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Two notes Torpedo Captor vs Suhr Reactive Load
Old 26th March 2018
  #61
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mahuska's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MantraSky View Post
You obviously know you recording technique! It's really a skill to use tools like microphones, IR, modeling and speaker placement to get the best guitar tone. I work with a number of studio's as a session musician (guitarist) and they have heard about and used nearly anything you can think of and I also have a home studio where my goto mic's have been my SM57 & R-121 for spkr cabs.

It's interesting that since using IR's, in side by side comparison, I really like it over mic's? (microphones are a skill to set up) one of my main concerns was how will it translate with the amps of my choice (SLO & BE-100) as apposed to my AxEfx III or Kemper which are great for convenience, but still lacking within the world of digital to analog.

It's been a long time since Ampeg 2" @ 30ips, Neve/SSL etc. The Captor is but one of the elements for capturing tone, but since getting it, it's been a great problem solver "still love microphones" but "Dame IR's can be that good!" and I absolutely Love using my tube amps for recording!

Sweet Rig you got there. About miking cabs vs IR's funny thing is when I received the Suhr Reactive load I also got a ribbon mic to try out. My first ribbon mic experience. I was excited to give that a go almost as much as firing up my amp(s) for the Suhr. I do enjoy miking cabs, especially if it goes well. On the other hand it's so much easier and sometimes sounds better using a load box and IR's. So I'll do both and choose according to what feels right at the time. I also sometimes record DI tracks for reamping and that opens up more opportunities. I started on 4 track cassette then Reel to Reel and my first computer used for sequencing was a Mac SE(think Seinfeld). Move up to a Mac 11ci and Emagic Logic audio. don't want to tell you what my modem speed was back then. Had some nice guitars and a Mesa Rig which was a Triaxis and Simul 2:90 and 2 homemade 2x12 cabs. I also had young children so bought this unit (not associated with the guy in the video) and the reactive load part wasn't bad, had a amp feel but the speaker sims not all that great. I must of ran it off one side of the Simul 2:90

Oh another thing I am wondering if you tried connecting a speaker to the-20db out on the Captor while using the DI. I did and seems like the feel and tone was improved. I'll have to try that again as I do have access pretty much anytime to my Buddies Captor 16 ohm box
Old 26th March 2018
  #62
Mahuska here's a little tune that I've just started, it's recorded with only IR patches, it hasn't been mixed or mastered and more parts to be added \../
Awakening by Michael Garrett Weber | Free Listening on SoundCloud
Old 27th March 2018
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MantraSky View Post
Mahuska here's a little tune that I've just started, it's recorded with only IR patches, it hasn't been mixed or mastered and more parts to be added \../
Awakening by Michael Garrett Weber | Free Listening on SoundCloud
Nice!!!
Thanks for the share. Makes me 1. Want to start playing my synths again. 2. Own a guitar with a FR or whammy bar as out of my stable one has a vintage trem and another a Bigsby. Don't want to compare your tune to something else as that's what most people do. So I'll say it kinda takes you on some kind of Journey(not the Band LOL) and it's enjoyable.
Edit, forgot to ask what guitar(s) and amps used? Also IR's

Last edited by mahuska; 27th March 2018 at 01:17 AM.. Reason: Forgot to add
Old 27th March 2018
  #64
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahuska View Post
Nice!!!
Thanks for the share. Makes me 1. Want to start playing my synths again. 2. Own a guitar with a FR or whammy bar as out of my stable one has a vintage trem and another a Bigsby. Don't want to compare your tune to something else as that's what most people do. So I'll say it kinda takes you on some kind of Journey(not the Band LOL) and it's enjoyable.
Edit, forgot to ask what guitar(s) and amps used? Also IR's
"Thank You!" I wanted to share this song with you as a reference with the Two Notes Captor & Celestion IR patch, I really like the Celestion in some areas over my OwnHammer patches which I think are a bit more "Refined" but still great sounding. Regarding style, I've been playing this way since around '76 as my influences are Hendrix, Beck, Blackmore, Page, Clapton to Di Meola, Metheny, Carlton. I was also on the road for many years, albums etc. I do session work for a living (a lot from my home studio "wave.files" from clients) but I also go to New York and Los Angeles (native of Calif.)
As you might noticed I do love "Floyd's" their a part of my style, classical jazz rock, progressive fusion pop.

The guitar used in the song (a work in process) was the Charvel (CS) BKP Pickups, German Floyd, Schaller 5-way Mega-E switch. Amp used Friedman BE-100 (Dave did a lot of modifications for me) and the IR's were Celestion Lynchbk-4x12-HI-GN-121+57 which I feel sounds very close to what's coming out of my cab (Bogner 2x12OS/V30) it has the "rawness" without sounding refined & processed as the OwnHammer, though their nice also. Extremely low latency and the Captor has a great "Feel" while playing, if I felt even in the slightest that the Two Notes was sub-par, I would get rid of it.

Mike.

Last edited by MantraSky; 27th March 2018 at 10:32 PM..
Old 28th March 2018
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MantraSky View Post
"Thank You!" I wanted to share this song with you as a reference with the Two Notes Captor & Celestion IR patch, I really like the Celestion in some areas over my OwnHammer patches which I think are a bit more "Refined" but still great sounding. Regarding style, I've been playing this way since around '76 as my influences are Hendrix, Beck, Blackmore, Page, Clapton to Di Meola, Metheny, Carlton. I was also on the road for many years, albums etc. I do session work for a living (a lot from my home studio "wave.files" from clients) but I also go to New York and Los Angeles (native of Calif.)
As you might noticed I do love "Floyd's" their a part of my style, classical jazz rock, progressive fusion pop.

The guitar used in the song (a work in process) was the Charvel (CS) BKP Pickups, German Floyd, Schaller 5-way Mega-E switch. Amp used Friedman BE-100 (Dave did a lot of modifications for me) and the IR's were Celestion Lynchbk-4x12-HI-GN-121+57 which I feel sounds very close to what's coming out of my cab (Bogner 2x12OS/V30) it has the "rawness" without sounding refined & processed as the OwnHammer, though their nice also. Extremely low latency and the Captor has a great "Feel" while playing, if I felt even in the slightest that the Two Notes was sub-par, I would get rid of it.

Mike.
The difference between Load boxes in many cases is splitting hairs. Good reference was YT Pete Thorn did and towards the middle end of it did side by sides of quite a few units some reactive some resistive. In the end it's the user and what each individual prefers I have no doubt the Captor works great for you as it does my Friend here locally. Proof in the pudding and glad you shared how well the IR's worked in this tune. I noticed a thread on another forum earlier today, guy get's an email from Celestion and says they are coming out with yet another Marshall 4x12 Greenback cab but this ones should pique some interest as it's a 1971 Marshall 1960B "basketweave" cabinet, loaded with 25 watt Celestion greenbacks and instead of the usual 2-4 days took them 8 months and a additional 30K more in recording gear to capture them. I am more the Indie Songwriter or Classic rock type and though appreciate a lot of Metal I don't do much of that Genre. I let a 1980's Charvel Model 6 go for a song sometime ago, wish I hadn't done that, oh well. Nice feeling neck and a Kahler trem. Stripped the purple off and did a marble like finish. Looked cool.
Old 28th March 2018
  #66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Mihaljevic View Post
bgood, I can't seem to find Jule's Music Box on Reverb or anywhere else for that matter. Could you send me a link?



You're right. Most local stores here don't offer that option, but I could order both online from thomann, do a shootout and return whichever one loses.
Maybe "Julius Music Box" on Reverb?
Old 28th March 2018
  #67
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahuska View Post
The difference between Load boxes in many cases is splitting hairs. Good reference was YT Pete Thorn did and towards the middle end of it did side by sides of quite a few units some reactive some resistive. In the end it's the user and what each individual prefers I have no doubt the Captor works great for you as it does my Friend here locally. Proof in the pudding and glad you shared how well the IR's worked in this tune. I noticed a thread on another forum earlier today, guy get's an email from Celestion and says they are coming out with yet another Marshall 4x12 Greenback cab but this ones should pique some interest as it's a 1971 Marshall 1960B "basketweave" cabinet, loaded with 25 watt Celestion greenbacks and instead of the usual 2-4 days took them 8 months and a additional 30K more in recording gear to capture them. I am more the Indie Songwriter or Classic rock type and though appreciate a lot of Metal I don't do much of that Genre. I let a 1980's Charvel Model 6 go for a song sometime ago, wish I hadn't done that, oh well. Nice feeling neck and a Kahler trem. Stripped the purple off and did a marble like finish. Looked cool.
Thanks for the info!

Last edited by MantraSky; 28th March 2018 at 04:29 PM..
Old 28th March 2018
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Maybe "Julius Music Box" on Reverb?
That was posted a couple months ago. I've bought the Torpedo Captor in the meantime and I'm very happy with it.
Old 28th March 2018
  #69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Mihaljevic View Post
That was posted a couple months ago. I've bought the Torpedo Captor in the meantime and I'm very happy with it.
It must have been stated earlier??

\../

Last edited by MantraSky; 28th March 2018 at 04:19 PM.. Reason: Old thread?
Old 29th March 2018
  #70
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OOpps. I had it wrong regarding that Marshall 4x12 Greenback cab. It's ownhammer not Celestion. Below is a video going over what is included
Old 3rd April 2018
  #71
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Smile Bluguitar Blubox IR (digital)

I use Torpedo Captor with Bluguitar Blubox. Perfect match! Silent recording or 20 db attenuating with mic. Or no attenuating. Simple box. Latency under 1 ms. I hate using daw and plugins when practising.

Dont share my secret! :-)
Old 7th April 2018
  #72
Mahaska, "You were right!" the Suhr Reactive Load is by far a better sounding/feeling truer to the characteristics of speaker/cabinet performance! Thanks!!!

Last edited by MantraSky; 22nd April 2018 at 11:26 AM..
Old 7th April 2018
  #73
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EvilDragon's Avatar
Wall Of Sound is the best cabsim on the market, along with Kazrog Recabinet 5.
Old 7th April 2018
  #74
Wall of Sound is an IR Loader with "Filtering".

It's cool that You like WOS.

Last edited by MantraSky; 7th April 2018 at 03:46 PM..
Old 8th April 2018
  #75
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bgood's Avatar
How do Celestion’s own IR’s sound/perform in wall of sound?
Old 4th May 2018
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MantraSky View Post
Mahaska, "You were right!" the Suhr Reactive Load is by far a better sounding/feeling truer to the characteristics of speaker/cabinet performance! Thanks!!!
Wow I haven't been here for a few weeks and now see this reply. So did you get the Suhr and do a head to head? Ironically I had my Buddy's Captor over last week and tried the new ownhammer IR pack I posted above. Sounded way better than lasts time with the limited IR's I've bought or freebies. Thing is I used the Captor on my 16 ohm only amps and that's what His Captor is as well. Really wish
the Suhr had a 16 ohm unit and am curious about the Fryette power load with switchable 4, 8, 16 ohms. Not really interested in the built in speaker sim but it could very well be the case that the Fryette not performed as well as the Suhr in the load box department. Notice the image you posted no longer available
Old 5th May 2018
  #77
Sorry about the image! I was updating... Here's an Impedance Curve of the Captor in comparison to Suhr, you can see the Suhr has the "Wave form" whereas the Captor simulates the curve, John stated it was due to "Less Parts" in the Captor build and Not the True Representation going to the DAW.
Old 5th May 2018
  #78
Oh here's that photo that failed!
Old 5th May 2018
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MantraSky View Post
Sorry about the image! I was updating... Here's an Impedance Curve of the Captor in comparison to Suhr, you can see the Suhr has the "Wave form" whereas the Captor simulates the curve, John stated it was due to "Less Parts" in the Captor build and Not the True Representation going to the DAW.
Yeah I saw these on another forum and DL'd the pdf. Thing was though I didn't see mention of the Suhr as I thought the first one a "real 4x12 cab" followed by the UAD OX, Captor, MidaTT, but there is an updated one that includes Weber MiniMass and a 16 ohm resistive load. So I just assumed that even though "Suhr" isn't actually named in the chart it should be like the real 4x12 at the top but I could be wrong. Would like to get it straight from John as you say. So the url below is the updated chart.
http://www.masterplant.com/electronics/Z.pdf
Old 5th May 2018
  #80
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahuska View Post
Yeah I saw these on another forum and DL'd the pdf. Thing was though I didn't see mention of the Suhr as I thought the first one a "real 4x12 cab" followed by the UAD OX, Captor, MidaTT, but there is an updated one that includes Weber MiniMass and a 16 ohm resistive load. So I just assumed that even though "Suhr" isn't actually named in the chart it should be like the real 4x12 at the top but I could be wrong. Would like to get it straight from John as you say. So the url below is the updated chart.
http://www.masterplant.com/electronics/Z.pdf
"Yes!" your right and thanks! there were a few discussions where John was referencing this chart (Updated Version) and the Reactive Load was the "Top" wave form and then various graphs from different builders.

Interestingly I was working on a guitar solo where I edited a section, originally recorded with the "Captor" deleted then added "SRL" (side by side Captor & SRL), the level and balance are exactly the same as the Captor (level adjust/bal.) but I can absolutely hear a "Clarity" from the Reactive Load! Same guitar and string condition, amp settings etc. The Captor isn't bad and sounds nice but the Suhr Reactive Load "just sounds better!!!"

Thanks for putting me on the Correct Path, as I wanted to believe that the Captor was a great device it's that it's a "Good" device and the SRL is a "Wonderful" device, I'm keeping the Suhr Reactive Load.
Old 18th September 2018
  #81
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1st post youhou ! Just to say I've read this entire post after buying the Suhr Reactive load for my Blackface Showman (8 ohm), then the Torpedo captor 4 ohm after getting a new 4ohm amp (Gomez Surfer, i.e. Showman Brownface clone). After running extensive tests between the two, I've found the Suhr sounds better, definitely more clarity. And this is despite the impedance mismatch (4ohm Surfer in the 8 ohm Suhr). I play clean sounds using Jaguar/Jazzmaster. Here is for my experience.
Old 14th July 2020
  #82
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The difference is the impedance curve which does change the frequency response in a tube amp. Suhr uses a real Impedance curve that mimics a real curve in a cab. Others usually don't because it is apparently easier and cheaper to use a U shaped curve. They sound and feel different for sure. Reactive loads are not all the same
Old 26th July 2020
  #83
Since the thread is brought back - here's a two years later update:
I've mostly gone back to miking my real cabinets. The guitars just seem to sit in the mix better when I mic my actual cabinets!
I use the captor either to silently record demos and scratch tracks or every now and then to emulate the sound of a specific cabinet which is very different from the ones I have.
The Captor sounds good! But my real cabs and mics sound better to me.
Old 28th July 2020
  #84
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
From my understanding, reactive loads wouldn't necessarily have huge differences in sound, compared to passive resistive loads, where the sound difference can be pretty obvious and quite disparaging (I remember trying several resistive loads, each sounded differently, whereas the one reactive load I tried, by Two Notes, it sounded damn near identical to a real mic'd cab, after using their Wall Of Sound software). I might be wrong.

I'm a fan of Two Notes products, so I'd always go with that.
Er, no.

Passive resistive loads all sound the same. It's just a resistor or two in place of the speaker - assuming equal resistance, they're all going to sound the same. Even if the resistance is a bit different it won't change the sound much.Some circuits add a capacitor to induce HF rolloff, half-assedly imitating a speaker, kinda-sorta. That can change the sound in a very rudimentary way, similar to rolling back the treble on an amp.

Be aware that even slight differences in level may give the impression that different boxes sound different (even an imperceptibly louder sound will sound better, even to a trained ear.

Reactive loads, OTOH have circuitry that attempts to simulate the action of a real speaker, more or less. Usually the latter, but some are much, much better than others. The Weber company even makes attenuators and load boxes that contain an actual speaker motor assembly (minus the cone, of course), that comes closer to reproducing some of the more subtle tonal changes. They're all (or mostly) different.

Using the load box with software, however, may change the tone considerably, depending on what exactly the software does.

But that's not the box - it's the software.
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