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How would you improve the guitar tone in this song?
Old 23rd March 2020 | Show parent
  #31
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicahJude View Post
In the case of Zedd's sound (which is more of what I am after usually), do you have any recommendations for software, hardware, or combination of both?

You mentioned using pre-amps into a suitable DI...could you clarify this for me? I thought Pre-Amps and DI's were pretty flat/clean. When you say preamp, is that the same as a mic preamp, or is there a specific type for DI/guitar signals? I have only ever used the built in DI inputs/preamps on my interface, hence the newb questions.

Just to throw a wrench at the monkey in the machine....my current setup is WAY different from when I first made this post.

my current setup (of which I get some decent results for what I'm doing) is based around absolute EASY and QUICK recording...no mics, no live amp, no having to mute my speaker output and pop on headphones every time i want to record a simple bit...and most important of all: preset tones.

Telecaster > Electro-Harmonix Soul Food (rarely used actually) > Boss DS-1 (only kicked on for solo guitar really) > Boss CL-50 compressor > Yamaha THR10C (amp emulator) > Scarlett 18i20

I found that I am able to get way nicer drive out of the THR10C compared to the distortion pedals or plugins.

If anyone has recommendations for improving this setup, by all means jump in, as again, I am not a pro guitarist by any means.
Well in digital world there are plug-ins and HW units:
1. Plugins - I remember a client using an Amplitude with a Fender Amp pack (I believe done by Fender?) which if the dynamics are less important, was quite decent. A buddy of mine is using Positive Grid Bias FX and I like it a lot as far as plug-ind go. Especially when he is using that Guitar Match thingy. I have a Helix Native installed on one of the machines and it sounds like...Helix i guess (not used much as we have all those amps here). Another friend uses S-Gear at home, its ok. A thing to remember is that all of these are very processor intensive, reliant on your IO (sound, latency), and may sound a bit boring without a GOOD doze of reverb (which smears ans changes your sound-stage). There is a number of others out there, which digital aficionados like but they all sound same-y to me.
2. HW - all the usual suspects (AxFx, Kemper, Helix). All are much better then the plugins but you PAY for that. HW Helix is close (but not fully) to the native. As their own entities they do what they do. As a substitute for a tube amp - I would rather use a cheap tube amp with a bunch of pedals and a few speakers. But that's me (and people i work with).
For the price of the Helix you can buy a small amp and a dozen pre-amp and effect pedals. Or something like an AMT pre (3 channels), a small tube power amp (like the Mooer one) and a couple of speakers. I just bought a rack-mounted tube pre from a company called R&R (6 channels, 5 tubes, 1 rack space, multiple outs inc direct with emulation, ~450$). Liked it so much I bought one for home too. Use that (or an AMT SS11B/A (~300$)) into a 2Notes speaker sim (I use the Torpedo CAB at home) and you will never need another emulator for guitar in your life time. Those preamps are on youtube check out these
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lgf_gaquns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k6QIAWljWM

When I mentioned preamps, its was something like those and there are many others, SS or tube. Some are alot more, some are a part of a system (like Synergy) which you can expand as you go. You plug them into a line in on your IO, on a track with a speaker sim (like the Wall of Sound from 2Notes) and Bob is your uncle (do you have an uncle called Bob?)
The Yamaha THR10C is another emulator so has all the advantages/dis-advantages of the digital solutions mentioned. I much prefer the tube pre route - and you don't have to mic. Distortion pedals sound best into them too (like your Boss) as they are designed for the amp front-end. Compressors as required. We sometimes (more on bass) run an instrument pre into a TUBE compressor on a light setting (with an output transformer) to give it some of the power-amp feel.
Just my .002$ Happy to discuss more
Old 23rd March 2020 | Show parent
  #32
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by froleich View Post
Just answer the OP's question, Yuri. Try to be clear and to the point so he doesn't have to write a book trying to clarify it.
You mean I didn't?
Old 23rd March 2020 | Show parent
  #33
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Well in digital world there are plug-ins and HW units:
1. Plugins - I remember a client using an Amplitude with a Fender Amp pack (I believe done by Fender?) which if the dynamics are less important, was quite decent. A buddy of mine is using Positive Grid Bias FX and I like it a lot as far as plug-ind go. Especially when he is using that Guitar Match thingy. I have a Helix Native installed on one of the machines and it sounds like...Helix i guess (not used much as we have all those amps here). Another friend uses S-Gear at home, its ok. A thing to remember is that all of these are very processor intensive, reliant on your IO (sound, latency), and may sound a bit boring without a GOOD doze of reverb (which smears ans changes your sound-stage). There is a number of others out there, which digital aficionados like but they all sound same-y to me.
2. HW - all the usual suspects (AxFx, Kemper, Helix). All are much better then the plugins but you PAY for that. HW Helix is close (but not fully) to the native. As their own entities they do what they do. As a substitute for a tube amp - I would rather use a cheap tube amp with a bunch of pedals and a few speakers. But that's me (and people i work with).
For the price of the Helix you can buy a small amp and a dozen pre-amp and effect pedals. Or something like an AMT pre (3 channels), a small tube power amp (like the Mooer one) and a couple of speakers. I just bought a rack-mounted tube pre from a company called R&R (6 channels, 5 tubes, 1 rack space, multiple outs inc direct with emulation, ~450$). Liked it so much I bought one for home too. Use that (or an AMT SS11B/A (~300$)) into a 2Notes speaker sim (I use the Torpedo CAB at home) and you will never need another emulator for guitar in your life time. Those preamps are on youtube check out these
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lgf_gaquns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k6QIAWljWM

When I mentioned preamps, its was something like those and there are many others, SS or tube. Some are alot more, some are a part of a system (like Synergy) which you can expand as you go. You plug them into a line in on your IO, on a track with a speaker sim (like the Wall of Sound from 2Notes) and Bob is your uncle (do you have an uncle called Bob?)
The Yamaha THR10C is another emulator so has all the advantages/dis-advantages of the digital solutions mentioned. I much prefer the tube pre route - and you don't have to mic. Distortion pedals sound best into them too (like your Boss) as they are designed for the amp front-end. Compressors as required. We sometimes (more on bass) run an instrument pre into a TUBE compressor on a light setting (with an output transformer) to give it some of the power-amp feel.
Just my .002$ Happy to discuss more
NICE!!! there are a lot of gems I have never heard of here. I had no idea Wall of Sound existed! I am downloading it now. So just to be sure I understand (at least in a basic way)...going from guitar pedals>tube pre>interface>wall of sound (or other virtual cabinet/speaker sim plugin) could be a decent signal chain?

In the meantime (before winning the lottery to buy myself a proper guitar rig lol), would it be a bad idea to put Wall of Sound speaker emulator after my THR10C (with minimal processing via the THR)? I know the THR is an amp sim itself, so I'm not sure there...but I would love to be able to open up some speaker options with something like that Wall of Sound, yet keep the only tube-like distortion I have (THR). Let me know your thoughts.
Old 23rd March 2020 | Show parent
  #34
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicahJude View Post
NICE!!! there are a lot of gems I have never heard of here. I had no idea Wall of Sound existed! I am downloading it now. So just to be sure I understand (at least in a basic way)...going from guitar pedals>tube pre>interface>wall of sound (or other virtual cabinet/speaker sim plugin) could be a decent signal chain?

In the meantime (before winning the lottery to buy myself a proper guitar rig lol), would it be a bad idea to put Wall of Sound speaker emulator after my THR10C (with minimal processing via the THR)? I know the THR is an amp sim itself, so I'm not sure there...but I would love to be able to open up some speaker options with something like that Wall of Sound, yet keep the only tube-like distortion I have (THR). Let me know your thoughts.
Yes, it will get you much closer to an "amp" tone
If you can disable the speaker simulation in the THR and use WoS instead you will get a better tone, IMHO at least.
And AMT ss11B is not very expensive at all.
Old 23rd March 2020 | Show parent
  #35
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Yes, it will get you much closer to an "amp" tone
If you can disable the speaker simulation in the THR and use WoS instead you will get a better tone, IMHO at least.
And AMT ss11B is not very expensive at all.
Ok cool, I know the THR has a clean mode so I'll investigate that further. Hey, have you tried the plugin version of the ss11b???

https://mercuriall.com/cms/details_ss-11x

HW vs Plugin comparison (pretty damn close to my ears): https://youtu.be/0Z_DEphWnrw

My hunch is that you're not going to love it due to some distortion dynamic response differences lol, but for $40...may be worth a try no? Let me know your thoughts!
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