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Old 4th July 2007
  #31
Gear Nut
 
solo-act's Avatar
 

What the heck, I'll post it again...
Spend a week with a Fractal Audio Axe-FX. If you haven't, find a way to and THEN comment on whether you think the unit is a decent tool. For what I do, the dynamics, expression, tones and versatility are fantastic.

Just a few clips/patches I put together with it.....all played with the wrong guitar BTW. Forgive the mediocre recording.....its coax out of the unit into a digi 002 carelessly tossed into a G5 with PTLE no preamps or plugins, just the naked unit direct with mediocre gear.
3 are bridge humbucker on strat style guitar and one is the neck single coil. Backing tracks are mono, guitar in stereo.
David Bowie - one guitar running through parallel rigs in the unit. Clip breaks down the sounds and brings them together.
CCR
Loggins & Messina
Van Morrison
Old 4th July 2007
  #32
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by solo-act View Post
What the heck, I'll post it again...
Spend a week with a Fractal Audio Axe-FX. If you haven't, find a way to and THEN comment on whether you think the unit is a decent tool. For what I do, the dynamics, expression, tones and versatility are fantastic.

Just a few clips/patches I put together with it.....all played with the wrong guitar BTW. Forgive the mediocre recording.....its coax out of the unit into a digi 002 carelessly tossed into a G5 with PTLE no preamps or plugins, just the naked unit direct with mediocre gear.
3 are bridge humbucker on strat style guitar and one is the neck single coil. Backing tracks are mono, guitar in stereo.
David Bowie - one guitar running through parallel rigs in the unit. Clip breaks down the sounds and brings them together.
CCR
Loggins & Messina
Van Morrison
How many will come and say they can hear the digital artifacts?

I think that sounds great. The sound breaks up just like it should. Enjoy!
Old 4th July 2007
  #33
Lives for gear
 
DeathMonkey's Avatar
 

The cleaner sounds sound good, but I ain't crazy about that Bowie clip. I think a large part of it for a lot of player, tho, is how they feel when you're playing. I liked the sounds of my Vetta II, I just hated playing it.
Old 5th July 2007
  #34
Gear Nut
 
MixingStick's Avatar
 

I am sure it would be fun to play with.......just like most other modeling amps. But, honestly i just didn't like most of the tones I heard. Sort of like when the Johnson milennia (or millenium?) came out. At first I was sort of impressed, but after a couple of days of messing around with it....Blah

For $1800??? Sorry. I got my entire Mesa Tremoverb head/4-12 for that......No comparison.
Old 5th July 2007
  #35
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by solo-act View Post
What the heck, I'll post it again...
Spend a week with a Fractal Audio Axe-FX. If you haven't, find a way to and THEN comment on whether you think the unit is a decent tool. For what I do, the dynamics, expression, tones and versatility are fantastic.

Just a few clips/patches I put together with it.....all played with the wrong guitar BTW. Forgive the mediocre recording.....its coax out of the unit into a digi 002 carelessly tossed into a G5 with PTLE no preamps or plugins, just the naked unit direct with mediocre gear.
3 are bridge humbucker on strat style guitar and one is the neck single coil. Backing tracks are mono, guitar in stereo.
David Bowie - one guitar running through parallel rigs in the unit. Clip breaks down the sounds and brings them together.
CCR
Loggins & Messina
Van Morrison
i could see the utility for $500....it would have it's place in a demo studio.

some of these clips are better than the ones at the site.

for $1800 i will gladly take the real thing. tube amps, analog pedals.

and i agree with an above post which said, more or less, that it is not just what the recording sounds like and if it can fool a listener into thinking that what they are hearing is not a modeller...it is what it feels like when you are playing....

good marketing attempt tho.
Old 5th July 2007
  #36
It might be a little better than a Pod, but, to me, the whole direct recording process loses personality. Even with all of the room emulations, it sounds like everyone's playing in the same 'non-space'. I wonder what it would sound like through an amp/speaker/microphone (or would that defeat its purpose?).
Old 5th July 2007
  #37
Gear Maniac
 
Fretbored's Avatar
 

I can smell an amp emulator a mile away. I've found a way to give a processor more of a real tube amp sound and guess what...it involves real tubes. Up the neck, direct jumps out every time-no natural tube compression. So I wonder, what's the point. $1800 gets you into a nice amp.
Old 5th July 2007
  #38
Lives for gear
 
tiny333's Avatar
 

Angry yuck

yuck looks awful
Old 5th July 2007
  #39
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwhitney View Post
It might be a little better than a Pod, but, to me, the whole direct recording process loses personality. Even with all of the room emulations, it sounds like everyone's playing in the same 'non-space'. I wonder what it would sound like through an amp/speaker/microphone (or would that defeat its purpose?).
i can see the convenience angle with this whole type of device.....but for me, even if you get a decent recording the actual playing is no fun. i need a real amp in a real room moving real air in front of a real mic. everything else is just not as fun.
Old 6th July 2007
  #40
Gear Nut
 
solo-act's Avatar
 

Not really trying to market the unit, just encouraging people to reserve judgment until they've spent some time with one....but I guess that ain't gonna happen around here.

As I said before, if I had a library of tube amps, cabinets, mics, in a great recording room, I'd rather use those for recording, but I gig live. I understand the tube purist mentality. The tones of the tube amps I've used live the last 4 years (Fuchs combo and Suhr Badger) have been great and I've enjoyed them for hundreds of gigs. Also enjoyed several nice pedals (3 BJF, an eternity, a tim pedal, RMC 3 etc..). However......I get the SAME feel and a solid dynamic tone that fits great in the live mix, but without the limitations of a singular amp platform in the live setting. The versatility is far more useful for performing a wide variety of covers than the limitations of a single amp. Not to mention with the feel it just as much fun to play live.

It's not possible to get the tones of the clips I posted in a LIVE setting with a single tube amp without turning a single knob. Might sound nuts, but that's exactly what I need for what I do because I'm singing & working the crowd while playing. There's literally ZERO time for dialing gain structures, EQ, pedals etc to try to get the tone of the next song. Once again, spend a week with one, then post a comment/review. That's what the original poster wanted anyway.
Old 6th July 2007
  #41
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Absolute's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by True North View Post
but I find that a lot of the 'tone' from a guitar and amp also comes from the way the player plays.

Yeah.. this is the most repeated statement in the biz and its completely incorrect

The Tone comes from the guitar and the amp. The style and skill comes from the player

Pop in Van Halen's Aint Talkin bout Love and then Summer Nights and please tell me those are not the most different tones you can possibly hear from an amp. Eddies finger doesnt change the tone so it sounds completely different. He changes guitars, pickups, amp settings etc. If the tone came from his fingers..he wouldnt need to change anything to get that different tone

You cant play Aint talkin bout love from a Fender and hope to sound anything like the original tone. Anyone who says they sound the same on any amp simply cannot hear. Your fingers cannot change the characteristics of preamp stages, powertubes, various cabinets, guitar pickups, and microphones. Lets not confuse a persons style with the signal path

So lets put this myth to rest. The greatest guitar players in history own multiple amps and guitars so they can change their tone from song to song. If the tone came from them they would only need 1 guitar and amp
Old 6th July 2007
  #42
Gear Nut
 
solo-act's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute View Post
Yeah.. this is the most repeated statement in the biz and its completely incorrect

The Tone comes from the guitar and the amp. The style and skill comes from the player

Pop in Van Halen's Aint Talkin bout Love and then Summer Nights and please tell me those are not the most different tones you can possibly hear from an amp. Eddies finger doesnt change the tone so it sounds completely different. He changes guitars, pickups, amp settings etc. If the tone came from his fingers..he wouldnt need to change anything to get that different tone

You cant play Aint talkin bout love from a Fender and hope to sound anything like the original tone. Anyone who says they sound the same on any amp simply cannot hear. Your fingers cannot change the characteristics of preamp stages, powertubes, various cabinets, guitar pickups, and microphones. Lets not confuse a persons style with the signal path

So lets put this myth to rest. The greatest guitar players in history own multiple amps and guitars so they can change their tone from song to song. If the tone came from them they would only need 1 guitar and amp
+1
Lots of aficionados think that expression IS the tone....or is a majority of the tone. They think that people "sound" the same regardless of the axe/rig. They seem to be clueless that what they're hearing is expression and style -- THAT'S what sounds the same regardless of the axe or rig. What I don't get is how people make this huge leap and say that is what "tone" is.......I can see direct finger picking and pick techique affecting tone, but to say a huge part of the tone comes from the expression/technique of the player???.......never made sense to me either. What you said makes perfect sense which is why I use the Axe-FX. The rigs I've dialed are so different you have to change your style to match the feel of the original song....but the tone....that comes from the rig, and have a larger arsenal of tone has been a lot of fun especially since the feel is so different for each rig I've dialed.
Old 6th July 2007
  #43
Lives for gear
on the waiting list. from comments and clips i've heard this ain't no pod.
Old 6th July 2007
  #44
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eligit View Post
i can see the convenience angle with this whole type of device.....but for me, even if you get a decent recording the actual playing is no fun. i need a real amp in a real room moving real air in front of a real mic. everything else is just not as fun.
The thing is.............you CAN plug it into an amp and speakers! How about that!

I do agree with the sentiment that playing direct robs the interaction of the guitar and speakers. That why when I record with direct modeling, I have guitar speakers cranked to the same level thzat I would have a tube amp at. Nothings missing at that point.

I really belive that everyone who has had problem with the "feel" of a modeler, has simply not played one loud enough. It happens because you can get a "loud" tone at low volume. You cannot however get "loud" responce at low volume.
Old 6th July 2007
  #45
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd24 View Post
The thing is.............you CAN plug it into an amp and speakers! How about that!

I do agree with the sentiment that playing direct robs the interaction of the guitar and speakers. That why when I record with direct modeling, I have guitar speakers cranked to the same level thzat I would have a tube amp at. Nothings missing at that point.

I really belive that everyone who has had problem with the "feel" of a modeler, has simply not played one loud enough. It happens because you can get a "loud" tone at low volume. You cannot however get "loud" responce at low volume.
yeah....i've tried that with modelers....never enjoyed it no matter how loud i turned it up. that's another problem....with analog/tube sounds they change as you crank things...with digital/solid state what it sounds like at 3 is the same as 7 (unless you push the speaker too hard which sounds bad).

as far as the point of this modeler being sold above....there is a tipping point...in other words, if you need 2 dozen totally different sounds at your fingertips at all times....i guess this kind of thing is the only way to go.....i just never find myself in that position and would rather have 2-5 really satisfying tube/analog sounds that are related than 2 dozen digital simulations. that's just for the kind of stuff i end up doing tho.

i was just playing a fender cyber twin last week and no matter how loud you crank it....it just sounds and feels fake and bad, like you could plug any kind of guitar into it and you get the same fake simulated noise gated vibe.
Old 6th July 2007
  #46
Gear Nut
 
solo-act's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eligit View Post
.......with analog/tube sounds they change as you crank things......i was just playing a fender cyber twin last week and no matter how loud you crank it....it just sounds and feels fake and bad, like you could plug any kind of guitar into it and you get the same fake simulated noise gated vibe.
That's why I never bought a modeler before. What's interesting about the Axe-FX is every miniscule change on volume pot and every dynamic nuance in your fingers results in tonal and dynamic changes on the output. You can pull dozens of different characters out of one patch depending on where your gtr volume pot is and what you're doing with your hands.... IF you've dialed the unit to respond that way. Each pickup and guitar sounds distinctly different. Everyone who hasn't spent hands on time with one has no clue that the unit is capable of those things and dismiss it based on experience with other modellers....big mistake.
As far as real world interaction..... a cranked cab with speakers moving air that slams into the body of the electric..... you can do that a few different ways with the axe-fx because you have the choice of replacing amp/cab sims with real world equivalents and running the unit in any configuration you want----effects only in a loop, virtual amps with real cabinets, virtual amps/real preamp with virtual cabs....I'm sure there's more.
Personally, I don't miss the cone/air/gtr interaction much. About 1/2 my gigs are lower volume & I couldn't crank if I wanted to. But most times I just lay the guitar closer to the floor monitor or lift it to the main and it goes into singing sustain. I still have choices though, I can dedicate the other half of the monitor amp and another speaker to just the axe-fx and get very specific interaction. But since I can dial how hot the mastervolume/drive run on any amp, and I can dial the depth(amount of spkr interaction), any patch that needs a lot more interaction and sustain has it without needing a cranked cab --since I do some gigs at low volumes this really helps-- But for the most part, all it takes is moving closer to a monitor to take interaction/feedback over the top.

If anything, the unit is extra sensitive to playing and expression from your hands...if you've dialed it that way. If you've dialed a tighter/stiffer/more dynamic patch....and tonight you're running short on finesse, there's nowhere to hide. But you can dial it the other way into greasy/squishy/saturated land and have plenty of places to hide sloppy playing. Many things about it are very real world....which frustrates some users. Dial it wrong, or just slightly off of "right" and its no different than doing the same in the real world. Dial it right, and you get the dynamics, interaction and tonal magic that you need live.....which is my only reference. I'll be interested to hear what a professional studio has to say when they try one out.
Old 6th July 2007
  #47
Lives for gear
 

you must be selling this thing. if not.....they should give you a cut.

personally....i have zero need for any digital modelling in my playing.

also i thought live was the main app for this thing?

a real studio would hopefully always try for the real thing first since there is no need for dozens of instant access tones and you can simply get the right amp/pedal combo for each track/layer and do it the right way. i guess for a pocket/demo studio tho this modeller could be useful and would hopefully beat out their other modellers.
Old 6th July 2007
  #48
Lives for gear
 

Just get a real amp and stop bitchin....
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