The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Isolated tracks...what are the sources ?
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Isolated tracks...what are the sources ?

Let's play forensic detective for a while....where are they all coming from ?

You've probably seen examples already....here's a pair:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i4em-dhtbbw

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wCFrWEWDxew

What are the sources...legitimate or stolen/copied/bootlegged ?
Original tracks..or heavy DSP extraction processing ..simple phase inversion ?

The Evidence:

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=...Y4t18nIt2_6LXD

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=...zGKA1WB0RSsKuT

Pretty impressive hey, especially the absence or presence of leakage of some tracks and not others, not to mention the clarity...and the ability to tell mic types, limiting/compression/eqing etc

The Speculation: https://www.geeksandbeats.com/2014/0...s-coming-from/

A Prime Suspect: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock...e)#Development

Another Suspect: https://www.abbeyroad.com/de-mix

More Evidence: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQUAUO...crRswoX9l_ehgg

Last edited by studer58; 1 week ago at 08:18 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
The Izotope RX8 "Music Rebalance" tool does just that, with a lot better isolation than these if you set it to highest quality setting.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo ➡️
The Izotope RX8 "Music Rebalance" tool does just that, with a lot better isolation than these if you set it to highest quality setting.
I'm highly sceptical...but supply audio proof by all means if you wish to !
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
When I first played with this feature in RX8 I was wondering who would need something like that. Now we know there is at least one usage.

That damn thing really works, like magic.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Ok...give me a tympani from "Rite of Spring" ...or just an electric bass track from a classic rock song...or a piano line from "Kind of Blue"

PS: I didn't realise there was a Fender Bass guitar played in The Doors' "Light My Fire"...thought it was always a bass pedal underneath Manzarek's keyboard. That was for live shows apparently, but for album sessions electric bass players were brought in...Larry Knechtel from The Wrecking Crew in this case. There's an acoustic guitar there also, low in the mix....

See....isolated tracks are fun !

"Light My Fire (Isolated Tracks)" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pxKpKMQ4cwc

Last edited by studer58; 1 week ago at 09:57 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Currently, Music Rebalance can separate voice, bass, percussion and all other pitched instruments as one stream. 4 separated streams in total. So, for early Beatles recordings, with very simple instrumentation, this works very well. It is not smart enough to separate individual instruments from an orchestra recording, as yet. Probably in version 2.0 it might be able to do it. Again, I only played with it but never actually used it.

With this capability, I can see EMI decides to completely re-master the Beatles early recordings. Once the voices are split, you can easily apply whatever the process to them, independently then recombine them just like what you do with any pop music production.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
It sounds like a powerful technology...with wide potential application. In the post-production/editing phase of classical and chamber (as well as rock, jazz and other) music, it seems reasonable to expect that it might tighten up our spot miking and area/sectional miking...reducing unwanted spill without the need to add more (or tighter pattern) mics ?

When you think about it, that ability alone would make it something of a welcome holy grail watershed...in the realm of concert recording !

Pretty exciting and promising development....I'm fully expecting that enthusiastic participation in this thread, once folks pick up on the implications, will push it beyond that of the current Anubis one .... !
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo ➡️
The Izotope RX8 "Music Rebalance" tool does just that, with a lot better isolation than these if you set it to highest quality setting.

The Izotope RX8 'Music Rebalance' is quite an impressive tool. It has been helpful for us.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #9
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness ➡️
The Izotope RX8 'Music Rebalance' is quite an impressive tool. It has been helpful for us.
same here...there,s a 30 day trial.

Ray
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayS ➡️
same here...there,s a 30 day trial.

Ray
Old 6 days ago
  #11
Gear Head
 
tific's Avatar
 
A lot of multi-tracks in the ecosystem are ripped from rhythm based multiplayer party game franchises like Beatmania ,Dj Hero.. Rockband.. Guitar Hero. There are 1000s of song titles released across multiple console dating back to the late 90s.Some of the content are cover versions or original licensed songs which have been simplified for gamers with guitar , drum , keyboard & turntable themed peripherals.

The file format is compressed Ogg or Mogg which is the multi track variation.You could legally rip the original content from the source & separate the files if you had some technical knowledge.


Stem separation software is amazing but there are limitations.

Virtualdj 2021 has real-time stem separation & the home version is free. Many more examples are in this topic.

K-Def crazy instruments isolation
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
DirkP's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo ➡️
When I first played with this feature in RX8 I was wondering who would need something like that. Now we know there is at least one usage.

That damn thing really works, like magic.
I hardly doubt that RX8 or any other software could isolate tracks like the Fender bass in Light My Fire as on the above posted YT link. These - and many others I've listenend to - have to be sourced from the original multitracks.

I'd like such software to exist and invite anyone with Izotope RX8 software to isolate for example the Fender Bass and the acoustic guitar in Light My Fire with it in equal quality.
I would be very surprised and would buy it immediately.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkP ➡️
I hardly doubt that RX8 or any other software could isolate tracks like the Fender bass in Light My Fire as on the above posted YT link. These - and many others I've listenend to - have to be sourced from the original multitracks.

I'd like such software to exist and invite anyone with Izotope RX8 software to isolate for example the Fender Bass and the acoustic guitar in Light My Fire with it in equal quality.
I would be very surprised and would buy it immediately.
This seems more plausible to me as well.

The giveaway is in some of the Beatles isolated tracks linked to in the first post's collections...several of the vocals have between-verse spoken utterances which were obviously muted at mixdown time, yet are clearly audible here.

RX8 is probably very good...but I doubt it can insert random chatter not present in the official mixes !

So I think many of them are straight transfers from the multitrack...certainly those recorded post-1968
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #14
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
This seems more plausible to me as well.

The giveaway is in some of the Beatles isolated tracks linked to in the first post's collections...several of the vocals have between-verse spoken utterances which were obviously muted at mixdown time, yet are clearly audible here.

RX8 is probably very good...but I doubt it can insert random chatter not present in the official mixes !

So I think many of them are straight transfers from the multitrack...certainly those recorded post-1968
Here,s RX 8 on Voice!

Short vocal excerpt...

and no, just bass has been impossible ..for now...but i did get the voice almost totally separated from music but with some artifacts with extreme separation ....which is not the point of the plugin but easy although not politically correct to re-balance a mix that has some vocals in it ....in my defense, it's all studer58 's fault for posting this and dseetoo for replying and mine for following it up with RX8 which I use for other things

Ray
Attached Files

20210225 1831 Recording.mp3 (353.4 KB, 372 views)

20210225 1829 Recording.mp3 (158.0 KB, 361 views)

Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayS ➡️
Here,s RX 8 on Voice!

Short vocal excerpt....in my defense, it's all studer58 's fault for posting this and dseetoo for replying and mine for following it up with RX8 which I use for other things

Ray
Very impressive indeed. All's fair in love and...cleaning up !!

Diverging from the original thread (genesis of the Beatles and other solo tracks...) it would be great to hear some samples of "extreme rescue/clean-ups"....where you've been able to remove some particularly egregious background noise....or extract usable signal from a seemingly 'lost cause' source ?
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
Very impressive indeed. All's fair in love and...cleaning up !!

Diverging from the original thread (genesis of the Beatles and other solo tracks...) it would be great to hear some samples of "extreme rescue/clean-ups"....where you've been able to remove some particularly egregious background noise....or extract usable signal from a seemingly 'lost cause' source ?

Something I did from a 78RPM record
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo ➡️
Something I did from a 78RPM record
There's no doubt that it's hit the hiss and scratches with an atomic bomb...but it's gone too far into antiseptic and artifact territory too. The timbre of both instruments have morphed into caricatures, with lost detail and a 'glue-like molasses texture'.

It reminds me of the early days of over-enthusiastic digital noise removal...before the practitioners found the sweet spot of maintaining original instrumental and voice quality, while reducing the worst of the intrusive noise.

Mind you, the original captured instrumental quality here was nothing great to begin with...it sounds like a horn/funnel recording direct to shellac, very mid-heavy ! I could tolerate a modicum of the original hiss and scratch, if it bought back some of the original texture too.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #18
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
Very impressive indeed. All's fair in love and...cleaning up !!

Diverging from the original thread (genesis of the Beatles and other solo tracks...) it would be great to hear some samples of "extreme rescue/clean-ups"....where you've been able to remove some particularly egregious background noise....or extract usable signal from a seemingly 'lost cause' source ?
removed banging noises....

Ray
Attached Files

w noise .mp3 (179.6 KB, 261 views)

no noise .mp3 (179.6 KB, 260 views)

Old 3 days ago
  #19
Lives for gear
This really is amazing stuff. Steinberg's SpectraLayers does something similar - the "free" version with Cubase 11 is limited to demixing vocals only. Still. amazing!
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayS ➡️
removed banging noises....Ray
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
There's no doubt that it's hit the hiss and scratches with an atomic bomb...but it's gone too far into antiseptic and artifact territory too. The timbre of both instruments have morphed into caricatures, with lost detail and a 'glue-like molasses texture'.

It reminds me of the early days of over-enthusiastic digital noise removal...before the practitioners found the sweet spot of maintaining original instrumental and voice quality, while reducing the worst of the intrusive noise.

Mind you, the original captured instrumental quality here was nothing great to begin with...it sounds like a horn/funnel recording direct to shellac, very mid-heavy ! I could tolerate a modicum of the original hiss and scratch, if it bought back some of the original texture too.

The original recording was made in 1917, way before any electrical recordings. Yes, you were right, the original recording was made with a big acoustic horn. There was not content whatsoever outside of 200-3000Hz, the bandwidth of an old analog telephone transmission, therefore, there was not much useful musical texture to speak of in the recording

I grew up with this particular recording of Heifetz, trying to reverse engineer his bowings and fingerings without any success due to all the noise covering the signal. RX changed all that. It was deliberately over done to serve my purpose.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo ➡️
The original recording was made in 1917, way before any electrical recordings. Yes, you were right, the original recording was made with a big acoustic horn. There was not content whatsoever outside of 200-3000Hz, the bandwidth of an old analog telephone transmission, therefore, there was not much useful musical texture to speak of in the recording

I grew up with this particular recording of Heifetz, trying to reverse engineer his bowings and fingerings without any success due to all the noise covering the signal. RX changed all that. It was deliberately over done to serve my purpose.
Great background comments Da-Hong...yes I thought you'd over-stretched it, to demonstrate the capability. I guess the next challenge for machine learning software could be to reinvent and reinstate some of the violin's curtailed harmonic information, lost by the recording and encoding technology of the era.

We can fabricate reverb environments, de-reverb overly wet recordings, so I think this sort of harmonic recreation might be around the corner...if not already available ?
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Harmonic recovery is already here. RX8 (Advanced version only) has a Spectral Recovery Module. I haven’t tried it but here’s a demo video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwgtjl24YEc
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #24
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Folkie ➡️
Harmonic recovery is already here. RX8 (Advanced version only) has a Spectral Recovery Module. I haven’t tried it but here’s a demo video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwgtjl24YEc
Yes, it's quite impressive, along with the raft of other fixes it can accomplish ie: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bWOyUFt6oL4

I'd like to see Da-Hong try a harmonic restoration job on this Heifetz violin recording, plus permitting a small drizzle of background noise... to simulate an actual recording of that era ! I wouldn't be surprised if a commercial reissue of this recording hasn't already utilised this sort of repair/restore tech ?
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 54 views: 7437
Avatar for kywoman
kywoman 8th December 2016
replies: 128 views: 18168
Avatar for msmucr
msmucr 19th December 2020
replies: 204 views: 6507
Avatar for Ari-M.
Ari-M. 12 hours ago
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump