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Old 27th October 2019
Lives for gear

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Well, it's just maths, so I'm not sure if you "invent" or "discover" it.
Right. Invent might be bad word. Everything in this universe is math, even things that someone thinks are not math, are math in areas they do not recognize. Math is literally everything.

But, it takes someone to implement that math into something like this, (formula to something useful) and then after that, implement that useful thing into a device to harness the usefulness. So I was curious who was responsible for taking the formula and implementing it into something like we now see. Obviously it happened one day or Conversion would have been born from day one with 32bf. So "implementation" happened somewhere. Who is that masked man ? LOL

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Right. I have to say, in the "real world" I never see people sweating about their conversion like I do on here...we just get on with it!

I wouldn't deny Prism etc are amazing - however, you spend a LOT of money to get something a little bit better.

Modern Apogees are great. I don't know what your issue is, but the biggest studio in the world recently ($5m, completed a couple of years ago) chose to equip all their rooms with Symphony IIs. I regularly use an original Symphony, as well as the Ensemble TB in our writing room. They don't sound like "cardboard"; no converter sounds like "cardboard". It's small differences, not "night and day"; and the newer converters are great boxes.

I've used the 16X too, as well as the original AD8000s. They're all good. If they all ranked badly in your test, something was off - it's as simple as that.
Yea, I definitely know where you are coming from. I been over this a trillion times with folks. Yes bro, you just met a overly picky person. I get teased all the time by my friends. Just who I am. And I love the results being picky about life gets me. Picky about health, foods I eat, exercise, quality of products I buy, OVERLY picky about looks and women I date, and extremely picky about the things I decide to claim my passion. Its just me man. Go ahead and make fun of me for it, I get it all the time from my slacker friends. lol So I am used to it.

Anyway that said. Prism is not much more if you think about dollar per channel. Its less than the JCF Latte or Antelope Eclipse I got.

You are right, honestly its always small differences, not night and day, BUT that small difference was *going in a direction* of "cardboard" is the way I should have worded it. There were others there too, double blind testing so we couldn't influence each other in anyway. Our results were not 100% equal or identical, but everyone did rank the Symphony and Ensemble lowest. All with the same feeling. Loss of depth. It was a colleague of mine that coined the "cardboard" phrase because of that. I am actually stealing his word, cause it was the best way to describe the inferiority. (even if small like you did point out).

There was nothing wrong with the test, we are pretty meticulous when making tests, variable free, totally fair, etc.. - modern Apogee just aint as good as you think. Blind test it all day against either of them 3 pieces I mentioned above, you'll see.

Apollo was better, even old 16X Apogee AND Rosetta was better. I was truly as surprised as you sound you are too. Trust me. Cause my goal was to buy them ! I came from Apogee. I wanted to buy the new Apogees. Tried to make excuses to buy them. But in my gut I wanted to make sure from testing. Ran the tests and tried to deny it for a while. Then I thought... man, I spent a lot on these tests - time and money.. So shouldn't I let the test do what its suppose to for me, and I should buy the winner. (which was the ADA-8XR). So I did. A year or so later after saving some money back up I then went and got the JCF Latte and Antelope Eclipse too cause they ranked highest in a few instruments, but not overall. So they were like the "runners up" in a sense.

I will say this, this was so many years ago that it was the first editions of the Symphony and Ensemble. So if they got better, maybe I am off base for my remark. But just the way Apogee starting looking, and releasing stuff, bad taste in my mouth. They went the Toys R Us route. Making kids toys is the vibe and energy I feel. The company just isn't the same. Several people left, replaced by marketing tactics types, etc.. I don't think they make things as good as they used to, plain and simple.

I'm tripping out right now how your not freaking out over me more for saying Lavry Gold and Weiss was in the test and didn't win. haha. They didn't dude. To me both them units sound great, BUT they change the audio to sound great. Lavry kinda hypes the low mid. Sounds swollen/thicker compared to source. Weiss has a roll off up top somewhere (people mistake this for "warmth") Now this might be exactly why some would like it. But I am not into *conversion* that hype in or scoop out. I liked the ADA-8XR because nothing changed frequency wise. Nothing at all changed except it somehow did something to the source that made it sound more honest ? Lack of better word ? IDK ? And whatever that is, is undeniable amongst 4 colleagues. I tried (not in the test though) several other known "vanilla" converters, and Prism has something beyond Vanilla, its like Vanilla in the right parts, but gives you a better translation of your source than any other converter I've heard, so its not vanilla there, you HEAR that deeper more honest translation. Just a very nice converter and it does D to D on a per channel basis simultaneously, different sample rates per channel simultaneously if wanted, and DSD if wanted AND its 16 channel modular using all XLR, which is very important to me (not a DB25 fan and try to avoid it when possible). So IMO for the price, that aint bad.

To me, just to be honest and blunt, I don't care what 30mil dollar places do, most of the bigger pro places/industries make decisions based on bang for buck and not totality. Which I understand, so I am not bashing them. My point is using them as examples doesn't make any point to me that the conversion they chose is best.. All it means to me is I would not record there. lol

I really don't follow "big box store" mottos. I'm more: the few, narrow path, boutiquey, esentric type. But even more important than that, I use testing to make my decisions. I feel its the most fair to me personally if it me that will be using it. Know what I mean ?

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I don't love sites like Soundbetter. Lots of people desperate for work, trying to one up each other at cheaper and cheaper prices. like Fivrr Pro. I don't need the work, so I don't have anything to do with it.

But it's kind of what you're doing here - you're entrenched and arguing your position for something being "better" without actually understanding why.
Totally feel you. I am the same way. I turn work down all the time if I don't get minimally my $60 hr. So I am 100% on your side on this one. And frankly I don't even like to work with or for people anyway. Takes me away from my personal projects... so again, I feel ya. Isn't that something I said in the beginning of the thread ? I hate working for price match clowns. I won't do it.

But I just accidentally I guess came across a few that will make it worth my while and I've been helping them out on SB,... so I'm ok with it. Gotta weed through the BS there. And some cool folks eventually come across it.

Also, I sub-contract from SB sometimes too, so I am the buyer in those cases ! All in all, my experiences have been ok there and you know how picky I am.

In all these instances, I've seen files passed to me that have the ol' classic plugin push accidentally pass the 0.0db realm.

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
WHAT is like a safety net? WHAT exactly benefit are you getting? You've COMPLETELY misunderstood what 32b fp storage is (not to an extent - it doesn't do ANYTHING of what you thought it did), so how is it helping you? what part of your misunderstanding are you still clinging to?!
I thought we just cleared this up ? lol You even confirmed it. Please let me know if this was also misunderstood. If a track has a plugin (or multiple plugin chain) process on that track and the processing you do raises the *tracks* volume enough past the 0.0db, and that track gets exported/bounced with said processing on it, if both sessions had been in/are in 32bf, then that track/file is still ok. Technically never clipped.

If this is true, then I like that safety net is what I am saying. Especially for the unnoticeable cons recording at 32bf gives me.

Now, if this isn't the case - lol Then damn, I misunderstood you and Matt yet again ! haha and please let me know.