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Old 28th October 2019
  #66
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Originally Posted by Infa View Post
lol Very true. But the word "correct" is ok to use when dealing with some debate with lets say the 32bf we just went through. But its very hard to use (if not even not proper) when dealing with art/sound opinions.
True. "your conclusion is the only correct one" perhaps then?

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I guess I forgot to mention I feel the new Prisms are not as good as the old ADA-8XR. Since you were comparing 8 channels, I was thinking maybe you were comparing a newer device ? In that case I'd agree.
I'm talking about whatever's currently for sale - but holds true for the older ones too. They're massively more expensive new than the equivalent Avid interfaces, and whilst one might argue they're "better", you pay a lot more for a little bit better. If money is no object, I suppose that's ok!

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I got 5 ADA-8XR's for the 80 outs I need (and the In's I need to). I paid approx $5,600 max for each one. Some even cheaper, each came with 16ch. 3 of them I got from my boy Ryan at Vintage King. Most came with I/O config I didn't want, but I sold the ones I didn't need and copped the ones I did. I needed to buy 7 total over time to pull this off then sell the 2 other chassis with the unneeded cards. I know of no other converter with the same quality that hooks directly to HDX with the quality it has AND has so easily swappable I/O which allows me to only need 5 units to cover both In's I need and 80 Outs. (cause I never need 80 Outs while simultaneously needing my In's. When I need IN's then I only need 2 OUTS, when I need the 80 OUTS [for mix] I do not need any IN's). So I do a swapping trick for mix time). Its so simple the way they designed it. It a very fast easy swap. Oh and I calculated it all out and nothing was going to give me the combination of quality nor the price point per channel while hooking directly up to HDX AND being a good channel swappable design (which is what caused for only needing 5 units to cover it.)
Well, no-one could accuse you of not putting your money where your mouth is!

Obviously the Avids do 80 full io in 5 units too.....

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I absolutely despise Madi or DB25 protocol/cable connector for analog paths (they are fine for digital) but will never use them for analog, so those units were out. (plus remember the quality opinion I have, that comes first). Bottom line, Prism was best bet for me (or IMO anyone using HDX that needs the highest quality of multiple channels beyond 8+).
Sonically, I'm not sure there's an argument to make there - it's just wires, made correctly there's nothing really any different between that and point to point wiring - but reliability wise, especially if you're moving things around you may have a point.

Agreed, I love the space they save (which is also the ONLY reason companies like to use them too) - But I have a pretty involved patch-bay for all my set up and the cable guy I use (ha, cable guy, no not Jim Carrey, LOL) that custom makes most of LA's big studio patch bays and much more famous ones worldwide back in the 80's can make them all just fine with no DB25. They do make sense for space, but IMO not for quality in analog paths (again, just my opinion, don't really wanna open this debate). He also doesn't like the originally designed Printer connector for analog either. Again, just opinions. Though he had actual technical good points why he feels they are inferior for analog.

Also the Mogami cable I use (again, tested in blind testing and felt sounded best, even better than some $400 cables ! lol no joke) 3173 is hard to fit in them little connectors anyway. But can be done, I got several for my digital side. Thats mostly DB25.



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Do you think they really did run shootouts ? Now a days that's not common practice for a large place. They say they do, but what drives the decision is the deal Apogee gives them for the advertisement. (I bet).

Then they tell you they test to make their customers feel better and also probably part of the deal Apogee wanted to help validate the new products some more.

That said, being just my opinion of big business practice, maybe they did as you said. And if so it goes to show you how opinions are. And I support that. OR they simply didn't have a ADA-8XR in the test. LOL Which I bet is the case, its old, unsupported soon, etc.. Plus tracking down used ones like I did wouldn't be part of their wisest practice just for higher quality.
Err - I wouldn't go speculating about things I don't know! Besides, I don't think ANY studio is "big business". They're all still small businesses really.

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So just personally, I still don't think their opinions are any better or wiser than mine, for me. Maybe for them.
I didn't say they were. I just said it's far from a universal thought that modern apogees "sound like cardboard".


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+1,000 !!

Your right and I do request that always. They fix the prob next time, surely. But it still happens sometimes here and there. Anyway good to know we cleared this up. I admit what I think is a good safety net might not be worth it for others. But I am glad we both see my minuscule and avoidable point. lol - So we can leave it at that.
There's a massive disconnect here - you're mixing on an 80io prism rig and dealing with amateurs....?!

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The other thing that's makes me feel more comfortable about it is this - I also back all my sessions up 2 different ways. 1 is the normal manually backing up the session as its entire session folder, etc.. But the other is a 10,000+ year to infinity future proof back up - I bounce every track down as a linear .wav file with all plugins/processing, etc.. So the song could be opened and sound the same (for the most part) even if one day Pro Tools/Daws as we know them now is no more. But .wav playback will last forever.
That's fair enough - although see comment above re amateurs, is this really projects that are going to need that? I print stems for everything, and very detailed stems too - not every track, but minimal groups - so I figure on the offchance one of my lesser products gets the remix treatment 40 years from now, I'm probably covered...

PS - so for every project, which might be 80 channels, you print a stem through your console (assume you're using a console or summing amp with 80ins?!)? How long does that take?!

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So to have those files with the 32bf storage applied to them might one day pay off for reasons I/we may not be thinking about now... Just some added insurance. Anything - just throwing this out there as one small example, but if some new invention comes out decades from now and it can do something we are not thinking about now (so lets just not bother to debate it cause its something our brains can not wrap around currently) to your old files IF and only IF those files are 32bf. Something along those lines.

Why not do it then (for me personally). Future proof, plus my immediate benefits which are admittedly small and avoidable.
Again - only if you've clipped the stems at the mix point I suppose. Otherwise its 24b files with a bunch of 00s padding it out.

A 24b file that hasn't been clipped can ALWAYS be converted to a 32b float file at some point in the future - whatever mystical processes might be invented. After all - that's how you created your 32b files in the first place - you captured your stem through your 24bit converter and stored it as a 32b file.

So (again, assuming no f-ups - and I'm assuming if you're invested enough to run 80 channels of prism, you're a bit above an amateur!) you're really NOT future proofing yourself any more than storing at the same sample rate/24bit. Sorry!

I suppose a more sensible thing to do would be to capture all mix passes at 24/96 to a separate, synced up rig. That WOULD be more future proofed. But that's more expensive still!