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Is humanity in music done? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
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John Eppstein's Avatar
 

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Is humanity in music done?

Discuss...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
Lives for food
 

The C chord is for wimps
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
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sadly, I think it is. and if things continue going down the same path we've been on for a decade now, the devastation will rapidly spread to all walks of life (clearly it has already begun to). without drastic change, like now, future generations are in very serious trouble.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
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Yes, my AI does all my music for me.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
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Brutality and cowardice are the new ideals, and there's no point in whining about it. The people who are going to live when we're gone are perfectly fine with it.
.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
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edit: opening chords solved my long-standing wonder why Smashmouth's 'Walking on the sun' sounded so familiar on first hearing.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
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No. Plenty of compassionate music out there. More now than ever. But it's not the commericial drivel. You need to search and find it.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
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Quote:
Is humanity in music done?
Here are the basic definitions of humanity -

1. the human race; human beings collectively;

2. humaneness; benevolence.

There is nothing to suggest that sharing of pleasurable experience (collectivity and benevolence) is any less important than it has ever been in the creation and performance of music.

There is also nothing to suggest that technology has ever or will ever replace humans in the making of music.

No. The answer is no.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9
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A quote From Photographer Galen Rowell "Human art begins to fail when it pursues not [a] central emotional response, but the barren polar opposites of a pure technical exercise," Beside the threat of the loss of all of humanity in the current political clime there is something on one heart reaching out to another that separates art form a mere technical representation of a thing. The soul seeks out and responded to that which has human emotional content in it and the soul cries out to express itself and be understood.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Discuss...
The whole human part of humanity had been viciously excised from music

Kids come up learning in their bedrooms as opposed to playing out... Small music stores are almost all gone... Recording studios too for that matter... Session cats getting replaced by midi loops and virtual instruments...

So, yeah. Gone
Old 2 weeks ago
  #11
No, not at all. The machine will eat itself, we'll still be left banging rocks together.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #12
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Surely if created by humans it will contain humanity, are machines not a result of humanity?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #13
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swafford's Avatar
 

It is.

The end.

And if it's not. Then mono. Always mono. And ears. Ears are important. And always measure your string, how else will you know how long it is?

YMMV.

The end.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #14
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ha..those of you saying.."humanity gone". LOL.

It's here..plenty of it..dont be bitter, you sound like old men...and if you're not old? consider the possibility that you might be.

A friend took me to a show last week in Chicago at a great room called Schuba's..introduced me to Julia Jacklin and band out of Australia.

Incredible with great songs and a killer freakin' band..drummer out of Canada, Ian Kehoe, along for this american tour, killing it..great night and this girl brings some gorgeous songs and delivery..

you can go to bars all over this city almost every night and find plenty of humanity..

yes, dumb question..same question the old people asked when rock and roll was born...so obvious..wake up to your reality and the lack of historical perspective and required personal honesty in this query.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevron View Post
Surely if created by humans it will contain humanity, are machines not a result of humanity?
Eventually machines will be able to create things totally absent of any human connection.

This is a certainty.

The OP, as it's posed - is answerable only by first defining what humanity in music is, which would probably elicit more answers than the initial question itself...rendering the initial question somewhat silly, undefinable and more muddled, which in the end is no victory for clarity by any means.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Eventually machines will be able to create things totally absent of any human connection.

This is a certainty.

The OP, as it's posed - is answerable only by first defining what humanity in music is, which would probably elicit more answers than the initial question itself...rendering the initial question somewhat silly, undefinable and more muddled, which in the end is no victory for clarity by any means.
How can they be absent of any human connection, when humans created them? They will always have an inherent connection...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevron View Post
How can they be absent of any human connection, when humans created them? They will always have an inherent connection...
Because machines can/will create algorithms specifically to circumvent any human connection.

At some point you'll have machines that are modeled from human consciousness, and you'll have machines totally devoid of that (and some with hybrid inclinations).

We just don't know yet how it'll manifest, but all the brightest minds have concluded machine intelligence will surpass that of humans. It's not a stretch to think they''ll create their own consciousness, or a version of it.

Whether there'll be an inherent connection to humans, if for all intents and purposes, and from a practical matter - nonexistent, when it gets to that point will be solely be an issue of semantics, only because humans first created the egg...though by that point will have morphed into some other unrelatable form.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Eventually machines will be able to create things totally absent of any human connection.

This is a certainty.

The OP, as it's posed - is answerable only by first defining what humanity in music is, which would probably elicit more answers than the initial question itself...rendering the initial question somewhat silly, undefinable and more muddled, which in the end is no victory for clarity by any means.
Honestly, I think most folks understand what he means..i don't think his choice of the word 'humanity' really describes what he's looking for..but I'm pretty sure he means, heart, human touch etc etc...humanity , defined formally, doesn't really make much sense.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pchicago View Post
Honestly, I think most folks understand what he means..i don't think his choice of the word 'humanity' really describes what he's looking for..but I'm pretty sure he means, heart, human touch etc etc...humanity , defined formally, doesn't really make much sense.
Well with the recent influx of are <insert instrument here> done threads.. Where he explicitly states machines do not have a "human" touch, it was somewhat logical to connect the dots.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pchicago View Post
Honestly, I think most folks understand what he means..i don't think his choice of the word 'humanity' really describes what he's looking for..but I'm pretty sure he means, heart, human touch etc etc...humanity , defined formally, doesn't really make much sense.
I get that..but my point is even at that, the notion of humanity can be very subjective.

Who's to say fans of Yngwie Malmsteen, Skrillex or Insane Clown Posse that the music they like posses any less humanity even if some/a lot say it lacks it?

In the end, it boils down to personal preference, and I don't know even if some sort of a quorum is met, that somehow validates any sort of truth or a truthful/rightful viewpoint.

If you look back throughout history, most new progressive music forms have been derided by the status quo as all things, including lacking emotion of humanity...the funny thing is, usually those become the popular prevalent form, and it's used a barometer to put down other newer forms. It's a cycle...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #21
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oh, the humanity!! The OP's question is a Spinal Tap question, only answerable by Nigel..that's where we're at.

Old 2 weeks ago
  #22
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Humanity or the lack of it has always been a moving target in music. "Human" and "flawed" are two sides of the same coin, and it's us musicians who are the main force in trying to remove the flaws.

When you audition for an orchestra, revealing more than the tiniest bit of humanity is bad - in fact they have you do it behind a scrim so they can't tell how human you look. Glenn Gould used a razor blade to make himself superhuman. Robert Plant hit high notes on tape exactly once and would never again. Nothing on Saturday Night Live is entirely or even mostly Live anymore. And I'm sure Leadbelly said, "Mr. Lomax, I'm sure I've got a better one in me."

Interesting topic.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pchicago View Post
oh, the humanity!! The OP's question is a Spinal Tap question, only answerable by Nigel..that's where we're at.

Nigel and his Love Pump...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Humanity or the lack of it has always been a moving target in music. "Human" and "flawed" are two sides of the same coin, and it's us musicians who are the main force in trying to remove the flaws.

When you audition for an orchestra, revealing more than the tiniest bit of humanity is bad - in fact they have you do it behind a scrim so they can't tell how human you look. Glenn Gould used a razor blade to make himself superhuman. Robert Plant hit high notes on tape exactly once and would never again. Nothing on Saturday Night Live is entirely or even mostly Live anymore. And I'm sure Leadbelly said, "Mr. Lomax, I'm sure I've got a better one in me."

Interesting topic.
the blind auditions were primarily used to neutralize gender bias.but what of the genius level, one eyed, hunchbacked, 600lb first violinists that make it through?? The jury would be out..for a while..down the street at the bar talking over how to present this to the board.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pchicago View Post
yes, dumb question..same question the old people asked when rock and roll was born...so obvious..
so what is born now? trap? mo drugs and even mo tattoos?
Just give us example of fresh young humanity music please.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pchicago View Post
the blind auditions were primarily used to neutralize gender bias.but what of the genius level, one eyed, hunchbacked, 600lb first violinists that make it through?? The jury would be out..for a while..down the street at the bar talking over how to present this to the board.
Well, it's like the first stop gap in the old boys club, but when a chick gets through, like Sabine Meyer did with the Berlin Phil, they find other ways to keep them out...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gans Ja View Post
so what is born now? trap? mo drugs and even mo tattoos?
Just give us example of fresh young humanity music please.

You just covered one very small sub-genre of music in the world..are you really serious?

Questions beg:

How old are you?
What music made it's mark on you when you were 13-14-15-16 years old or so?
Where did you grow up?
Did you parents like or approve the music you listened to?

I have two boys in their 20's, they listen to a huge range of music..rock to rap as a limited example..My older had a trap phase..now he's whittled it away..some of it is interesting..it touches 'something' in him...dance groove, club nights, something..who am I to say?

My youngest sons first record when he was 12 was the Beatles White Album..which he still loves..Now, his musical selections run the gamut..much bigger range than i ever had..

Se my first post in this thread where I mentioned a show i saw a few days ago Julia Jacklin..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #28
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Mikhael's Avatar
 

Take "in music" out of your question, and then ask it. I don't think most of us will like the real answer.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #29
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevron View Post
Surely if created by humans it will contain humanity, are machines not a result of humanity?
Machines are a product of humanity, just as CO2 and turds are (sometimes) products of humanity. But a product of a product of humanity is not a product of humanity, it has had the human part excised.

Does CO2 contain "humanity"?

I don't think so.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #30
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pchicago View Post
yes, dumb question..same question the old people asked when rock and roll was born...so obvious..wake up to your reality and the lack of historical perspective and required personal honesty in this query.
No, not the same thing at all, not even close. And i'd venture that I probably have a much greater historical perspective than most people on this forum, given that I've actually studied it from a considerable variety of viewpoints, and continue to do so.

What is both interesting and alarming is that there are a growing number of cyberneticists who are asking essentially the same question about society as a whole, and a growing number are very concerned.
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