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Old 28th October 2019
Lives for gear

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
True. "your conclusion is the only correct one" perhaps then?
Not mine per se. But the listener. So this applies to us all. So for you and your choices, studio, mixes, etc.. your opinion on sonics should be the correct one for you. I really hope I did not come across as if my opinion was the right one for everyone.

That said, when someone hears something differently than I do, I really like to investigate to see what I might be not pin-pointing on. (this is why I even had that test). Hopefully others do that as well, instead of just saying I'm crazy if I make a claim about something I heard. Test it out now focusing on what I said I heard and see if you then hear something to back my opinions, etc.. I do that for others.

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I'm talking about whatever's currently for sale - but holds true for the older ones too. They're massively more expensive new than the equivalent Avid interfaces, and whilst one might argue they're "better", you pay a lot more for a little bit better. If money is no object, I suppose that's ok!

Well, no-one could accuse you of not putting your money where your mouth is!

Obviously the Avids do 80 full io in 5 units too.....
LOL, yea and it hurt when I did it too. lol But you always snap back.

The Avid interfaces, you are right, they do (and have done) equivalent I/O possibilities. Another long story there, but if I went Avid, I'd only ever go with the MTRX. But that thing had a couple low level strikes against it for me (even though it is a AWESOME piece). (no XLR, etc..) nothing that important.

Man - for now, sticking with what I got as far as conversion. But I was on the fence about it, so those MTRX's are good pieces for sure. I bet the fluidity that it works with PT is just amazing and zero latency. Definitely would like it for that.

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Err - I wouldn't go speculating about things I don't know! Besides, I don't think ANY studio is "big business". They're all still small businesses really.

I didn't say they were. I just said it's far from a universal thought that modern apogees "sound like cardboard".
Very true. Just 5mil is indeed a lot to do in one swoop. I'd say they have investors for sure, which puts them in a category of possibly (just possibly) doing as I said for reasons I said.

But, very possibly not as well.

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
There's a massive disconnect here - you're mixing on an 80io prism rig and dealing with amateurs....?!
Yea, I don't see the disconnect. I will work with anyone that doesn't haggle my prices and whom I like their energy. (those two are a must). And just so has it, some of these folks are great in every aspect except that pseudo clipping one. lol

You know, one of my biggest clients whom I will not mention names, but one of the huge video game companies, are the worse to deal with. These "amateurs" are actually pleasant, creative. etc... As long as someone just pays without the price match Joe blow down the block thing, I am happy with them. I've narrowed down to only those types in my life.

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
PS - so for every project, which might be 80 channels, you print a stem through your console (assume you're using a console or summing amp with 80ins?!)? How long does that take?!
I rarely, if ever use all 80 channels. Which is why I have 80, cause I want more than I usually use. That said, the usual session IDK, tops off at around anywhere between 50-70 channels for me and my style/approach. Of course pending on genre, artist, etc.. I swear I could easily get by on 64. So the 80 is for the overkill comfort zone. (for me).

So you caught me cutting a corner dude !! lol what I say to never do. haha. But let me explain - The way I do them linear wav file back ups is more like if you got the old Tapes from a old song. I bounce/export the tracks all ITB with all ITB processing/plugs embedded in them. This is a very adequate back up IMO, but the person *will indeed have to mix it through a console again* to get the exact flav. But all my automation is done ITB, I use the console and outboard gear in a good way that you can tell/hear, but due to my exact approach, you will get about 90% of the mix from my ITB exports. I of course take detailed notes and instructions and save them in the wav file folder of all outboard and console settings. But if this is ever gonna happen, they would use a different approach IMO anyway. So starting with my ITB files might even be preferred.

Anyway, because if I didn't do it that way, the backup process could be a nightmare long time. And maybe not what you really want in the end. Better to start a step back, to maybe use a different console, stay ITB, use different outboard, etc..

I'd say doing it this way on average it takes me around 3-5hrs to completely back up each of my songs. Pending on track count and song length and other details/issues popping up.

(P.S. My recording/tracking approach also has a lot (about 80%) of the outboard used printed in the session. Its just how I do it. So the backup files get that too ! But obviously has zero of the final console pass)

If I did it the way you were saying (which I admit is really the best way to mimic it exactly) my god, IDK, might take a full day to back up ? LOL Seriously.

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Again - only if you've clipped the stems at the mix point I suppose. Otherwise its 24b files with a bunch of 00s padding it out.

A 24b file that hasn't been clipped can ALWAYS be converted to a 32b float file at some point in the future - whatever mystical processes might be invented. After all - that's how you created your 32b files in the first place - you captured your stem through your 24bit converter and stored it as a 32b file.

So (again, assuming no f-ups - and I'm assuming if you're invested enough to run 80 channels of prism, you're a bit above an amateur!) you're really NOT future proofing yourself any more than storing at the same sample rate/24bit. Sorry!

I suppose a more sensible thing to do would be to capture all mix passes at 24/96 to a separate, synced up rig. That WOULD be more future proofed. But that's more expensive still!
You know, you bring up a excellent point here. Didn't think of that. A 24b file can always be converted to 32bf if that weird reason ever approached us. I know why I didn't think of that before, its because I thought 32bf was more than what it is (something happening to it also within the DAW).

Anyway man, very good point !

And your last point/idea is spot on. That'd be dope ! I do have 2 rigs. But the 2nd one wouldn't be suffice for that exact task quite yet. (I/O inferiorities, conversion, patch bay not set up for that, etc..) But that would be ideal ! I don't think they would need to be sync'ed. cause one is just capturing linear files. So in theory, tempo, time, means nothing to it.

I tell you though, I'm a pretty picky dude, and I feel fine with the ITB file backups. It is really a good starting point for a new mix IMO. Almost preferred. It would be easy to match the original exactly with a little work if you wanted that, or go in a another direction (to improve it). Etc..