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DIGI 002 and Live Recording...
Old 5th July 2005
  #1
Gear Nut
 
heartsoffire's Avatar
 

Talking DIGI 002 and Live Recording...

Has anyone tried to use the DIGI 002 with the integrated control surface for live recording and FOH mixing at the same?

I was thinking about buying one for small coffee house type recordings (4-6 channels), but am concerned about latency.

I'd be using it in standalone mode to a hard drive.

Thanks for any advice you can provide me...

Mark
Old 5th July 2005
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Jamz's Avatar
FWIW I've used my 002 with a G4 867mhz laptop for some remote work. Usually choir recitals (up to 75 people) or small ensemble performances. 7 tracks at once no problem. I don't use plug-ins while recording either.

002 with my G5 iMac to record bands at rehearsal rooms. up to 12 tracks in record at once. No problem.

Just keep the 002 on low latency mode when overdubbing.
Old 5th July 2005
  #3
Gear Nut
 
heartsoffire's Avatar
 

latency...

My concern about latency is during the performance. Is it noticeable when the singer sings that the mouth is moving and the sound is slightly off (like a badly produced B-movie)?
Old 5th July 2005
  #4
Gear Nut
 
heartsoffire's Avatar
 

Along the same thread, is this a good solution? Is there a better one or equally as good, but cheaper for me?

I'm wanting to provide a monitoring system for the artists, FOH speakers, moderate reverb for performance (not recording), and recording in order to produce a "live album."

Since I'm already using Protools, this seemed to be a logical solution.

Any better ideas?

Thanks again!

Mark
Old 6th July 2005
  #5
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Hi there. I think that your best shot would be getting the 002R, a power amp and an analog mixer...MackieCFX... with fxs!? That way, you can monitor without latency and save about $500 bucks. I had recorded up to 14 tracks in a remote live situation with a G4 laptop 550Mhz

Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsoffire
My concern about latency is during the performance. Is it noticeable when the singer sings that the mouth is moving and the sound is slightly off (like a badly produced B-movie)?
I personally do not think that latency is a problem with small buffer sizes. Maybe all you need is an external hardware Revb, so you do not pressure the computer so much!?
Good luck.............Joaquin.
Old 6th July 2005
  #6
Gear Nut
 
heartsoffire's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joaquin
Hi there. I think that your best shot would be getting the 002R, a power amp and an analog mixer...MackieCFX... with fxs!? That way, you can monitor without latency and save about $500 bucks. I had recorded up to 14 tracks in a remote live situation with a G4 laptop 550Mhz

I personally do not think that latency is a problem with small buffer sizes. Maybe all you need is an external hardware Revb, so you do not pressure the computer so much!?
Good luck.............Joaquin.
Hmm. I already own a 002R, a power amp, and 16x4 mixer. Fact is, I also own an ADAT, but I can't seem to get the mixer to send anything to the ADAT. So, in light of my ignorance, I planned on spending a couple grand to get a 002 that I can always take on the road with me and leave the 002R in the rack. You're helping me save some money. It would be a lot cheaper for me to buy a couple good travel cases!

Simply put, I want to be able to record (to ADAT or to ProTools) about 6 to 8 tracks on separate channels so that I can remix in ProTools and add some overdubs in the studio. I know that this can't be that hard, but I guess I'm pretty stupid.

Thanks for the good advice. Now, can someone help me figure out what I'm doing wrong? Or said another way, how can I take my live rig setup and send it to ADAT or to ProTools from my mixer? Again, the mixer is a 16x4 with 6 aux sends, 4 aux returns, and inserts on all channels. I've tried sending a signal from the send to a channel on the ADAT- nothing.

I want to be able to have a live stereo sound, not mono.

Thanks!

Mark
Old 6th July 2005
  #7
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joaquin's Avatar
 

you should not have a problem. Just use the insert's out from your console, plug in just the Tip of the plug, so you do not interrupt the signal. usually Mixers take the signal straight out of the preamp gain, Pre-Fader, so you won't mess it with the Live tweeking or FX. From there...to the recording medium of your choice.
Quote:
I've tried sending a signal from the send to a channel on the ADAT- nothing.
I do not know why is that you can't make that happen!? Re-check your signal path...
Also...are you aware that with the ADAT conversion, you have 16 tracks available in to PT!?
Good Luck, and like Jhon Lennon said....."There's no problem ....only solutions" heh
Old 6th July 2005
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
Dickens's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsoffire
My concern about latency is during the performance. Is it noticeable when the singer sings that the mouth is moving and the sound is slightly off (like a badly produced B-movie)?
002/PT LE should be no problem. Especially, with only 4-6- tracks.
- Use low latency mode
- refrain from using plugs while recording. Especially any Waves mastering plugs on the 2 bus while recording. Placing an L2 on the master channel even when in bypass yields huge latency.
- I agree with above post...external reverb unit would be best for this purpose while recording.
Old 14th July 2005
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
Capt. Kirk's Avatar
 

adat recording

Hi Mark,

I've done this on an assortment of different mixers. Purchase 8 insert cables and use the insert location on the individual channels. This provides a signal to the adat and return to the channel. This has no latincy and also allows you to hear exactly what is going to the adat. My recomendation is to make sure that you don't run the signal as loud to the adat for live that you would in the studio, the chance of overs is much greater live. Adat/digital destortion is really ugly. If you start to put this set up together and want live assistance, feel free to call me. Check my website for phone numbers.

Kirk Thompson
www.mastermixrecording.com
Old 15th July 2005
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
wyndrock's Avatar
ditch the pt le system. after about a year, you'll understand what im talking about.

if not...you're not paying attention.
Old 15th July 2005
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Gerax's Avatar
 

Quote:
ditch the pt le system. after about a year, you'll understand what im talking about.
Care to explain a bit, please?

L.G.
Old 15th July 2005
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
wyndrock's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerax
Care to explain a bit, please?

L.G.
if youre gonna use pro tools, dont use le. get one of the real pro tools systems. that way you can advertise that youre using pro tools. thats all i care to say. good day.

Old 16th July 2005
  #13
Gear Nut
 
heartsoffire's Avatar
 

After some pondering and some decent sleep, it occured to me that I have all that I need.

My signal path will be thus:

Presonus Digimax with ADAT out to ProTools (or to my ADAT whichever is more convenient for the venue I'm recording at) and analog out from the Digimax to my mixer.

This way I get a nice signal into ProTools or ADAT from the Digimax and a latency free signal to the FOH and monitoring systems. I can also be free to use my outboard signal processing for the venue and have a clean recording.

Regarding ditching ProTools LE... I'd love to move to the HD system, if I had the cash. I'd also pick up the Digidesign Venue and be all set.

Maybe someday....

Thanks for all your advice and help. It helped.

Mark
Old 16th July 2005
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
Capt. Kirk's Avatar
 

Recording

Mark,

It sounds like you have it all figured out. I know there are alot of people that trash adat, but it fact it works pretty good. I have several different formats mentioned and I have not found any of my customers complaining. I know that Protools is a click word that alot of people are throwing around, but really where it seems to shine is in the department of editing and mixing. You were talking about tracking. If you have a convenient way of transfering without going to analog you should be fine.

Best regards,

Kirk
Old 1st August 2005
  #15
Lives for gear
 
max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyndrock
if youre gonna use pro tools, dont use le. get one of the real pro tools systems. that way you can advertise that youre using pro tools. thats all i care to say. good day.

For live recording (small coffeehouse type - 4 to 6 channels)? HD2 or HD3?
Old 2nd August 2005
  #16
Gear Nut
 
heartsoffire's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper
For live recording (small coffeehouse type - 4 to 6 channels)? HD2 or HD3?
Probably a bit overkill.

What I found was that running straight into PTLE (Digi 002 Rack) through my Presonus DigiMax 8 channel preamp worked pretty well.

I ran lightpipe to the Digi 002 and analog out to the mixer. I was able to add another couple tracks for audience affects through 2 of the preamps on the Digi 002 and used the tracks on the Digimax for vocals (2), piano (stereo), guitar (1-direct and 2 stereo), one wireless mic track (for utility needs)

Outside of some monitor bleed issues, I was pretty happy with the results. I'm able to mix with lots of control over the tracks.
Old 2nd August 2005
  #17
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joaquin's Avatar
 

I'm Glad you are content with the results!!
Old 2nd August 2005
  #18
jordan19
Guest
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyndrock
ditch the pt le system. after about a year, you'll understand what im talking about.

if not...you're not paying attention.
How ironic

I got LE exactly 1 year ago last week as a portable gig setup. Decided a couple days ago that I'd had enough.

...currently in the process of planning to switch completely over to a Motu rig. I've never worked in Digital Performer before, but I'm excited about it... seems to offer a lot more flexibility than Pro Tools in many areas.
Old 3rd August 2005
  #19
Gear Nut
 
heartsoffire's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan19
How ironic

I got LE exactly 1 year ago last week as a portable gig setup. Decided a couple days ago that I'd had enough.

...currently in the process of planning to switch completely over to a Motu rig. I've never worked in Digital Performer before, but I'm excited about it... seems to offer a lot more flexibility than Pro Tools in many areas.
Frankly, I don't believe that it's about the digital tools (i.e. ProTools or DP), it's about what outboard gear that you have and how flexible that gear is. If I didn't have a preamp that could output both analog and digital simultaneously, the results would have been different.
Old 3rd August 2005
  #20
jordan19
Guest
sure. I was primarily just referring to the film scoring capabilities of DP, (which beats the hell out of pro tools,) and some of the more flexible features of speeding up and slowing down click tracks fairly easily... and the never-ending latency with my 002 mixer setup was just a whole other issue that never failed to piss me off constantly

i could probably just stop being lazy and take the time to figure out how to work around the disadvantages. but screw it... i'm in the mood for a fresh start anyways heh

besides, the 002 mixer is an eyesore. i don't know if it was their intention to design a clunky plasticky thing with oversized edges, but that's kind of how it turned out.

it's a good thing LE gear maintains great resale value. thumbsup shouldn't lose too much money switching over to Motu
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