Quote:
Originally Posted by
studer58
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deedeeyeah,
I'm pretty sure your stated legislated spl levels pertain to the output of your PA system...while a lot of these problems begin on the stage, in the levels generated by (and seen as normal by) the bands themselves.
It would be interesting to see the stage+monitor level measurement alone...with FOH turned off...of some of these overloud bands ?
Orchestral peaks might exceed 100dBA for brief (less than 20 seconds) periods, but you're surely not suggesting these (uncompressed, unamplified) crescendos represent a threat to hearing for audiences ?
To be able to do that, the percussionist's arms would fatigue, and the brass players lips also, if they tried to maintain the overloud average spl which a 4 piece rock band with monitor wedges can attain with ease...even without a PA reinforcing them.
You're not comparing apples with apples, just being provocative and misleading....of the 2 types of ensemble mentioned here, which is more likely to result in a temporary threshold shift in hearing (or much worse) for an audience ? The majority of orchestral instruments don't have line-array or horn-loaded propagation characteristics !
you are mistaken...
i carry a measurement rig with me on amplified, semi-amplified and non-amplified shows, regardless of genre and situation and keep it running as one of its mics often doubles as .1 pickup and i therefore guess i can claim to have a pretty clear understanding of spl levels (while i suspect you don't )...
...so pls stop false accusations of me being provocative or misleading!
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i can assure you that with orchestras getting bigger over the centuries and most modern instruments projecting far better than historic instruments, peaks above the conductor's head * can reach amazingly high levels: we're talking about 120dBa peak
but of course there (mostly) is a massive difference between
continous vs
peak levels!
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now how loud is loud? - depends on a multiple factors but to answer your question about levels with the pa turned off (or behind the pa/on stage): at the monitor desk, i've been measuring levels (far) above 110dBA leq/1h so add 6-12dB for peaks and you get an idea about 'loud stages'! **
i have no idea how one can physically and mentally (and repeatedly) withstand these assaults but although rather toxic, as long as one gets the lead vocals above the noise, high stage levels aren't much of an issue (for the foh tech) on large festivals/outdoor shows - indoors, they are indeed a problem, certainly not fun and can ruin things in an instant.
luckily, many bands have been switching to in-ears, plexi around the drums and guitars feeding into speaker-emulation devices so levels in general have come down...
...although some idiots now use an entire row of wedges at the lip of the stage and sidefills just for the 'feel' of it
no regulation will keep them from being stupid...
...but then, some world-renowned soloists in classical also cannot adapt their technique and sing ancient music with ugly vibrato: i find this as disturbing as high levels on some rock shows - in both cases, i would want my money back!
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* i'd never wanna sit in front of trumpets (or in the first five rows) either
** the worst i've ever experienced was on tour with anthrax (or was it slayer?) in the late 90's when levels were approaching 120dBA...
...and then there was this soundcheck with ac/dc: phil rudd let me sit in on his drum kit for three songs but i already (almost) collapsed when hitting the kick drum for the first time...
...but the guitars then almost ripped off my head! (i threw up when i left the stage)