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Microtech Gefell M930 Love
Old 27th May 2015
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by AB3 View Post
A beautiful mic for sure. I would love to try the 950s.

I love the size of the mic.
+1 Very intrigued by the wide cardioid pattern of the m950 and definitely have to go for the beautiful dark bronze finish. Ah, temptation!
Old 27th May 2015
  #32
Gear Addict
 

Since this thread has been resurrected, I'll pose a question that has been rattling around in my head for a long time; inspired by this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
The M930, M930ts, M1030, UM930, UM930 Twin, M990 all use a newly designed Gefell capsule, that is different from the lovely M7 that is outfitted in the UMT70s, MT71s, UM900, UM92.1s, M92.1s microphones. The tone of these microphones is quite different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkl View Post
I also have an M71s with the M7 capsule. The M9 and M7 capsules are not even remotely alike.
I would love to read about how they are not alike.

In the most general sense, could anyone with good experience with both lines draw out the major sonic distinctions between the M7-capsuled mics and the M9-capsuled mics?
Old 27th May 2015
  #33
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Doc Mixwell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieter k View Post
Since this thread has been resurrected, I'll pose a question that has been rattling around in my head for a long time; inspired by this:





I would love to read about how they are not alike.

In the most general sense, could anyone with good experience with both lines draw out the major sonic distinctions between the M7-capsuled mics and the M9-capsuled mics?
Maybe this link will help identify things more,
Gefell Microphone Capsule Types

It is hard to breakdown just the capsule's footprint, because all the mics have different circuits too. But I would describe the Gefell Mics with the M9 capsule to have more top end extension and depth to them. It also has a different peak area. The M7 has a creamier top end smoothness.

With the Low Noise Circuits of the M930 design, when I A/B the UMT70s, I find that the M930 is more open and "unfurled" capturing more inner detail to my ears. More Bottom End Presence. But the UMT70s is a little more "finished" sounding. It has a creaminess to it, while the M930 has a "sweetness" or air to it and is very very fast sounding. With the Presence Peak of the M930 [around 7-10k I think] its pretty "airy" but not harsh.

Just highlights the top end detail quite well. Especially in the back field. For close position they are not the most flattering mics. The UMT70s or other M7 specimen have a bit more ear pleasing sex appeal. I think its softer sounding. IMO. But the M9 capsule Kinda reminds me the KK47 but with the peak shifted up higher. I think the Head-basket also contributes to the sonic qualities so these comments can and will change per model. For instance the M1030 and M930 use the same M9 capsule, but they tune the M1030's capsule different to couple with the larger head basket acoustics.

It has more mid range fullness, which is good for vocals/broadcast in many instances. The M930 aims to be very uncolored with zero head basket coloration, similar to the UMT70s and MT71s microphones. Which have very small enclosure grills. There isn't enough time for the sound to bounce around. Overall, every Gefell mic sounds different. The tonal approach feels different. Another for instance...The M990. That mic has the M9 of the M930, but with the Tube Amp of the UM92.1s. A Hybrid mic that appeals to a bright, clear velvety modern sound.
Old 5th June 2015
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
It is hard to breakdown just the capsule's footprint, because all the mics have different circuits too....A Hybrid mic that appeals to a bright, clear velvety modern sound.
Adam, many thanks for the detailed, thoughtful reply. I meant to reply before and it somehow slipped; a bit ungracious after your time spent writing.

This was indeed helpful!
Old 6th June 2015
  #35
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Doc Mixwell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieter k View Post
Adam, many thanks for the detailed, thoughtful reply. I meant to reply before and it somehow slipped; a bit ungracious after your time spent writing.

This was indeed helpful!
No worries! I type real fast

Glad I could be of assistance!
Old 21st June 2015
  #36
Here for the gear
 

I want pay this mic, but can't find used mic.. New it is some big money for me..I'm see all forum and eBay 3 month, but can't find anywhere..sometimes only by pair..
Old 22nd June 2015
  #37
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John Willett's Avatar
 

Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apache Tube View Post
I want pay this mic, but can't find used mic.. New it is some big money for me..I'm see all forum and eBay 3 month, but can't find anywhere..sometimes only by pair..
Not surprised - this is a mic. people tend to keep.
Old 22nd December 2015
  #38
Yesterday i had the chance to use the M930. A local dealer had it and gave to me for a 4 days studio demo. First, in Hihat... sweet "open" and clean. No harsh in hi-freqs (10Khz-12Khz). After this, we made a recording to an aggressive male vocalist... with too less compression and voile! no eq no compression no fx... Track get in the mix ! Sounds like older U89 ! Yeap... tomorrow i'll try it in front of 4X12 Mesa Boogie Cabs with a lot of noise! Great mic too small item too "big" sound! Natural, clean, and Big! A Must Have mic !
Old 22nd December 2015
  #39
930 and 930 TS ( I own a pair of the TS) are no brainers if someone starts looking for professional cardioid mics with neutral but expensive sound. The price is extremly reasonable and with a "Neumann" Brand it would sit between 2 and 2.5 k per Mic . For me it´s the best allrounder cardiod mic available. But ok, the form factor is not for everybody even with its advantages compared to many poser and pretender mics
Old 23rd December 2015
  #40
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didier.brest's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ensoniq View Post
The price is extremly reasonable and with a "Neumann" Brand it would sit between 2 and 2.5 k per Mic .
Transformerless cardioid microphones:
Microtech Gefell M930: 1093 €
Neumann TLM 193: 1099 €
Old 23rd December 2015
  #41
im going to buy a pair of UM70 (card-omni-fig8) capsules, with M582 tube bodies. and planning to buy MV691 transistor bodies.

The cardio-only M71 sounds even better (more bass, more high freq, clearer, but it is cardio only

No idea how it compares to other mikes, as I never tested any other LDC's.
So no opinion on the transformer/transformerless debate.

I did a lot of testing with these: classical mezzo soprano,
piano, church organ, drums, tenor rock voice, guitar.

very good mic, in some cases it has a tonal quality which ribbons, and SDC's can't match.

the cool thing is these older series are modular, so you can use the bodies on different capsules.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #42
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkl View Post
I was lucky to have both the M930 and the M930ts at the same time. I was waiting for the ts to arrive from Germany and my dealer gave me a M930 for a loner while I waited. I tried both, side by side, before I sent the M930 back. My impressions...

The M930 sounds wonderful to me. The M9 capsule is very articulate and clear. There is something almost brutally accurate about it and the brightness that people talk about is real, but no more so than many other LDC's. (Many have a lift somewhere up there between 6 and 12k.) I used it mostly for vocals. You want the vocals to sound good before you use this mic, I think. If they do, then they will probably sound amazing with the mic.

The M930ts has all of the clarity and fast response of the M930, but the transformer gives it a bit of "glossiness" that, in my view, makes it a bit more forgiving. More like a U87 in its "transformerness", but without the boxiness of a U87 and more articulate. It's a more flattering mic, I think, than the M930.

I like both the M930 and the M930ts. My use is mostly on my own voice. It benefits from the added shine and girth that the transformer provides. A better singer might prefer the M930. I need the M930ts. (The rest of your recording chain will, of course, matter too. If you've already got a bunch of transformers and some other harmonic distortion in your signal path then it's a more complex decision.)

I also have an M71s with the M7 capsule. The M9 and M7 capsules are not even remotely alike. Both wonderful.

Hope this helps.
Do you think a Neve 1073 clone (BAE 1073 DMP) will impart enough transformer smoothness to make the M930 the better choice for a singer who generally needs a lot of compression and benefits from smoothing, generally? Asking for a friend, who is me. I figured I'd get up close to the M930 to get some proximity boost if the low end is too thin, but maybe the M930ts is the better choice.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retsalah View Post
Do you think a Neve 1073 clone (BAE 1073 DMP) will impart enough transformer smoothness to make the M930 the better choice for a singer who generally needs a lot of compression and benefits from smoothing, generally? Asking for a friend, who is me. I figured I'd get up close to the M930 to get some proximity boost if the low end is too thin, but maybe the M930ts is the better choice.
You should try the MT 71 S. One of the smoothest mics in this price range.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #44
AB3
Lives for gear
 

the Vanguard V13 is also great for "smoothing."

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetam View Post
You should try the MT 71 S. One of the smoothest mics in this price range.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #45
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetam View Post
You should try the MT 71 S. One of the smoothest mics in this price range.
Thanks all. I've narrowed my choice to a new MT 71 S or a used M 71 S. I'm not sure about capsule longevity on the used side. Any advice there?

Jesse
Old 2 weeks ago
  #46
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by retsalah View Post
Thanks all. I've narrowed my choice to a new MT 71 S or a used M 71 S. I'm not sure about capsule longevity on the used side. Any advice there?

Jesse
Unless the used one is way cheaper, I'd get the new one. I've been told by the distributor that Gefell's M7 capsules are more durable than other well known PVC capsules, but AFAIK they still use PVC diaphragms which probably won't last forever. Besides the fact that Gefell makes some of the best microphones available, their support/service is IMO one of the best in the business if you'll ever need some servicing.
Old 1 weeks ago
  #47
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ISedlacek's Avatar
I had almost all the Gefells here several times. Incl. M930, M950 etc. They are nice. Till the moment you compare them with Schoeps - then they sound a tiny bit 2D and metallic in comparison ... well, what to do
Old 1 week ago
  #48
AB3
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I agree. However, the mt71s and the like are unique among themselves and to me, very different from the m930 or m950. But, for clarity and yet musicality, I think the schoeps are the best!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
I had almost all the Gefells here several times. Incl. M930, M950 etc. They are nice. Till the moment you compare them with Schoeps - then they sound a tiny bit 2D and metallic in comparison ... well, what to do
Old 1 week ago
  #49
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by AB3 View Post
I agree. However, the mt71s and the like are unique among themselves and to me, very different from the m930 or m950. But, for clarity and yet musicality, I think the schoeps are the best!
I second that. I love Schoepses, but comparing their SDC-s with Gefell's LDC-s is IMO a bit pointless. MT71 and UM92.1 are great for what they are. M930 is not my personal favourite, but I can appreciate it for what it is - very compact LDC with incredibly low self noise, huge dynamic range, quite reasonable price, quite clean sound for a LDC, but it still behaves as a LDC. It's HF bump can be helpful in certain situations and annoying in the others. For what I do (and my taste), it's more on the annoying side.
Old 1 week ago
  #50
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Progger's Avatar
I'm wondering if any Gefell owners have experienced PVC deterioration of an M7 capsule first-hand. The UMT70s and MT71s have been intriguing to me for a long time, as has the M930, but lately I've been leaning toward the M930 because of the Mylar capsule. My only first-hand experience with any of these was recording at Elm Street Studios just outside Philadelphia, where they have a ton of MT71s, and I thought the sound was very nice. But it seems to me that Mylar is just an all-around better material for capsule longevity. How concerned should owners of M7-equipped mics be of deterioration over a decade or two?
Old 1 week ago
  #51
AB3
Lives for gear
 

To me, there is just no comparision between the UMT70, MT71 type mics and the
M930. I have wanted to love the M930 - which sounds good - just never sounded great. the UMTs can sound great!!!! I live in a dry climate and had the MTs for years without any issue whatsoever. Really - worrying about what may happen ten years from now - I would not worry about that. Make some great sounds now and take care of it. Keep it in its case when not in use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Progger View Post
I'm wondering if any Gefell owners have experienced PVC deterioration of an M7 capsule first-hand. The UMT70s and MT71s have been intriguing to me for a long time, as has the M930, but lately I've been leaning toward the M930 because of the Mylar capsule. My only first-hand experience with any of these was recording at Elm Street Studios just outside Philadelphia, where they have a ton of MT71s, and I thought the sound was very nice. But it seems to me that Mylar is just an all-around better material for capsule longevity. How concerned should owners of M7-equipped mics be of deterioration over a decade or two?
Old 1 week ago
  #52
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tourtelot's Avatar
A question for those who might have both. If I already have a pair of UM70S, is there any reason, other than Sluttiness, to get a pair of M930s?

I have seen and heard them used on upright basses to really good effect. I have never heard the UM70S mics on bass.

D.
Old 1 week ago
  #53
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
A question for those who might have both. If I already have a pair of UM70S, is there any reason, other than Sluttiness, to get a pair of M930s?

I have seen and heard them used on upright basses to really good effect. I have never heard the UM70S mics on bass.

D.
I have both UMT70S and M950 (as well as about every model of Schoeps) and they are very different microphones: the M9 capsule has a clearly faster transient response than the M7 capsule. For acoustic/classical the M9 is the more realistic type. The M7 is particularly mid-detail strong, which has another use than the overall high detail of the M9 capsules. UMT70S is a great spot mic, whereas the M9 types are more useful at moderately larger distances, such as for micing small ensembles. I cannot understand some of the previous comments regarding lesser depth and detail of the M9 compared to Schoeps mics. I have never heard better depth than from the M950 (which is in the same league as Sonodore LDM-54 in that respect), something I have extensively tested under controlled conditions against the different Schoeps capsules as well. It does matter though which preamp you will be using for any of the brands. M9 mics go particularly well with ADT TM101 and TC Earlybird 4. For highs the Forssell SMP-2 goes very well with Schoeps, because it has some sweetening exactly where the Schoeps mics can be a bit grating. Unfortunately the lowest octaves of the SMP-2 are a bit blurry and combined with the slightly muddy lows of Schoeps Mk2 types it is not the most versatile preamp for all sources.

The extremely low self noise of the M9 mics greatly adds to the impression of depth as even the smallest sonic details will never sink into the noise floor. This allows for an unparralled plasticity of sounds at any loudness level, also since the M9's have a very high max SPL.

Of course M9 is an LDC, so it has very different properties than SDCs, especially in the off-axis areas. A reason why it is less suitable for large ensemble pickup. Still, for small ensembles the M950's are amongst my absolute top picks, normally preferred over Schoeps Mk21's.
Old 1 week ago
  #54
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tourtelot's Avatar
Very nice explanation. Thanks.

Slutiness prevails!!

D.
Old 1 week ago
  #55
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Plush's Avatar
Gefell 950 wide cardioid also KING of piano pick up. As used in Warsaw for the Int'l. Chopin piano competition.
Old 1 week ago
  #56
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Very nice explanation. Thanks.

Slutiness prevails!!

D.
It may be noteworthy that M950 forms an almost perfect M/S pair with MKH30, with practically no audible frequency response shifts over a very even distributed half circle of the stereo image. This evenenness makes it the best of the M9 bunch for this particular purpose. This is great for semi-circled small ensembles. The polar plots are all normalized, so in reality the higher frequencies of the M9 mics stick a bit through the front and follow more closely the side pattern of the lower frequencies. Due to this pickup shape the normally weaker highs of a center that is positioned further back than the sides will be compensated for. A typical string quartet with violins left and right and cello and viola in the center will greatly profit of this. I would not recommend an ORTF with the M930's exactly for this same reason, as you wouldn't want extra highs from the sides where the violins are already positioned and the effect of frontal membrane impact is much better spent on viola and cello. Violins do profit from a slightly mellower "in-between" pickup of both M9.. and MKH30.

The very short distance of the M9 capsule to the top of these mics makes them all highly suitable for M/S setups. Stick a thin strip of rubber on top of the basket's arch so that the head of the MKH30 can rest upon it with no play or bounce.
Old 1 week ago
  #57
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Gefell 950 wide cardioid also KING of piano pick up. As used in Warsaw for the Int'l. Chopin piano competition.
Yes, it should be noted that musically the M950's are the more exciting ones, whereas the M930's are a bit more "standard" sounding.

Check out the very smooth non-smoothed frequency plots of my M950 pair in the PDF below:
Attached Files
File Type: pdf M950_plots.pdf (1.08 MB, 42 views)
Old 1 week ago
  #58
Gear Addict
 
lukedamrosch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
Check out the very smooth non-smoothed frequency plots of my M950 pair in the PDF below:
Now that indeed is what is known as "engineering"
Old 6 days ago
  #59
Gear Maniac
 

Your posts are always appreciated here!

Have you ever tried the M950 on a classical guitar?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
I have both UMT70S and M950 (as well as about every model of Schoeps) and they are very different microphones: the M9 capsule has a clearly faster transient response than the M7 capsule. For acoustic/classical the M9 is the more realistic type. The M7 is particularly mid-detail strong, which has another use than the overall high detail of the M9 capsules. UMT70S is a great spot mic, whereas the M9 types are more useful at moderately larger distances, such as for micing small ensembles. I cannot understand some of the previous comments regarding lesser depth and detail of the M9 compared to Schoeps mics. I have never heard better depth than from the M950 (which is in the same league as Sonodore LDM-54 in that respect), something I have extensively tested under controlled conditions against the different Schoeps capsules as well. It does matter though which preamp you will be using for any of the brands. M9 mics go particularly well with ADT TM101 and TC Earlybird 4. For highs the Forssell SMP-2 goes very well with Schoeps, because it has some sweetening exactly where the Schoeps mics can be a bit grating. Unfortunately the lowest octaves of the SMP-2 are a bit blurry and combined with the slightly muddy lows of Schoeps Mk2 types it is not the most versatile preamp for all sources.

The extremely low self noise of the M9 mics greatly adds to the impression of depth as even the smallest sonic details will never sink into the noise floor. This allows for an unparralled plasticity of sounds at any loudness level, also since the M9's have a very high max SPL.

Of course M9 is an LDC, so it has very different properties than SDCs, especially in the off-axis areas. A reason why it is less suitable for large ensemble pickup. Still, for small ensembles the M950's are amongst my absolute top picks, normally preferred over Schoeps Mk21's.
Old 6 days ago
  #60
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PluckinTones View Post
Your posts are always appreciated here!

Have you ever tried the M950 on a classical guitar?
I have, I find too bright sounding for classical guitar and still lacks the full tone of an omni.
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