside of the handle I don't see the Jem as anything but another form of HSH Super Strat. But I am interested if I am missing what it offers outside of the handle and being a signature model that the HSH versions of the Beretta, Soloist, or dozens of other versions. IIRC Vai, being an excellent business man actually moved to Ibanez after shopping around for a larger vendor than Anderson guitars.

John Mayer quite publicly stated that Stevie Ray Vaughan was the artiest that launched his interest in guitar, so I expected it to be a strat. Heck Joy division is why I have a Bass VI, as I had no access to a Shergold 6 and J Mascis is probably the reason I picked up an offset vs a superstrat in 1986.

Maybe my opinion is colored by growing up in that era, the Jem handle seems to be the only huge difference from the piles and piles of superstrats that grew out of EVH's popularity in the early 80's. That was the majority of the market in my area by the time the Jem arrived in 1987.

But as I said above, I may just me missing something. The Jem does seem to be more successful than most in this reboot phase so I may be missing something if it isn't an attraction to an guitarist you really like (vs respect).

Musical tastes and preferences are very different from respect, and I do respect the skills of lots of these artists, and I can only run arps like Yngwie Malmsteen in my wildest dreams. In my opinion he can be one of the 10 greatest electric guitar players of all time from a technical standpoint yet still his style may not serve the song as well as John Mayer does with his style.

They are just different skills, and I respect this skill even if I would hit the skip button or change the radio station if they came on.

Not really in response to this post, but if you think John Mayer isn't inspiring people to pick up and learn the guitar you may want to check out how many videos there are on Instagram.

My musical tastes are suspect, as an example I am probably only one of a handful of people in the world who still has a Lync CD in their car.

That said the impact of people like Taylor Swift and John Mayer in today's fractured music market cannot be denied. Sure it isn't my thing, but it is what kids have today as an accessible reference and inspiration.
Old 16th April 2018
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enkindler View Post
That is probably referencing my comment.

While I fully admit this is opinion, outside of the handle I don't see the Jem as anything but another form of HSH Super Strat. But I am interested if I am missing what it offers outside of the handle and being a signature model that the HSH versions of the Beretta, Soloist, or dozens of other versions. IIRC Vai, being an excellent business man actually moved to Ibanez after shopping around for a larger vendor than Anderson guitars.

Maybe my opinion is colored by growing up in that era, the Jem handle seems to be the only huge difference from the piles and piles of superstrats that grew out of EVH's popularity in the early 80's. That was the majority of the market in my area by the time the Jem arrived in 1987.

But as I said above, I may just me missing something. The Jem does seem to be more successful than most in this reboot phase so I may be missing something if it isn't an attraction to an guitarist you really like (vs respect).
I understand Mayer may be driving some adoption and sales of guitars now.

The Jem series was a culmination of Vai and a couple of others (wasn't Rich Lasner involved?) work on the superstrat. It had unusual features for its time; more access to the higher frets (sculpting out the cutaway), unique pickups and switching, a fast fingerboard that felt like no other... Many (including Ibanez themselves) copied a lot of the features of the Jem, incorporating these into their version (I've got one; a Yamaha RGZ), and they were unique at that time. Now, everyone and their mother makes something like that, minus the goofy handle. But the Jem plays like a dream, and sounds really nice clean or dirty, still. But it costs an awful lot for a production bolt-on guitar.

Does the Silver Sky bring anything evolutionary to the table? I don't see it.
Old 16th April 2018
  #115
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A lot of hate on here!

I love Johns's first record and not so much after that, but I love his playing. No way is he average, excellent guitar player.

I had a PRS guitar for years, high quality, easiest guitar to play ever!

But in the end I kept my Strat (that I've had since the 80's) and sold the PRS. It is just too "polite", the Strat has more of an edge, though harder to play.

I'd love to check out this PRS "Strat", actually.
Old 16th April 2018
  #116
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
I understand Mayer may be driving some adoption and sales of guitars now.

The Jem series was a culmination of Vai and a couple of others (wasn't Rich Lasner involved?) work on the superstrat. It had unusual features for its time; more access to the higher frets (sculpting out the cutaway), unique pickups and switching, a fast fingerboard that felt like no other... Many (including Ibanez themselves) copied a lot of the features of the Jem, incorporating these into their version (I've got one; a Yamaha RGZ), and they were unique at that time. Now, everyone and their mother makes something like that, minus the goofy handle. But the Jem plays like a dream, and sounds really nice clean or dirty, still. But it costs an awful lot for a production bolt-on guitar.

Does the Silver Sky bring anything evolutionary to the table? I don't see it.
To be honest I am too much of a meat head to play a strat without hitting the volume knobs. So this isn't my market at all.

But what I see: More access to the higher frets (sculpting out the cutaway), knife-edge screws designed for a flush set on the trem which may actually stay in tune (but I doubt it), unique pickups, vintage-style closed-back locking tuners, and a fretboard radius that copies the "golden" era of strats, double action truss rod, improved comfort heal.

I do have a buddy who had a Hagstrom III, which he still gigs with today that may color my opinion of the superstrat necks, which is still a lower action and thinner neck than the strat copies I remember, but he still shreads in a way that is impressive to me with that guitar. My hands are too large for those necks though, and from what I understand John Mayer has larger hands too.

It is a unique collection of traits but isn't probably new for any one feature.

I don't see John Mayer using E6 very often, so I don't know if 24 vs 22 frets matters, but while the exact collection of features is probably unique, I don't see any reason to debase one artists "dream features" just because I don't like them.

If another artist's list of dream features matches with what you want, that is awesome!!! I just find it humorous when people get all angry about some other artists desires not matching up with their personal preferences. God knows the 7.5" radius excluded me from this guitar even if I didn't have a mental block around picking near the bridge and hitting the knobs (which is where my mosrite fuzzrite works best)

I am a gear slut who envy's people like Brian May who made his perfect guitar in high school, and has never desired to change.

That said, if I was interested in a modern take of an early 60's strat, or even wanted a player I would be far more likely to chose this guitar over a $4,000 plus Fender custom shop to get an instrument that is produced by an OCD crew with the freedom to actually care about quality.

My main guitar is a custom shop 58 jazzmaster, and I am still annoyed I had to pay more for distressing. The closet classic version was the cheapest form I could get with the features I wanted without going full custom which would have cost a lot more. If someone had made what I wanted for $2000 less that would have been awesome, especially if it was from a builder like PRS.

Yes my list of wants just as oddly specific as Vai or Mayer although I don't have the same skills and never will.

I hope those who like this guitar enjoy and play the hell out of it, and I hope those who want something different can find the funds or luck out by having someone create their ideal guitar.

Sorry if I offended anyone, I am going to move on to obsessing about gear I do want to buy.
Old 16th April 2018
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enkindler View Post


I am a gear slut who envy's people like Brian May who made his perfect guitar in high school, and has never desired to change.

I bought a Guild 'Brian May' guitar in the 80's. Very expensive guitar that I took a chance on.

And while it nailed that May sound pretty well, I found it to be kind of a one trick pony.

I took a major hit when I sold it.
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Old 17th April 2018
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboJets View Post
You don't think there are enough video demo's out there for someone to make a somewhat informed preliminary judgment?

Also, I take it you have played one yourself.
A judgement yes, an " informed" judgement not really. Certainly one can make an informed judgement on how single specific particular Youtube video sounds over one's specific playback equipment...... Make an "informed" pre judgement on how the source guitar actually sounds not really . Informed as far as an aggregate or sum total of videos listened to ? not really. Given the litterally 100/s of variables involved in each individual room and recording and of process bringing a video to Youtube ?? it's a rough guess at best. (see post 112)

Youtube has some usefulness in terms of making a guess as to what might one want to audition in person. But in terms how the source actually sounds in the room not really. Therefore even though I tend to like what I have heard so far, I would guess I will have to audition one. But I would not try to make a judgement prelim or otherwise as to weather I would like it or similar priced Fender better
Old 17th April 2018
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues Bird View Post
I stick to it: Judging an musical instrument purly from an compressed youtube video is moronic. And it is even more so to post such an uneducated guess in public and proof yourself as a fool who talks about things he has no clue about it.

And yes, I have played the Silver Sky already. I fact, I played it live and in the studio.
So, you are saying I am a moron? That's how I take it any way.

Personally I feel there are enough demo's to make a pretty good judgment whether or not I would like the guitar.

Glad you've played it for yourself. Have you pre-ordered one?
Old 17th April 2018
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
A judgement yes, an " informed" judgement not really. Certainly one can make an informed judgement on how single specific particular Youtube video sounds over one's specific playback equipment...... Make an "informed" pre judgement on how the source guitar actually sounds not really . Informed as far as an aggregate or sum total of videos listened to ? not really. Given the litterally 100/s of variables involved in each individual room and recording and of process bringing a video to Youtube ?? it's a rough guess at best. (see post 112)

Youtube has some usefulness in terms of making a guess as to what might one want to audition in person. But in terms how the source actually sounds in the room not really. Therefore even though I tend to like what I have heard so far, I would guess I will have to audition one. But I would not try to make a judgement prelim or otherwise as to weather I would like it or similar priced Fender better
You make my point, at least in part. I'm convinced after watching several demo video's (especially the ones directly comparing a real Strat to the Sky thingy) that the tone is not something I would be interested in. Heck, Mayer makes it very clear that the goal was to purposefully roll off the high end response that he's never really liked with the Stratocaster.

And its not like we're talking about comparing converters on Youtube, which IMO would be unwise. We're just talking about an electric guitar which again, IMO, is relatively easy to do even given the variables at play.
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