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JoeCo BlackBox Recorder at AES
Old 15th October 2009
  #1
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Talking JoeCo BlackBox Recorder at AES

I had hoped to make it to AES but ended up working all weekend. Did anyone get to the JoeCo booth to check out the BlackBox? Your thoughts?
Old 15th October 2009
  #2
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Yes - briefly. It looks very cool. It is meant as a VERY simple multitrack recorder replacement. No editing, no mixing etc. They had the Line IO model on display. Simple menu interface for clock, user settings etc, individual track arming (or arm all via menu).

24 tracks of up to 96k BWAVs to an external USB drive. I liked the fact that the inputs are always wired through to the outputs so regardless of the recording status the signal always passes through. They have an AES model in the works.

I remember Joe Bull from the Sadie days - good guy - all no BS. Like a footballer who designs high-end audio gear on the side ;-)

-Silas
Old 15th October 2009
  #3
Jam
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Fingers crossed I've got one coming for a demo the week after next.

I'll let you know more when I've had a play.

James
Old 16th October 2009
  #4
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My main concern is the limited metering. It seems like a great unit for tracking as long as the meters are usable. I like that it is not trying to be a recorder/mixer combo. I think most of us are transferring to a DAW now anyway so it really doesn't need any mixing capabilities.
Old 16th October 2009
  #5
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I think when you compare this to offerings from people like Tascam, Alesis, etc it's a really good product. Apparently you can cascade them together for 48 track operation and the files (being Broadcast wav's) can be brought straight into most editing programs by simple connecting your drive to your DAW. With Joe's reputation I'm sure it will be a great device.

Regards


Roland

P.S. Perhaps he will make a 48 track version?

Last edited by Roland; 16th October 2009 at 10:04 AM.. Reason: adding a further thought
Old 16th October 2009
  #6
Hi Thomas & Silas (and everyone else)

Quote:
Apparently you can cascade them together for 48 track operation
I think he said you can link up to four of them together for a total of 96 tracks.

Looks like a very cool box - single rackspace and shallow mounting depth. It even has some limited monitoring capabilities built-in. Seems like an awesome product.

The version with balanced analog I/O will be about $3k (but will maintain the single rackspace size). They are also working on a version with digital inputs. The current unbalaced I/O is about $2.5k. Full Scale AV will be doing the U.S. distribution. I think vendors will include Full Compass.

The one thing I did NOT get to do was listen to it so I can't be sure how the converters stack up.
Old 16th October 2009
  #7
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Roland's Avatar
Yes, you are absolutely right it can cascade up to 96 tracks, the only point I was making was that it wasn't limited to 48. I spoke to Joe Bull about it and from our conversation I gathered that he is particularly proud of what he has been able to do with the convertors.

Regards



Roland
Old 17th October 2009
  #8
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Remoteness's Avatar
I didn't get a chance to ask them when I was at their booth, but I imagine that you would need four hard drives for 96 track operation. One drive for each unit.
Can anyone confirm this to be fact?
Old 17th October 2009
  #9
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That's what he said the situation would be last January at NAMM... At that point, he said it was a preliminary spec, but there was no plan for data to share between linked recorders.

--Ben
Old 17th October 2009
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

Hello,

Steve - Yes, one drive per unit. Interestingly the separate rca aes/spdif out passes control data to following units, enabling sample-accurate recording (not just LTC accurate).

It has an LTC input for time-stamping files, but no chase capability.

I read through the manual, it's basic but perfect for it's intended purpose - record files, play them back, transfer the files to a DAW.

Standard unbalanced I/O is one row of db25, wired for TRS inserts on a desk. Balanced I/O is two rows of db25. The coming AES I/O will leave the unbalanced analog I/O that can be selected for recording.

If your decision to buy the product is based on the metering then walk on by. It's only something like a four LED meter, not designed to be used for level setting, simply a presence indicator and clip indicator. Seemed to be adequate for it's intended purpose.

Hugh
Old 17th October 2009
  #11
Here for the gear
 

I have a couple of the units and listened to the converters. They are very good, not quite apogees but good for the application. Certainly as good if not better than the other similar units out with built in converters. I especially like how it works with off the shelf drives. We bought a couple of 1TB drives and just plugged them in and recorded to them.

I was able to directly edit the files on my netbook. Pretty cool.

Ted Bahas
Fullscale AV
Old 18th October 2009
  #12
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
I wrote and asked about possible madi implementation, but I never heard back.
Is madi in the works?
Old 18th October 2009
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDCT View Post
I have a couple of the units and listened to the converters. They are very good, not quite apogees but good for the application. Certainly as good if not better than the other similar units out with built in converters. I especially like how it works with off the shelf drives. We bought a couple of 1TB drives and just plugged them in and recorded to them.

I was able to directly edit the files on my netbook. Pretty cool.

Ted Bahas
Fullscale AV
I have been wondering about the A/D - inquirie only got the reponse "Proprietary."

I've been using HD24 for a while, like it at its price point. But the difference between the HD24 and the HD24XR is like night and day! I would like someone to look inside and tell me what kind of A/D, and if possible do an A/B/C test between HD24 and JoeCo and HD24XR. If it passes the audio quality test I already have one on order...

L
Old 18th October 2009
  #14
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Anyone know if you can do "punch-ins" on this thing? Both punching in for single tracks and punching all 24.
Old 18th October 2009
  #15
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benmrx View Post
Anyone know if you can do "punch-ins" on this thing? Both punching in for single tracks and punching all 24.
It is made for live show recording. You don't punch in on live gigs.

In other words, no. Get a tape deck! ;-)

L
Old 18th October 2009
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
It is made for live show recording. You don't punch in on live gigs.

In other words, no. Get a tape deck! ;-)

L
well.... I already have a tape deck... JH24 actually, but could use a product like this for a few reasons. Thanks for the info though.
Old 18th October 2009
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benmrx View Post
well.... I already have a tape deck... JH24 actually, but could use a product like this for a few reasons. Thanks for the info though.
:-) Just pulling your chain. Actuallly that info will be on their website if anywhere:

JoeCo BlackBox Recorder Summary

L
Old 18th October 2009
  #18
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Roland's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
I have been wondering about the A/D - inquirie only got the reponse "Proprietary."

I've been using HD24 for a while, like it at its price point. But the difference between the HD24 and the HD24XR is like night and day! I would like someone to look inside and tell me what kind of A/D, and if possible do an A/B/C test between HD24 and JoeCo and HD24XR. If it passes the audio quality test I already have one on order...

L

The latest AD convertor chips around are much better than the offerings of a few years ago when the Alessi HD24 was first marketed. Many are of the sample rate converting type.

Quote:
I wrote and asked about possible madi implementation, but I never heard back.
Is madi in the works?

klaukholm
I was talking about Madi with Jo, and he didn't bite, but it would be easy to use one of the RME Madi to AES boxes.

Regards


Roland
Old 18th October 2009
  #19
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Plush's Avatar
Hugh wrote:
excerpted--
Quote:
Originally Posted by HughH View Post

. . . If your decision to buy the product is based on the metering then walk on by. It's only something like a four LED meter, not designed to be used for level setting, simply a presence indicator and clip indicator. Seemed to be adequate for it's intended purpose.

Hugh
Hello Hugh,

The way we would use it the metering would have to be used to judge the input level, so I also am concerned that the limited range may disqualify the product for us.

I assume that when you write that the metering "is not designed to be used for level setting. . ." that you mean that the engineer would rely on the console meters to judge too high levels, is that right?

If the JoeCo meter sensitivity is adjustable then that's a possibility. If they are not and they are being fed by an analog out, then there is the distinct possibility of a meter mismatch.

The real problem is that on the JoeCo box, the meter indication is you're either under or immediately over max. level.

Maybe when I get to test out the box, I will find that the meter implementation is better than I imagine.

Can the US importer comment on the meters please?
Old 18th October 2009
  #20
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Plushness,

Very good points on the meters and such.

In full disclosure, it would be nice if Ted officially let us know (within this thread) that Fullscale AV is the US distributor for this product and not just an end user.
At the time of this post the JoeCo Blackbox Recorder is not listed on Fullscale AV's website, but...

The US Distributor information is available on the JoeCo website.
With that said, I feel that not everyone reading this thread will click on the distribution link on JoeCo's Sales and Distribution page.

It's just good practice to let the good folks of this forum know exactly where you are coming from.

Enjoy!
Old 19th October 2009
  #21
I have seen it at 2 shows now. it looks good to me...

Be good to get a user report
Old 19th October 2009
  #22
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surflounge's Avatar
if you want more than the peak warning meters built into the JoeBox, why not add your own meters to the outputs?
Attached Thumbnails
JoeCo BlackBox Recorder at AES-joeboxmeters.jpg  
Old 19th October 2009
  #23
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Remoteness's Avatar
That Wohler meter rack you're showing is more expensive than the BlackBox Recorder.
Retail on the LM53-24 is $4,445.00 USD.

That's a fair amount of bread to outfit you're 24 or 48 track rig with Wohler meters.

In any event, that box was not designed to be a stand alone recorder.
It's meant to be patched to the inserts of your live sound desk.

You got to drop the extra coin if you want (or need) to use that device in a different capacity.
Old 19th October 2009
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
In any event, that box was not designed to be a stand alone recorder.
.
why not?
hide and watch me
Old 19th October 2009
  #25
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Remoteness's Avatar
Well, for one thing it doesn't have real meters.
What about punch ins; can you punch in on this baby?
Like I said, above, it's meant to be patched into the inserts of your live sound desk.
No editing and such...

I don't know; the Product Summary kind of says it all; doesn't it?

Hey, don't get me wrong; I think this recorder rawks.
IMO, there's a great need for this kind of device and I like it much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by surflounge View Post
why not?
hide and watch me
Old 20th October 2009
  #26
Gear Head
 

O.T.

Hey Steve,

What a Cool Website:

Enter Aura Sonic Location Recording

John
Old 20th October 2009
  #27
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surflounge's Avatar
it's for TRACKING not mixing
Old 20th October 2009
  #28
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Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezjohn View Post
Hey Steve,

What a Cool Website:

Enter Aura Sonic Location Recording

John
Thanks!

What's even cooler is surflounge's website.
Very cool Website; seriously cool facilities with an awesome view!

Quote:
Originally Posted by surflounge View Post
it's for TRACKING not mixing
I see you read the Product Summary. Well done!

And, yet another reason why it's not a stand alone recorder.
You can only track with it; your words, not mine.
Stand alone recorders can do it all.
That is why they stand alone.
Old 20th October 2009
  #29
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Marlan's Avatar
 

Saw one in action the other day. Cool as balls!
Old 20th October 2009
  #30
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Remoteness's Avatar
Tell us more Marlan.
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