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Schubert Quintet recording video
Old 18th November 2009
  #1
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Talking Schubert Quintet recording video

Amazon.com : Entertainment : Belcea Quartet/Erben - Schubert Streichquintett (Promotion)

Pity one can't really see the main pair.
Old 18th November 2009
  #2
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sounds great! thank you for the link!
Old 18th November 2009
  #3
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Roland's Avatar
I caught what seemed like a glance at the main pair and it looked like Schoeps. I think from the mic stand set up it's an AB pair plus a pair further back for ambience and KM84's as spots. As the disc is for EMI I'm guessing it's an EMI team doing the job, seeing the Pyramix and the B&W's also tends to suggest this too. Sound's pretty good on the computer speakers, quite like the performance.

Regards


Roland
Old 18th November 2009
  #4
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It looks like excessive use of microphones for this piece. Why is it not recorded in a fine hall with a stereo pair. Was the room a barnyard shed?

I have, just this last week, recorded this piece with the Jerusalem Quartet and Zvi Plesser in a world class acoustic with a single pair of MK21's. Heavenly.
Old 18th November 2009
  #5
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Sounds good! (on the laptop speakers)
Old 18th November 2009
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The performance may be good but sound wise I think a lot is missing.

I agree, a nice hall with a stereo pair would have been better (to my ears).


/Peter
Old 18th November 2009
  #7
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A stereo pair would be enough, but this setup sounds great.
Old 18th November 2009
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Larry Elliott's Avatar
Maybe it is also going to be released as SACD - or at least ensuring that it can be.
Old 18th November 2009
  #9
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Roland's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
It looks like excessive use of microphones for this piece. Why is it not recorded in a fine hall with a stereo pair. Was the room a barnyard shed?

I have, just this last week, recorded this piece with the Jerusalem Quartet and Zvi Plesser in a world class acoustic with a single pair of MK21's. Heavenly.

The session is at the Potton Hall, which I believe has a reasonable acoustic. It's quite possible that not all the mics are being used in the final mix of things and that this is more of a belt and braces approach should there be balance issues discovered later. That the recording (or at least the bits heard on the video) sounds very good for me, would suggest that it's a job well done, the performance (or at least the parts of it played on the video) sounds really first rate.

Quote:
The performance may be good but sound wise I think a lot is missing.

I agree, a nice hall with a stereo pair would have been better (to my ears).


/Peter
Perhaps you can elaborate on what you think sounds missing?

Potton Hall is a reasonably well acknowledged recording venue, whereas the approach possibly wouldn't have been mine, it's a good professional job, nothing less than I would expect from an EMI team.

Regards


Roland
Old 18th November 2009
  #10
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ISedlacek's Avatar
I like the performance very much ...
Old 19th November 2009
  #11
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*sigh* performance is great, but being the obsessive git that I am, the audio isn't my cup of tea. too much in your face. sound everywhere.... mics all over, doesn't look like an ideal venue. i'll pass on this one. going to crawl back under my vinyl records and tube amplifiers and come out once the war is over. hopefully there will be survivors.
Old 19th November 2009
  #12
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Teddy Ray's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
It looks like excessive use of microphones for this piece. Why is it not recorded in a fine hall with a stereo pair. Was the room a barnyard shed?

I have, just this last week, recorded this piece with the Jerusalem Quartet and Zvi Plesser in a world class acoustic with a single pair of MK21's. Heavenly.
Now don't be getting all modest, David. just kidding. Where can one pick this up?
Old 19th November 2009
  #13
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I wish I could post a bit but the agreement is strict and will not allow it. I would check the CD's issued by the Jerusalem Qtet, they are stunning playas.
Old 19th November 2009
  #14
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Right, in the beginning one can see what looks like an MK2H pair angled down and slightly outwards. Although there are a few shots of the DAW screen, I'm not quite sure one can tell how they used the spots.
I think it's quite a good "how to mic a string quintet and have lots of options" video...
Old 19th November 2009
  #15
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Teddy Ray's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
I wish I could post a bit but the agreement is strict and will not allow it. I would check the CD's issued by the Jerusalem Qtet, they are stunning playas.

will your recording be issued on cd?
Old 19th November 2009
  #16
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I wonder why they felt the need to use risers on the whole group? Risers can be just the ticket for bringing a cello or viola into balance when using a stereo pair only. I am not sure what everyone on risers is achieving sonically in this case? I guess it is increasing the length of time of that first reflection off the floor? Has anyone tried with and without the risers under the whole group and heard a benefit worth noting that wouldn't exist had they just lowered the mics by the same hight?

Cameron
Old 19th November 2009
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roonsbane View Post
I wonder why they felt the need to use risers on the whole group? Risers can be just the ticket for bringing a cello or viola into balance when using a stereo pair only. I am not sure what everyone on risers is achieving sonically in this case? I guess it is increasing the length of time of that first reflection off the floor? Has anyone tried with and without the risers under the whole group and heard a benefit worth noting that wouldn't exist had they just lowered the mics by the same hight?

Cameron

Cam, it brings the music closer to God.

Rob
Old 19th November 2009
  #18
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Don S's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empiria View Post
A stereo pair would be enough, but this setup sounds great.
We might have been hearing mostly a stereo pair. It looks like the engineer just covered his butt and spotted everyone. The hall sounded a bit aggressive during the forte passages. Wow - the performance is extremely fine tuned. It would be difficult to make them sound bad!
Looks like pyramix on the screen.
Old 19th November 2009
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland View Post
....
Perhaps you can elaborate on what you think sounds missing?
...
Pizzicati 2nd Vc beginning of 2nd movement initially too weak. (for internet reproduction)
Old 25th November 2009
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkautzsch View Post
I think judging from the sound that they were creating a sound 'cocktail'. I see absolutely no reason to mic in this manner.

Five players should be able to get the tonal balance they desire just from experience and practice. Additionally I would probably like to see a ribbon stereo pair for this instrumentation; if the room was good that would probably have been the best solution.

DG in the 1970's used to fly a Decca tree and then mic almost every stand of players, and their recordings are perhaps the most concocted bunch of nonsense I have ever heard. I am all for the use of spot mics, but this offends my Classical music training and every instinct that I have.

Classical music is about natural self expression in a natural acoustic space. This is not...
Old 25th November 2009
  #21
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Roland's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdatman View Post
I think judging from the sound that they were creating a sound 'cocktail'. I see absolutely no reason to mic in this manner.

Five players should be able to get the tonal balance they desire just from experience and practice. Additionally I would probably like to see a ribbon stereo pair for this instrumentation; if the room was good that would probably have been the best solution.

DG in the 1970's used to fly a Decca tree and then mic almost every stand of players, and their recordings are perhaps the most concocted bunch of nonsense I have ever heard. I am all for the use of spot mics, but this offends my Classical music training and every instinct that I have.

Classical music is about natural self expression in a natural acoustic space. This is not...
I suspect that it is only about covering all bases, being they work for EMI you probably have the mentality that going back to base and at that point someone saying there isn't enough 2nd violin and not being able to do anything about it, isn't acceptable in their view.

Ribbon mic's whilst I appreciate their finner qualities, I can't think of many respected classical engineers that would totally entrust a string quartet/quintet recording too them, certainly as the only main pair.

regards


Roland
Old 25th November 2009
  #22
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Yes, I am certain that every "suit" will have his idea just how the recording should sound. There will most likely be many meetings taken until the final hash is finally released.

There are advantages to being the only engineer on a project for a small non-profit. It's not in the paycheck, but the CD will probably end up sounding like you planned, for good or bad.

D.
Old 10th November 2010
  #23
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Probably, when the video camera was put away and the promo finished, someone said, "Ok let's get rid of all these extra stands and those silly little platforms. Let's position the main pair for real and we'll make a start!!
Old 10th November 2010
  #24
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Roland's Avatar
Whilst the recording may not be everybody's cup of tea, it certainly is of a good professional standard. Although, as pointed out in other posts, a stereo pair as favoured by many smaller labels, might produce better results, I've also heard many recordings on smaller labels, done in simple ways, that quite frankly, aren't very good either. Having options back at base, rather than trying to make balance decisions in more often than not very poor acoustic listening environments makes perfect sense, particularly as recording multiple options is so easy these days.

Regards


Roland
Old 13th November 2010
  #25
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I think the "stereo pair" approach is better for capturing the ensemble and the space together, but what if you don't want the room sound? This is a studio recording that I think is nicely done. The predominant room sound on this recording is digital "reverb" and despite that, I think the engineers achieved a nice balance of tone and ensemble. I agree that the result may have been better in a superb hall, but also much more costly. There is a lot of redundancy in the miking technique, which is fine. I doubt all that the mics were used for the end result. I don't think the recording sounds over-miked, despite what you see in the video.

Mike
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