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Ac.guitar is hard to play Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 23rd April 2018
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Considering what you say, I wonder if stringing your electric with heavier gauge strings might not help, giving you a more familiar feel?

I know when I've been playing AG a lot and switch to electric, I can have a tendency to use too much/improper force with my left hand and push strings sideways (and so out of tune) just a bit. Using a heavier gauge on your EG might give you more of the 'resistance' that you're used to on your acoustic.
Yup.

And the thing it’s something that might take you minutes or hours, depending upon how much ac you’ve been playing, and the difference in the tension in the strings between your acoustic and electric.
In my opinion, it’s generally better to have the muscle from playing acoustic.
Adjusting your technique, feel and your mind to the electric to play lighter takes a lot less time than building muscle.
And when you’re playing electric after you’ve built up muscle and technique from the acoustic you have a lot more stamina in your fingers and wrist.
At least I always do.

If you’re mostly playing really technical stuff on electric. You might not want to play acoustic so much.
If you’re looking at doing a session for somebody tomorrow and you’re playing acoustic guitar all night, or a few hours before..
It can be awfully frustrating, nerve racking and take you some time to adjust. And if you have to do that while people are waiting on you, particularly if they’re right in front of you.
It can really screw with your confidence, which you don’t want so much while recording. Lol
Old 23rd April 2018
  #62
Gear Guru
I hesitate to get flamed, but I play my electric with medium gauge acoustic strings. I fingerpick and brush strum mostly in dropped tunings so the heavier gauge is a real help.
Old 23rd April 2018
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardis View Post
I hesitate to get flamed, but I play my electric with medium gauge acoustic strings. I fingerpick and brush strum mostly in dropped tunings so the heavier gauge is a real help.
If it works, it works.

I've been using heavier gauge all around -- but I drop my tunings a half step more or less across guitars, so it only make sense.

One issue folks considering the acoustic strings on electric option should take into consideration is metal composition of those heavier gauge strings.

Google Search dished this snippet up...
Quote:
Bronze and phosphor bronze strings don't work well on electric guitars because the pickups are magnetic and need strings with plenty of iron in them, so they are usually nickel or steel wound. ...

The Hobgoblin Strings Advice Page - Hobgoblin Music USA
The Hobgoblin Strings Advice Page
Old 23rd April 2018
  #64
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kennybro's Avatar
First thing I do when I get an acoustic is to file the nut in a touch, make sure frets are dead level and polished, replace any plastic nuts and saddles with bone, adjust the neck bow back a tad and get a slightly lighter gauge of strings. The cowboy position on a new Martin wears me out. When I get fatigued from the pain, I lose the desire to play. I find that high action and heavy strings don't necessarily sound better, just different. There's usually some leeway to lowering action before buzz hits. Over the years, I've lightened my picking strum to accommodate lower action without buzz. Life is just better that way. You don't have to suffer.

My recorded acoustics sound full and rich plenty. And for live, I have an acoustic electric set up with 10's (sometimes even 9's), and super low action.
Old 23rd April 2018
  #65
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
If it works, it works.

I've been using heavier gauge all around -- but I drop my tunings a half step more or less across guitars, so it only make sense.

One issue folks considering the acoustic strings on electric option should take into consideration is metal composition of those heavier gauge strings.

Google Search dished this snippet up...
Great Point! I think there are non bronze formulas for acoustic which will give you round wound however, I'm really not having any troubles with bass using the straight acoustic strings on the electric. I just go with what sounds good and works for me as is. Plus I have slightly higher frets so the heavier strings don't dive bomb as much. I have to have a fair amount of touch and can't just death clamp them!......

I guess my point is, there are no rules and strings will make a big difference in playability and sound..... If you like acoustic feel, give it a shot, you may be surprised. Not as twangy and greased lightning by any means, dark and moody....
Old 23rd April 2018
  #66
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All guitar is hard to play. If it was easy, then there wouldn't be so many bad ones
Old 24th April 2018
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
-- but I drop my tunings a half step more or less
More or less? Just curious how you get your keyboard/s to play well with that. Detune it/them by the cent?
Old 24th April 2018
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
More or less? Just curious how you get your keyboard/s to play well with that. Detune it/them by the cent?
LOL!

I was afraid that might happen -- I probably should have stuck an 'extra' comma in there, just to make the word groupings more obvious...
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
[...]

I've been using heavier gauge all around -- but I drop my tunings a half step more or less across guitars, so it only make sense.

[...]
... probably should have been written "...but I drop my tunings a half step, more or less across guitars, so it only make sense."

Meaning I downtune most of my guitars, most of the time. Hope that makes a little more sense.
Old 24th April 2018
  #69
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teleharmonium's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardis View Post
Great Point! I think there are non bronze formulas for acoustic which will give you round wound however, I'm really not having any troubles with bass using the straight acoustic strings on the electric. I just go with what sounds good and works for me as is.
When I started gigging with a magnetic pickup system on my acoustic guitars a couple of years ago I tried a few different types of strings. The set that won is phosphor bronze (Newtone MasterClass .011). They had the best string to string balance through the pickup and amp as well as the best overall sound for my style. One of the sets they beat is the GHS White Bronze which was designed for acoustic guitar and magnetic pickups.
Old 25th April 2018
  #70
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by teleharmonium View Post
When I started gigging with a magnetic pickup system on my acoustic guitars a couple of years ago I tried a few different types of strings. The set that won is phosphor bronze (Newtone MasterClass .011). They had the best string to string balance through the pickup and amp as well as the best overall sound for my style. One of the sets they beat is the GHS White Bronze which was designed for acoustic guitar and magnetic pickups.
Wow that's interesting because I just slapped a spare set of D'Addario medium phosphor bronze strings on my electric. I then read the pickups are made to pick up ferrous metal, (logical!), and was surprised the bass was so good.

I am by no means a poster boy for anything to do with guitars, but I will say the sound is quite different from electric strings (that are also very cool). I like my calluses are holding up when I switch to acoustic!......
Old 25th April 2018
  #71
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Lance Lawson's Avatar
 

Yeah guitar is a difficult instrument. Too bad popular modern music isn't based around something easy like Tuba.....................
Old 25th April 2018
  #72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Lawson View Post
Yeah guitar is a difficult instrument. Too bad popular modern music isn't based around something easy like Tuba.....................
I've been bracing for French horn mania...
Old 26th April 2018
  #73
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As a former cornet player I think if I tried to play one today something would explode in my head. So, if not hard, it might be dangerous. Not quite the same though. It would be very hard on my family though. You know...the terrible noise followed by funeral expenses and all.
Old 26th April 2018
  #74
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I typically run my electrics at 11 and my acoustics at 12, so not too far off. But there is still huge difference in tension compared to 10 and 11 on the same electric guitar. Maybe I should go up a bit. I'm left handed but play right handed so my fretting hand has the strength. Are 11.5's a thing?
Old 28th April 2018
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefire98 View Post
I typically run my electrics at 11 and my acoustics at 12, so not too far off. But there is still huge difference in tension compared to 10 and 11 on the same electric guitar. Maybe I should go up a bit. I'm left handed but play right handed so my fretting hand has the strength. Are 11.5's a thing?
I think it’s the scale length too.
Shorter distance between the nut and bridge in an acoustic, it makes more tension.
You can find .115’s but it’s not like whole set is all .—5
Stringjoy has .115’s
I like their strings quite a bit for electric.
Haven’t tried the acoustics yet.
Old 28th April 2018
  #76
I thought shorter scale length equals LESS tension, not more, no? One of the reasons pickers sometimes prefer shorter scale lengths and wider nut etc.
Old 28th April 2018
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermetech Mastering View Post
I thought shorter scale length equals LESS tension, not more, no? One of the reasons pickers sometimes prefer shorter scale lengths and wider nut etc.
Ah you’re right.
I got that backwards.
Yeah that doesn’t make sense then.
Perhaps it’s just the action on most acoustics, which is not near as easy to adjust as it is on most electrics.
I do have one acoustic that has .13’s, has lower action and is easier to play than another acoustic I have that has .12’s.
Old 30th April 2018
  #78
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Could be the fact that most people string their acoustics with bronze/phosphor bronze strings. I'd imagine material along with general string construction would make a difference in tension that gauge and action simply can't account for. Or maybe I'm dead wrong
Old 1st May 2018
  #79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardis View Post
My favorite id David Gilmore. He's the total package, phrasing, tone all of it. The Kinks are my favorite band. From music hall vaudeville to rock to all the different styles they played. There was such and experimental side to music I miss where a band like the Doors would do a real style shift from one song/album to the next. Robby Kreiger would go into slide and pedal steel or acoustic if needed. Rock guys playing acoustic is special. My favorite acoustic player is John Renbourne.

[...]
I missed this before.

Renbourn is my personal favorite folk guitarist, although there are many fine players I also love. I saw Renbourn five times -- including with Jansch.

I suppose it was Leonard Cohen who showed me the potential usefulness and even beauty of even simple fingerpicking when I first started playing at 20. But it was Renbourn whose playing so intrigued and amazed me in coming years that I decided to try to articulate my right hand work and improve my understanding of what to play and when... though, of course, I still fall far, far short of the master -- and my own path has led me to a more spare, spur-of-the-moment improvisational style.
Old 1st May 2018
  #80
As a beginner fingerstyle player I'm in awe of Davy Graham, Bert Jansch, John Renbourn, (and speaking of the undead), Pierre Bensusan and Martin Simpson right now. There was a fabulous documentary by the BBC a few years back called "The Genius of Bert Jansch" that is well worth tracking down, it was on their iPlayer until recently but seems to be gone now.

Trying to learn the original Anji at the moment...
Old 2nd May 2018
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefire98 View Post
Could be the fact that most people string their acoustics with bronze/phosphor bronze strings. I'd imagine material along with general string construction would make a difference in tension that gauge and action simply can't account for. Or maybe I'm dead wrong
I kind of thought this too. And bronze strings have a bit more tension, but it’s not much I don’t think.
If you look at D’Addarios website and compare a set of .12’s for acoustic and electric, the tension for same gauge strings is practically the same.
It’s the A,D, and G strings that are quite a bit heavier gauge of strings in the set.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #82
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I missed this before.

Renbourn is my personal favorite folk guitarist, although there are many fine players I also love. I saw Renbourn five times -- including with Jansch.
Envious! I'm a big fan too. Pentangle is one of my all time favorite bands.

I've mostly been a fingerpicker and only learned to use the pick recently because I could never get enough speed for solos using just my fingers.
Andy from ProGuitarShop (youtube demos) has made me rethink what is possible with fingers though...
Old 3rd May 2018
  #83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pichi View Post
Envious! I'm a big fan too. Pentangle is one of my all time favorite bands.

I've mostly been a fingerpicker and only learned to use the pick recently because I could never get enough speed for solos using just my fingers.
Andy from ProGuitarShop (youtube demos) has made me rethink what is possible with fingers though...
I was lucky enough to see everyone in Pentangle -- but not all at one time. If I'm not mistaken, I think all the shows were at the tiny concert room at McCabe's Guitar Shop in Santa Monica, CA. (That's the venue that Richard Thompson had a friendly association with for many years.)

_______________

Back on actual picking...

We are all at different places in our development, of course, but I'd (almost) always used a flatpick for electric and particularly leads but one day after I'd been doing a lot of acoustic fingerpicking, I was using fingers on my Strat for an arpeggio part and as I was listening back started fooling around with a lead, fingerstyle.

It wasn't something I did much at that point -- the last time I remembered trying it, I had felt like my right hand timing was just not precise/fast enough. But by this time I had been doing a lot of finger work on acoustic and was pleasantly surprised to find that those aspects had apparently improved enough that I felt like I was able to play faster without the pick.

From then on I found myself playing more and more with fingers when I was playing lead -- to the extent that now it's very rare that I use a pick for lead. And when I do, I typically feel like I'm slowed down and have a 'slot' I'm playing through.

Of course, if I could accustom myself to using my 2 and 3 fingers for hybrid picking while holding and using the plectrum with my thumb and 1 finger that would get me around some of that -- and allow me to do the few pick-requiring playing tropes I sometimes use (like downstroke 8ths). But everything in time...
Old 3rd May 2018
  #84
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Hot Vibrato's Avatar
 

One thing that many acoustic guitar players don't have is a guitar that is perfectly set up to suit their technique - and many don't even realize that their guitar is partly to blame for their shortcomings. Acoustic guitar is physically demanding, but the added difficulty that results from playing a guitar with less than optimal action will indeed cause frustration. A good luthier who can customize a setup to suit your particular needs is hard to come by, but worth seeking out.

Most guitars come from the factory with a less than adequate setup, and will only play worse with time. And many of the repairmen and luthiers in the field are less than skilled at setup work. This amounts to a lot of players out there with crappy playing guitars, and often they don't even know it, and their playing suffers as a result.
Old 7th May 2018
  #85
Deleted 6ccb844
Guest
Ignorance is bliss ain't it? I was blissfully unaware how tetchy acoustic guitars can be to tracking latency especially when double tracking, I've been playing acoustic as a practice instrument since I started so I'm proficient with it.. Although bar the odd melodic metal song which generally included a dense mix of other instruments I've never really recorded with them..

It's a whole different ball game recording acoustic and it ain't easy..
Old 9th May 2018
  #86
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I think it really depends on what you're going for when recording acoustic. If you're a good player, and have a good instrument, in a good room, everything will fall into place as long as you listen to your mic placement. How long it takes for it to fall into place depends entirely on what the acoustic does for the song. An sm57 between the 12th fret and the soundhole has given me great results when I have a busy mix but the acoustic needs to be forward and have body (not the scratchy pitched percussion you hear a lot). That's a pretty quick setup. A stereo mic setup with 2 close-ish mics and a room mic is gonna be a lot harder to dial in. This kinda setup would most likely be used in a mix with possibly 3 tracks or less, so the guitar will be a lot more exposed and everything you do to the mics and your playing matters that much more.
Old 14th May 2018
  #87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermetech Mastering View Post
I thought shorter scale length equals LESS tension, not more, no? One of the reasons pickers sometimes prefer shorter scale lengths and wider nut etc.
It does.
Old 14th May 2018
  #88
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
It does.
I have a half size classical strung with a conventional nylon string set.

You tune it up a fourth (from standard) to get an appropriate tension. If you tried to tune it to standard they'd be unplayably loose.
Old 14th May 2018
  #89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefire98 View Post
I think it really depends on what you're going for when recording acoustic. If you're a good player, and have a good instrument, in a good room, everything will fall into place as long as you listen to your mic placement. How long it takes for it to fall into place depends entirely on what the acoustic does for the song. An sm57 between the 12th fret and the soundhole has given me great results when I have a busy mix but the acoustic needs to be forward and have body (not the scratchy pitched percussion you hear a lot). That's a pretty quick setup. A stereo mic setup with 2 close-ish mics and a room mic is gonna be a lot harder to dial in. This kinda setup would most likely be used in a mix with possibly 3 tracks or less, so the guitar will be a lot more exposed and everything you do to the mics and your playing matters that much more.
If you're a good player you can even overcome using a 57 between the 12th fret and the soundhole, especially if the guitar is semi-buried in a busy rock mix. Performance trumps gear.

It still won't be a very good sound if you want to reproduce the real tone of the guitar.

Two close mics won't really be any better due to comb filtering interference, probably worse.

The tone of the guitar consists of different frequency bands emanating from different portions of the instrument and does not really "gel" until you're a couple or three feet away. Close micing does not and cannot get a representative sound. You need a certain amount of distance and for that you need a high quality microphone with good off-axis response, because a mic with poor off-axis response will color the sound in an undesirable way. That's why a mic like a 57 or 421 is unsuitable - both have very poor off axis response. So do the vast majority of "budget" condensers, although recently there's been some improvement in the sub-$1000 LDC category. You also need a mic that does not have a "hyped" presence region, which the majority of "modern" mics do have.

A mic that has good off axis response and is not hyped is generally characterized as having superior "reach", meaning that it sounds as good on a source some distance away as it does on a source that's close-up.

When you have a quality mic at a reasonable distance placement becomes a no-brainer. The only real question is how much distance you need.
Old 14th May 2018
  #90
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G-Sun's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Two close mics won't really be any better due to comb filtering interference, probably worse.
I was just doing a spaced pair of SDCs some 40cm away.
Not ideal, but ok. Performance is still more an issue
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