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The ultimate *affordable* omni's for main miking large orchestras
Old 20th March 2019 | Show parent
  #181
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya ➡️
The answer to this question remains NT5s with Omni caps. Too bright pointing at the group? Turn em around or point them up.

They really are very surprising mics for how cheaply this setup can be had. Try them with balls too.
Yes they fight well above their weight class. Re. balls....do you have any ready-manufactured sources you could recommend, or have you gone the DIY route for these ?
Old 21st March 2019 | Show parent
  #182
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king2070lplaya's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
Yes they fight well above their weight class. Re. balls....do you have any ready-manufactured sources you could recommend, or have you gone the DIY route for these ?
You can use the Schoeps spheres as they are the same diameter, or you can buy those 3D printed ones, which are apparently better than they used to be. Or you can make your own.
Old 14th April 2019 | Show parent
  #183
Gear Head
 
I can buy an used pair of neumann km183 OR a pair of at4022. Which pair do you recommend for classical music/Wind bands?
Old 14th April 2019 | Show parent
  #184
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorba1977 ➡️
I can buy an used pair of neumann km183 OR a pair of at4022. Which pair do you recommend for classical music/Wind bands?
The AT will be much lower cost than the Neumann. Maybe you could start with a pair of the AT, and if you don't like them you could sell them with much less loss than if you sold the Neumanns ?

What sort of hall or room are you going to be using them in ?
Old 14th April 2019 | Show parent
  #185
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorba1977 ➡️
I can buy an used pair of neumann km183 OR a pair of at4022. Which pair do you recommend for classical music/Wind bands?
Between those two the KM183 are the much better mics. Using omni mics--
so-called "real microphones," is both a great challenge and the ultimate sound.
Old 14th April 2019 | Show parent
  #186
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didier.brest's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorba1977 ➡️
I can buy an used pair of neumann km183 OR a pair of at4022.
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
The AT will be much lower cost than the Neumann. Maybe you could start with a pair of the AT, and if you don't like them you could sell them with much less loss than if you sold the Neumanns ?
I think the opposite.


2 new AT4022 price ~ 750 €


KM 183 stereo set price ~ 1400 € (It can be found for less than 1300 €). Used price < 1000 €. If sold, loss on 2 new AT4022 is expectingly larger than on an used KM 183 stereo set.
Old 14th April 2019 | Show parent
  #187
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
183s. No question. Like I said about the 184s, it wouldn't be my first choice but I could make a good recording with them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zorba1977 ➡️
I can buy an used pair of neumann km183 OR a pair of at4022. Which pair do you recommend for classical music/Wind bands?
Old 14th April 2019 | Show parent
  #188
Gear Head
 
They are all used, so if I sell them I don't expect to loss too money.
I will record in theaters, churches, small halls and outdoor.
Old 14th April 2019
  #189
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🎧 10 years
They are both capable mics. You can achieve credible results with either. The money you save with the Audio Technica AT4022 mics can be used for other gear. But the enjoyment you will have from owning the Neumann mics may be worth the difference in price. If you don't worry about budget, buy the KM183 pair.
Old 15th April 2019 | Show parent
  #190
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king2070lplaya's Avatar
Neumann, unless you’re expecting to use them up-close a lot.

They are diffused field EQ’d so they work incredibly well for things like pipe organ, room mics, large ensemble mains, etc where the mics are 10 to infinity feet in the air.

On chamber ensembles or solo setups they’ll start to show their brightness in somewhat unflattering ways, though this can be slightly alleviated with clever mic placement.

But they are Neumann’s, and very good mics. They have “the sound”. Highly recommended
Old 15th April 2019 | Show parent
  #191
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya ➡️

They have “the sound”.
Careful! You’re starting to sound like Plush. Respect the brand, buddy
Old 16th April 2019 | Show parent
  #192
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king2070lplaya's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by avillalta ➡️
Careful! You’re starting to sound like Plush. Respect the brand, buddy
Old 16th April 2019 | Show parent
  #193
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🎧 10 years
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by avillalta ➡️
Careful! You’re starting to sound like Plush. Respect the brand, buddy
Old 16th April 2019 | Show parent
  #194
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king2070lplaya's Avatar
To be fair, this was my original post here.

I’m partial to diffuse field Omnis with balls, what can I say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya ➡️
The answer to this question remains NT5s with Omni caps. Too bright pointing at the group? Turn em around or point them up.

They really are very surprising mics for how cheaply this setup can be had. Try them with balls too.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #195
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YRLK's Avatar
Just weighing in for the posterity of others...

I found the comparison on this thread to be of particular interest:

Schoeps MK 2h vs Sennheiser MKH 8020 Vs Telefunken M60 on Cello

As such, while I think that I preferred the Sennheisers most, I decided to order a Telefunken M60 master set and add some spheres.

At least in the very generous comparison test that the user Jagalle47 posted, I thought the Telefunken M60’s sonic quality left me just about as wowed as the Schoeps and Sennheisers did—the Schoeps felt slightly lacking in low end to me, I thought the Sennheisers were perfect, and the Telefunkens had the low end of the Sennheisers with just a touch of “lift” toward the top.

But once again, we must be reminded of the importance of a good performance beyond any equipment selection.

I just thought that the Telefunken M60’s sounded too good to pass up, and I’ve been wanting to experiment recording piano and drums differently for some time. The kit I ordered should give me a LOT of options.

Also, I know the M60’s aren’t as affordable as others mentioned in this thread, but they’re supposedly quite low-noise, and sounded quite comparable against the best of the best SDC’s to my ears.

Just my two cents. Best to everyone.

Last edited by YRLK; 1 week ago at 05:38 PM..
Old 6 days ago
  #196
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🎧 10 years
Meanwhile, sE has presented its sdc omni:
https://www.seelectronics.com/se8-omni-mic
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #197
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by heva ➡️
Meanwhile, sE has presented its sdc omni:
https://www.seelectronics.com/se8-omni-mic
Yes, the sE8 looks to be a good balance of manufacturing quality, performance and price. It's got that typical 8-9kHz 'detail retrieval' bump engineered in, for far-field recording.

If you're going to be using the mic for closer work, would there be anything detrimental by simply inserting an inverse dip eq in your DAW to bring it back to flat response, for that specific HF region...or at least a diminished boost to the one designed in ?
Old 6 days ago
  #198
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🎧 10 years
OT: is the bump “built-in” or simply “not corrected” (because of natural pressurezone build up on-axis)?
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #199
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by heva ➡️
OT: is the bump “built-in” or simply “not corrected” (because of natural pressurezone build up on-axis)?
I don't know, but I thought the 'built-in' model would account for the 2 families of Omni: the 8k bump family: Neumann KM183, Rode NT 45-O, sE8 Omni, MK2S
The flat family: MKH20/ 8020, Line Audio OM-1

Last edited by studer58; 6 days ago at 04:32 PM..
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #200
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pkautzsch's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
If you're going to be using the mic for closer work, would there be anything detrimental by simply inserting an inverse dip eq in your DAW to bring it back to flat response, for that specific HF region...or at least a diminished boost to the one designed in ?
No reason to not EQ, if it gets you the sound you want. "Flat" omnis actually are just "corrected inside the mic", electronically or mechanically, with same results. The natural response of a pressure omni is treble boosted on-axis and flat at 90°, with center frequency of the boost depending on diaphragm size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
I don't know, but I thought the 'built-in' model would account for the 2 families of Omni: the 8k bump family: Neumann KM183, Rode NT 45-O, sE8 Omni, MK2S
The flat family: MKH20/ 8020, Line Audio OM-1
You might add to the flat family: KM131 and MK2, for example. The MK2H is in between MK2 (free field) and MK2S (diffuse field).
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #201
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkautzsch ➡️
The natural response of a pressure omni is treble boosted on-axis and flat at 90°, with center frequency of the boost depending on diaphragm size.
I didn't know that....I'd always thought it was 'engineered in' to the mic, either via capsule tuning or preamp eq, to counteract the natural HF losses of the sound passing through air in the more distant 'diffuse' field ?
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #202
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pkautzsch's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
I didn't know that....I'd always thought it was 'engineered in' to the mic, either via capsule tuning or preamp eq, to counteract the natural HF losses of the sound passing through air in the more distant 'diffuse' field ?
The typical 8k or 10 k bump is the natural diaphragm resonance (which can be damped mechanically for a flat free-field response, so yes it's kinda tuned into the mic, but the easy way), and to a certain degree a boundary layer effect for very short wavelengths in the range of mic diameter.
So it's actually easier to make a treble boosted omni than a flat one, that's why most low-budget omnis from the far east are treble boosted.
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #203
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkautzsch ➡️
So it's actually easier to make a treble boosted omni than a flat one, that's why most low-budget omnis from the far east are treble boosted.
...great, thank you for the explanation !
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #204
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkautzsch ➡️
So it's actually easier to make a treble boosted omni than a flat one, that's why most low-budget omnis from the far east are treble boosted.
If only they could make two consecutive ones off the line that had the -same- treble boost.
--scott
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