If each mic is plugged on a preamp input, the directivity can be adjusted contiuously from omni to cardioid either ahead the recorder, by mixing both tracks, or after recording by digital post processing. Could be nice...

As I understand it, the technique did come about before wide cardioids, specifically the Neumann 143, had been developed. I've heard from others that Strauss was not a fan of the Schoeps sound.

When I asked Straus student Andreas Neubronner about the technique, specifically the coupling of the microphones, he told me that Straus usually only coupled the mics together in an effort to save channels on his mixer for large ensemble sessions, but that when recording chamber music he would use 4 mic preamp channels for the packet, as usual.

I use something similar, but in a different way:
cardioids in NOS position, with AB omnis just in front, closely spaced (around 20cm) and slightly angled outwards.
Photo is this setup (with SM81's and OM1's), however the omnis are a bit in front of the cards, which they should'nt -- but it is basically the same.
Omnis usually mixed in at around -8dB.

I have found this to create a very realistic sound image, both in terms of dynamics and stereo spread.
No noticable phase issues, and the detailed sharpness of the cards with the true bass bloom of the omnis gives a very pleasant sound.

I will upload a sample tomorrow, don't have audio on this pc here...

Straus used cardioid and omni 1:1, although one has to remark the output of the KM83 and KM84 were not 100% equal. If you would do that with your set-up, you would get quite some trouble with combfilter effects.

Can LDC's be used in this set up?

Conceptually I'm trying to pin down the reason for creating a Straus Packet out of 2 mics. Is it to save on the expense of buying a wide cardioid, or is there something inherent in the combination of the cardioid and omni that gives you the best of both ie the directionality of the former with the bass extension and ambience retrieval of the latter ? There would seem to be 2 parameters at play which the S.P aims at optimizing: frequency range and directionality. Your typical cardioid has less bass response below around 40Hz than a typical omni. Your typical cardioid has of course a more directional pickup than an omni. Thus the combination of the pair as S.P theoretically gives you a bigger bite at both of these apples...deeper bass and a wider pickup pattern. My question is, is that bite ultimately the same size as simply digging into the pocket and buying a wide cardioid ? In other words, would a CM3 give you the same advantages as a S.P.... and at a quite modest cost ?

I'm sure this has come up earlier in this old thread.
With two separate mics, and with enough channels, you have control over the omni/cardioid ratio. You don't just have a wide cardioid, but everything from omni to cardioid.
A good application would be a live recording when you set up without audience and don't know how much the audience will change the sound. It's easy to dial in a little more omni when it sounds too dry.

The reason was a very simple one. In that time when Straus used this technique there were no manufacturers making a small diaphragm wide cardioids. At least not Neumann. When Neumann came on the market with KM143 Straus used that microphone instead.

Any reason not to use an omni
combined with a hypercardiod
or fig 8 for even more possibilities?

Omni + figure-8 = MS

Not really MS as I was talking about 2 spaced pairs of omni +
forward facing hypercardiod or
fig 8. With Omni
+ fig8 it would be the equivalent
of the left channel's only of 2 spaced side-facing MS arrays with the ability to decode to spaced pairs of any mic pattern between omni and figure 8 (equivalent of 2 spaced Josephson C700A's).

Omni + cardioid only gives you a variable range from omni to cardioid pattern. Omni + figure of 8 gives you the whole range from omni-hypo-cardioid-hyper-figure of 8. Straus used km83/84 because that was his only way to create the wide cardioid until Neumann offered the Km143.

For best sound a single wide cardioid membrane solution is to be preferred over a combination of two units, since you are not bothered with comb-filter effects, obstructing the back vent port and double frontal reflection area which makes it physically a rectangular shaped large diaphragm microphone.

Gives you omni, wide, cardioid, hyper, fig-8, and anything in between.
Schoeps Polarflex comes to mind.

this seems to be stretching the 'Packet' (sandwich ?) concept a little far...see at 0:56 to 1:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttOR4ADg62c&spfreload=1

Of course it is always the endresult what counts, but putting three microphones on top of eachother will obstruct the sound waves in such way that the reflective areas of housings cause sound pressure build up. This will cause unpredictable anomalies of the directional patterns and create uncontrollable peaks and dips in frequency behaviour. Especially on 90 degrees (side ways) the large area of the microphone bodies cause extra pressure build up, the germans call "Druckstau". There is also a risk of creating earthloops connecting the housings together.

I notice this particular SACD recording was destined for both 5.0 surround and stereo, and thus perhaps the mic arrays had to provide for both delivery types, although the end credits state that independent arrays were used for each ? Can anyone identify the mics in use...maybe it was an MS array with an added omni for more bass extension ?

Placing microphones on top of eachother as a triple "straus-packet" may cause unwanted directional irregularities for both horizontal and vertical plane, a single and freely placed microphone is not exposed to.

A similar effect but more controlled can be realised when applying the DPA "sausage" APE type L110C pressure build up device. The L110C is a pressure equalizer like the APE30/40/50 mm balls and is shaped in a sausage form, 11cm long and a diameter of approx. 2.5cm. Depending on how it is angled, it causes a gentle rise either for frontal vertical or frontal horizontal incoming waves with approx. 2.5 dB peaking at 3 kHz, very comparable with the concept of rectangular capsules.

The more microphones you stick close together, the more each individual microphone will be influenced by the neighbours because of area pressure build up and obstruction of sound waves.

Given that this seems to be one of the main Straus Packet discussions on the forum, I thought I'd add to it (albeit after a few years) rather than create a parallel thread...

I've been researching some of the work by the Tritonus team for the ECM New Series releases and notice that Straus Packets are (still) heavily employed by them -- see photos below for a couple of examples.

Without rehashing some of what has already been thoroughly discussed earlier in this thread, I'm curious to hear more from any currently active Straus enthusiasts who favor this technique. I can only assume that, in these days of readily available and excellent wide cardioids, the preference is due in large part to the additional control and blending options. This is what I'd like to hear more about, if anyone would care to share their thoughts, any clips, etc. Clearly Peter Laenger, Markus Heiland, et. al. continue to use the technique for good reasons.

Comb filter city.

Would anyone else care to offer an equally laconic opinion from the pro-Straus Packet camp? Or better still, some slightly more expansive thoughts?

Rest assured, I won't belabor this if there doesn't seem to be much interest.

I'd never use a paket on main microphones. The combined signal is a little washy. Often, when recording things with large chorus, (Check out the Mahler 8 from Utah Symphony/Mormon Tabernacle Choir on Reference for example) we'll double hang omni and cardoids on the chorus mics, to give some options in post, but that's about the only place I'd ever consider using a paket these days. We're looking for a blended sound with diction and in this case a little smear doesn't hurt.
As always, YMMV.
All the best,
-mark

Back in March I recorded a Sacred Harp Convention of approximately 200 singers
and best result was a 2ft spaced pair of Josephson C617 omni’s with piggy-backed
MKH8040 cardiods with mics 14’ above the center of the square and aimed at diagonals of the square (for those unfamiliar, Sacred Harp aka Shape Note singing is done in a square with
one part, Treble (soprano)/Bass/Tenor/Alto, on each side of the square facing the leader in the center.). The best sound came from approximately 2/3 omni plus 1/3 cardiod).
Here’s a link to a 1644 version (original recorded
at 2496 via Gordon preamps to SD788.) of part of the hymn, “New Jerusalem”.

New Jerusalem Sample.wav - Google Drive
Enjoy!
Bill

Mark, thank you as always for your thoughts on this!

Bill, thanks for the sample and explanation. Out of curiosity, was this a problem-solving move on your part in that specific situation, or do you use the technique regularly?

While I appreciate the example of a main mic system using the Packet, I'd be more curious to discuss its application in a spot mic'ing context. This is particularly what I have observed in the aforementioned Tritonus documentation, where it seems a spaced pair of omnis (alone) are frequently used for overall pickup.

Attached are a couple other example photos from Keith Jarrett's Goldberg Variations session.

When I am doing big live recordings (choirs, Oratorio, etc) I never have a chance to try and revise so I like to have options after the fact. Also the same reason that I often use my Soundfield DSF-1. Maybe someday I will have the experience and confidence to rely only on fixed rigs but not anytime soon.
I don’t have any experience using it in spot micing but I would expect that phase issues
and whether the cardiod is on top or bottom might possibly be a concern.

My issues with the Paket are the exact same issues I have with MS micing. The summing is the big problem. It makes the sound fuzzy and less precise. I find it funny, people that have no problems with MS have issues with a Paket. They are one and the same(Except for the phasy junk in MS. Flame away folks!)
Just a reminder, that to my knowledge Straus never used a paket once the KM143 was created. I know because Philips sold all their KM83 and 84 in 1991. (We bought something like 80 or 90 of them for $200 ea.....and sold them all here in the states...)
As always, YMMV.
All the best,
-mark

MKH 8020 is a fantastic mic. Not surprised that it did best on its own.