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Old 17th September 2019
Lives for gear
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Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I understand - and agree with a lot of it.

The only thing I’ll say is that music, unlike having an opinion on (say) science or something else that’s factual (ie you can’t deny a given scientific phenomenon and have any weight to your opinion unless you really understand it and can argue your point!), music is largely taste. It’s fine to argue vehemently that you just like something and don’t like other things, even if you don’t understand them. Understanding - even a basic understanding - simply isn’t necessary - you listen, you get a feeling of enjoyment or not, and you listen to another piece.

The concept “if you only understood music better, you’d enjoy this song more” isn’t really a valid line of reasoning. The onus isn’t on the listener - they can be totally passive if they like. The onus is on the creator who, if they have ideas of complexity and/or that are challenging, to translate that to the listener.

Sting was relatively good at that - even if you don’t like his music, he managed to make some fairly complex ideas work in a pop context - eg odd time signatures for “7 days” and “I hung my head” (which also works as a song in 4/4 as Johnny Cash proved).

Or as I said you simply write music for the already enlightened, which will mostly be other musos which is perfectly valid too!
Well this is all true. People can and will do whatever they want. I am just speaking from the perspective of what's good for music to progress as a subject over what's good for individual people or even masses of people. Then again, since when do humans know what's good for them in any subject? Hahah. Seriously though, not saying that's right or wrong, but that's what matters to me. To the next person, maybe people matter more.

I just know that I would certainly rather find ways to allow people to be exposed to more of a variety of music and concepts and hope this spreads awareness and try to do something with conviction than try to create what fits what I think people will like, which often backfires anyway. Packaging the prior in a way that people can appreciate is a different story and I think this maybe the key.

Not to mention, I may be a bad judge of guessing what people will like. Often what one think people will like, they don't. And what one thinks they won't like (but does regardless) they end up liking. I don't know if anyone can completely predict the reaction of all people as a whole. I certainly can't. So I stick to what I am doing and it usually works out better than when I listen to musicians who are afraid of doing anything people might not like and go along with their ideas. Unless I am specifically hired for a certain type of gig of course, in which case I do what I am told and paid to do.

This maybe a digression, but I do feel that at least some audiences, even if they know nothing about music, can sort of sense when something is genuine over something that is pandering. I know we were not discussing pandering, but I think if musicians are not careful they can slip down that road and end up trapped endlessly being cabaret / bar / hotel / function musicians. I think I would rather not even do music than be condemned to that forever. It's fine to earn money on the way, but not as a whole lifetime goal. At least not for me personally. If there are people who are okay with that, great for them. I am happy they're doing alright...

Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
RNC is terrible in the sense of control over the sound, via knobs, connections and so on. But it is one of the most beautiful sounds I have heard in cheap hardware. The designer was able to achieve a massive frequency response up to maybe double rate or so, well above human hearing. Knobs are fiddly and they are awkward to place in racks.

For toms people have told me to use a figure of 8 in between two tom pairs to use less mics.... makes perfect sense to me.

EDIT: Steve Albini (yes, him), uses an RNC in the same way as his GML compressor, it's just a bit less elegant and more specific. If that gives you some idea... jeez! The limitation can actually be a benefit if you're not ready for a GML level of control range. They both still have "wrong" settings though so you have to be attentive to the machine.
Wow, really that bad? I thought it was considered pretty good (for the price)? Also, hahah, yeah, it does kind of spit in the face of OCD with not being a regular rack size.

The figure 8 idea could work. I guess it still depends how many channels I end up with. If it's 16 then I guess I can just do whatever I want freely. I made an offer on an ISA 828 even though I can't afford it (isn't that what folks on this board are supposed to do though, hahah), so that would be the 16 settled. I probably won't get it for the offer I made. Worth a shot though. That would smash all my requirements way beyond what I need. If I don't get it, I will probably go back to that Audient or maybe the Tascam if there's any info about it yet.

Simplicity could be a point. Sometimes I am not sure whether I would want more or less control being new to all this. I kinda can be a control freak though when it comes to music so I might relax more being able to manipulate every possible parameter ever. Then again that could hinder me. Who knows. I will probably just end up getting whatever is "the best I can" based on money.

Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
How about this facking guy:

Yeah, I wonder how all that is mic'd and what is running through what?!

Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
I was just telling some people I know about this. They were asking me a layman's question as a "pro" (haha.) Anyway I think that music is almost 100% subjective, and almost every opinion is valid.

Reaction/emotion is super complicated and varies with the stars, moon, crabs and wind.

You can lose the joy in this line of business. People just want to feel good.
I think I will leave out the crabs if you don't mind, hahah, but the rest sounds okay. And true it is easy to grow resentful and bitter in the music industry for sure! I just need to be mindful not to be lured in that direction myself. I suspect it is more of the case in some places than others though. I have stories I can tell you about how things are here, but I will refrain for obvious reasons. Hahah.

Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
There is some simple gain staging you need to do if you want to run your hardware hot. You can push levels, but you absolutely have to attenuate when you hit back at that ADC input to get the voltage low enough not to clip the converter (ouch!)

Pads are cheap, easy to find, and easy to build. Or you can just use a processor with an output volume as your last device pre ADC back into the computer.

If you have a good ADC/ DAC loop, the sonic signature is nearly inaudible with as many of 40 or more passes through the loop. Eric Valentine recently tested this in one of his incredible videos. It's been tested on obscure google search websites before that with even cheaper gear. And then there's the classic Monty Hall video that EVERYONE should watch.
Now this is the interesting stuff to me. So theoretically it should not really be any harm doing such passes then. Since I would never do that many! Just 1 or 2! That is assuming I don't just make it sound worse with the outboard gear, but in terms of the converter trips I guess it's not really an issue then?

I will search for the video you mentioned too.