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Old 20th August 2016
Lives for gear
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Originally Posted by Vesta View Post
KevWind, I'll choose to not respond to personal attacks. I think the readers of this thread will be better served if we remained on topic, if we're going to continue.
Good Idea, so stop implying people choose to pay more for Neumann mic's simply because they are succumbing to slick marketing or reputation . Which is in fact by implication a personal attack on their their ability to discern real value from hype. And lets be clear it was you who started with the innuendo and implying that those who disagreed with your position were being emotional, not rational, succumbing to marketing, etc.etc.etc. which is in fact simply a dishonest method of personal attack. I was simply being honest and directing my attack so again if you wish it to stop, try stopping your tactics.

If I understand you correctly in your post above, you're pointing out to the popularity of Neumann mics among professionals as proof of them being worth their high monetary value.
No apparently you do not understand. I was asking you a question and it was not rhetorical . Do you really believe they do so merely because of slick marketing?

It might be a supporting idea to help you build up a case, but that can't be a real argument. You can't appeal to popularity when you're discussing the value of a product. And you don't appeal to authority by bringing up the fact that "highly successful engineers, artists, and producers" are using that.
A straw man argument does not validate your position. , And you have it backwards , you are trying to build a case . I was asking you a question about what you believed was the reason those people used Neumann . I was not appealing to anything.

Whether the high prices and reputation came first or were a result of existing reputation is rather irrelevant in light of blind tests which place the mic in questions in the company of $300-500 microphones produced by other manufacturers.
Of course the fact that the reputation came first is relevant. It contradicts your assertion that reputation came from the marketing which is factually mistaken.You keep claiming such tests exist but in the only one you have provided the 87 was clearly superior.

Next, you're implying that my posts are an insult to the many great engineers who use Neumann mics and value them highly.
Yes your assertion that the mics are purchased simply because of marketing is in fact insulting.

Would it be insulting to the many women, for example, if I pointed out that buying Luis Vuitton handbags doesn't get them much more than a fancy brand name? Are they all falling prey to slick marketing? Well, let's ask one of them about how exactly her $10.000 bag betters a cheaper high-quality bag you could get in the mall. I'm guessing we'll hear similar arguments...
This could not be a more of a specious yet ludicrous argument, the two situations are not remotely analogous.

There may be a great feature of u87 that I don't know about which justifies its high price. Unless someone can open my eyes to that, I am left with its performance as I can audition in a test and the build quality, which I doubt is any better than that of the NT1-A, for example. The onus is on the Neumann fans to prove why it's such a special microphone deserving a special budget.
The feature is in sound and yes you should audition it . Doubting is not knowing and there is no "Onus" on people who choose a Neumann, this subject is not a debate about the burden of proof. You have made claims yet the only proof you offered disproves your claim.

This seems to me to be an entirely rational position and I find it curious as to why it's creating such a controversy on these pages.
Perhaps to you it seems rational . Here is another question do think it is rational to believe that given the amount posts that run counter to your assertions . That all those people are mistaken and you are correct?

Last edited by KevWind; 21st August 2016 at 01:43 PM..