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Tips for location dialogue recording - Youtube
Old 1 week ago
  #1
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Tips for location dialogue recording - Youtube

Hey hey,


I'm going to be producing a YouTube channel with a friend and we will be recording video at a luthier shop discussing repairs and such.

I'm planning on using a very portable rig for audio capture:

Zoom H6 and a Beyerdynamic MC930 (hypercardiod sdc). From what I understand this should be a good choice for an indoor space (as opposed to a shotgun) but I'm open to using either (he has a shotgun, not sure what make and model).

I'd be placing the mic on a stand, off-screen but as close as possible and likely near the camera where he will be looking as he speaks to get the most dialogue to room ratio for static shots, and attached to the camera for dynamic shots (I'll also be helping him film - learning all sorts of things). I may be able to record directly to the camera, but figured if I can do both, redundancy is a good thing, hence the H6.

I also have a gobo I could bring, or more likely, several audimute sound blankets in case the room proves to be a bit too reflective (didn't seem like an issue when I did a site visit, but I know once a mic is on it may be much more apparent).

I have many other mics and a larger, higher quality mobile rig for recording concerts (Motu 828es, 8x Daking pres, plenty of typical live sound reinforcement dynamics etc.) which I will bring in for segments where we are miking up guitars or amps to "demo" instruments, but for the narrative and dialogue portions I would hope to lean on the above setup.

Any tips from those with experience in this type of thing? My background is mostly live sound and some band recording, so this will be a little new for me. Anything obviously wrong with this approach? Things I might not be considering? How would you approach this?

EDIT: Oh, forgot to mention I will be using Beyer DT770 headphones to monitor while I'm capturing audio so I will be able to assess issues with the room as they arise (hopefully).
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
You've clearly thought through the recording scenario well..and all your proposals appear sound and solid.

You might want to get a pair of functional (not necessarily expensive) lavalier shirt front mics, to either supplement or replace your beyerdynamic mc930. These could be recorded directly to your H6. These will give you a more direct, less roomy sound than the beyerdynamic.

Alternatively aim for very tight shots which allow you to get your stand mic very close....either above head height pointing down or waist/chest height pointing up. I think you'll be surprised (despite use of goboes, room treatment) how little regular mic distance you can get away with, before the "room starts to intrude"....hence the lavalier suggestion.

If you're wanting 2 'talking heads' consider the alternative of attaching a lavalier to a mobile phone in a back pocket, and recording to that. Most phones are perfectly good recorders for your intended purpose...the Rode Lav series are respectable performers for this task. You'll need to sync the voice track(s) in post...but you'll have your on-camera mic to serve as the reference for that.

Here's an example of a useful kit: https://www.videoguys.com.au/deal-zo...eid=c8cb666f2c

A single MC930, while probably suitable for 1 subject, is unlikely to be able to successfully usable for 2 speakers (unless you're going to be boom poling)...hence the Lav mic suggestion, for at least one subject if not both.

Lav mics for dialogue are a huge load off your mind...and you'll have plenty of other stuff to keep you occupied !

Last edited by studer58; 1 week ago at 03:58 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #3
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tourtelot's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I had never thought of using a phone as a remote dialog recorder. Great idea!

D.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
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tourtelot's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
BTW, will a phone power a typical lav or would you need to use some sort of adapter/power kludge?

D.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #5
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Thanks, studer. All good points. It's just a single host, so I will try to get away with a single sdc, but will keep a lav in mind as an option if the room proves to be too prominent in the recording.

Much appreciated!
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot ➡️
BTW, will a phone power a typical lav or would you need to use some sort of adapter/power kludge?

D.
Yep, a phone will typically supply a small voltage (I think it’s 1.5v DC) via the extra ‘ring’ on a 3.5mm TRRS jack, which is generally sufficient for a lav mic. In the link below are additional dongles which allow you to P48 power a regular mic via 9v battery. The iRig gear does this, allowing you to even run a handheld ‘reporters’ mic into your smartphone if you wish. The Rode SmartLav+ is a worthy contender, and you get a handy recording app to give great input level indication.

Lots of folks have an outdated cellphone in the office drawer...the one you keep meaning to take down your local electronics recycling depot...harness its inherent recording power instead, sync the capture in post later !

https://www.smartphonefilmpro.com/15...ne-filmmaking/

However, headaches ahead if you’re expecting any sort of ‘standard’ to apply to TRRS connections...it seems to be prone to multiple implementations !

https://ko.rode.com/blog/all/a-guide...-mobile-device

Especially check the ‘PDA/mobile phones’ section of the following:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phone_connector_(audio)

Aren’t standards wonderful...so many of ‘em !

Last edited by studer58; 1 week ago at 12:30 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Mic up the interviewer if he's asking questions. 'No.. I won't be using my own questions' - is a phrase soundguys hear so often, then afterwards you still hear questions being off-mic. So, lessons learned, I always mic up the interviewer or boom the questions.

A boom is still the best solution, you'll be so much more flexible in all positions and scenes. But when booming, the mic needs a shockmount to attenuate low frequencies from handling. If the mic has a Low cut filter, I'd use it.
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
The OP mentions static shots: don't forget for these it is so easy to get your hypercardioid mic in very close (whether using a handheld boom or a stand with boom arm) and in the frame, and mask out afterwards. As long as it isn't in the way of the subject and you don't forget to get a bit of footage (with same white balance, exposure etc.) without the offending mic, it is a doddle.

But I'm unclear: is the friend the camera operator or the luthier? If the former and you are only doing sound, then boom everything yourself and avoid the stand (unless very long static shots) and, more to the point, any on-camera mic (nasty, and won't match well with the locked-off/boom shots).

If you are the camera operator too and are really stuck with no crew, then I'd go for a lav mic (or two, if there is an interviewer). If at close range (which this all sounds) then a cheap and perfectly workable solution would be a Rode Wireless Go (or two), either with an additional lav plugged in or not (it has its own capsule), and the receiver(s) straight into your camera (if reasonable) or into your H6 and then camera.

Cheers,

Roland
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #9
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tourtelot's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolksoundman9 ➡️
easy to get your hypercardioid mic in very close (whether using a handheld boom or a stand with boom arm) and in the frame, and mask out afterwards.
This is certainly a possibility but if I'm not mistaken, this a still a fairly complicated technique and while it has been used on Hollywood films and maybe some TV, it is not something I would expect to be in place for a small industrial.

I was never much of an "industrial" guy although a lot of my cohorts were, and it seems that even if overheads can be used, and sound great, most producers want to "lav 'em up". There were lots of stories about some less experienced re-res not knowing how to handle the "split track" stuff but I think the years have made that not such an issue.

If it were me, and I had the gear, I'd be prepared to put lavs on BOTH (quick overlaps become less of a problem with both folks on mic) but I'd go for overheads if the frame and the room allow. It's called being prepared. All that being said, I wouldn't put lavs on them, if the overhead sounded good, prophylactically. I always thought that was a dumb idea. Some producers insisted but I would always have a discussion. Then again, I'd always remember that I was working for them.

Interviews are easy. Sit-downs don't even need to have the boom held. Clamp them in a stand with some cheap holder (Amazon) and sit down and have a cuppa.

As always, just my $.02.

D.
Old 1 week ago
  #10
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Ah, I see I didn't explain the setup clearly. My apologies.

It's a one-man show and I'm the one-man crew, essentially. I'll be helping film and also handling audio (audio being my forte, film being fairly new to me). This isn't a paid gig, it's something we both want to do together and I view it as a learning opportunity and a chance to work on a cool project with a friend.

Thus, the plan is having a camera (or two) in static shots, maybe a wide front angle of the bench and a slim phone as an overhead for the bench, and then a dynamic camera operated by yours truly for some action and movement around the subject.

I can probably get the SDC on a boom fairly close (the under the waist pointing up idea worked really well on a little test I did on myself yesterday, so thanks for that) or even just on the static wide camera (depending on how close I can get it). I don't own lavs, but would consider getting one if it makes sense after we do some testing in the room.

FWIW I hate lavs with a passion from my live sound days. Always sounded and worked better to use a mic on a stand right up on the speaker if the client allowed for it. I guess, now, we are the clients and my first instinct is that I don't want mics in frame lol. Talk about a change in perspective.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #11
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tourtelot's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjuxtable ➡️
I guess, now, we are the clients and my first instinct is that I don't want mics in frame lol. Talk about a change in perspective.
So, looking through the camera are we now?

One of the great joys in my life, sincerely, was getting away from recording anything that involved a camera. I guess that is all changing back these days and may well continue to be a "thing" in the process of recording live music events. Sigh.

D.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #12
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot ➡️
This is certainly a possibility but if I'm not mistaken, this a still a fairly complicated technique and while it has been used on Hollywood films and maybe some TV, it is not something I would expect to be in place for a small industrial.
D.
Doug,

As I said - not misleadingly - this is a doddle for static shots. You simply put the footage in the timeline with the mic in it, and the footage w/o the mic in a video track below it (which can be a repeated very short clip). Cut out the mic in the top video track, and the background without it will then appear. You can do this in basic amateur NLEs like Vegas - now Magix - MovieStudio. I often do it and I'm no Hollywood pro!

R
Old 1 week ago
  #13
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tourtelot's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Okay. I just don't know enough about that.

Pretty cool that some hi-end shows are matting out the boom in whole scenes because it is cheaper to do that than to do ADR. I would be happy if it put all the radio mic companies to making other devices. No offense to my friends at Lectrosonics. I hated everything about wireless mics and still dream of the old days; one camera, one mic overhead. Scripted, rehearsed, rehearsed again and shot. Never goin' back are we?

I worked sound utility on a movie with a great Hollywood soundman, Jim Webb, and we were sitting in the camera truck one afternoon; he never left the truck to work, cabled out to the set for every scene.

He looked over at me and shook his head. "Doug" he said, "They just don't make movies like they used to, do they?"

I thought to myself, probably 1983 or so, I will NEVER utter those words. It so says that you are old. When I started saying that the old days were better, I retired from the movie business. Done!

D.

Oh, and the old days WERE better.
Old 1 week ago
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
You really cant beat the sound of a well placed boom and proper microphone.
Radios have improved immensely in the past 20 yrs, but perspective eludes them, so it all sounds ADR now even if it is real (ish)
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot ➡️
I had never thought of using a phone as a remote dialog recorder. Great idea!

D.
Pssst...hey Doug, I think Rode overheard you... and just came out with a new toy for you !

https://rode.com/microphones/wireless/wirelessgoii
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