https://open.spotify.com/album/1mti8...QVWcS9j8QAycnA


WOW, best i heard this week for sure.....lovely ....the low end on the cello if phenomenal....I liked both trios and sonatinas....well done...really...

thx

Ray

Kevin, any pics of the sessions, mic placement etc?

A lovely recording of the Czerny, thanks for posting! But we’re still as far away as ever from the OP’s 8 foot drop ceilings…

My suggestion:

It’s a legitimate project to record a piano in a living room - Horowitz did it after all, with Carnegie Hall literally around the corner and, I would imagine, a more or less unlimited production budget. And once you add in the video element, it has an intimacy that’s missing in a more formal performance space.

So follow up on this approach, maybe see if you can find some other living room recordings that you both like and see how they were engineered.

But at the same time, don’t forget that with a grand piano it takes a good 2-3m for the sound to fully develop, and that a large part of what you hear as the “piano sound” is actually sound reflected from the room.

So, alongside the living room recordings, consider scouting for a local hall or a church with a decent piano that won’t break the bank and do a test recording there. If the pianist has an affiliation with a music school, then you may already have a suitable venue. Like this - in my view - you’ll have a better chance of valorising the 100s of hours of work that she has put in to learn the repertoire.

As ever, YMMV - and for the record I note that the original Youtube comments are uniformly positive about the engineering, including:

“One of the best sounding video on YouTube” and “I love the music, your playing, and I love the sound! […] Make this sound your future reference, and don't fall for the mics-in-the-ceiling BS that has infected and RUINED almost all classical recordings for the last 40 years.” ;-)

A pair of Sennheiser Mkh80/MKH800 p48 on the used market.
Hard to find but excellent in almost all situation. With all the usual figures available, it's not so much money if you compare with a pair of Schoeps with mk2 + another pair.

these 2 posts pretty much sum it up


I

Beautiful recordings .....any jpgs?

thank you for posting

I

In that situation, I'd be inclined to remove the lid on recording days. As things stand, you've got mics mere inches away from the soundboard, stuffed under a lid on the half stick.

As recommended here I tried Plush's tip for putting mic at the edge of the piano rim. Fantastic tip imo. Though I'm no expert the sound was great.

Have also used AEA R88 ribbon to great effect on a brightish piano. Possibly it agrees with the room.

Nope. full stick. About 5" above the strings. Music stand removed. I wanted to take the lid off, but she said no. It is heavy and just the two of us.

Hélène Grimaud? Love her! Would be nice to have a living room (ballroom, music room) big enough for a D.

Sound wise, how does the Sonosax compare to a Sound Devices MixPre2? I don't often need portability, but want a top sounding interface.

Thank you. I definitely preferred the Sonatinas in many ways!

I ran the comment by her on string flattening and hammers. "New hammers?" "what do you mean? For my piano???????". Yes, pianists are reluctant to have things changed! Well, I planted the seed. I may remind her the hammers are 45 years old and do get some use.

I will check out the Ribbon madness thread, thanks.

I have a 6'6" old English piano in a small room. It's nearly as bright as your recording! My favourite mics for it are a pair of SE Rupert Neve ribbons, set to look over the rim in the waist of the piano, perpendicular to the lid at full stick.

Anything we could listen to?

Ray

I'm sure someone somewhere in this thread must've suggested the Schoeps CMC6 amplifiers with MK21 "wide cardioid" capsules. I would like to second that suggestion, wholeheartedly.

These are, by far, my "go to" mic's for situations like the one you describe; and not only are they well within your stated budget, but you will never outgrow them and will likely be able to sell them in some future time for more than you bought them for.

Get a matched pair with shockmounts. Put them on a T-Bar that can extend at least somewhere between 30 - 50 cm. Experiment with different placements - from the tail, or in the crook, just outside the rim, &c. If the lid is on, height is an extremely important variable.

Yes, have been suggested. In my listening, the Gefel and Josephson omnis with Gefel capsule did sound a bit more musical to me, at a steep premium. They are my favorites so far, but I'm not done considering more mics. The Schoeps is looking like a bargain in comparison. Interchangeable capsules and amplifiers on them and DPA are very attractive for additional recording needs. I like the sound and price of Schoeps over DPA so far.

Oh, great, another contender! Thanks, that does look interesting too. I do love the sound of ribbons. The thing about the rim location is more of an audience perspective than pianist perspective having bass to the left and treble to the right that I get with mics inside.

You don't. You pull back, and you mike the room. If the room isn't any good, you get a better room. Nobody really wants to have their head inside a piano or to have a piano that is fifty feet wide and wraps around the room (except maybe Glenn Gould).
--scott

Traditionally this is certainly true, and IMHO true for all classical instruments.
However, tastes are always changing, and the use of close-mic'ing in popular music, and the use of samples in music, and the lack of attendance at classical concerts, etc., may be influencing a growing acceptance of the close-mic'd sound, even on grand piano. (Not saying that's my preference.)
Just my 2c. Good luck.

i disagree: one does not have to pull back mics to get terrific sound - but of course close mics need processing...

Oh yeah... if you're stuck in that room.. you might consider tail mikes. You'll still need to add some fake reverb or some other room sound, but if you use cardioids they won't be super-boxy sounding and they won't give you all the clanging and thumping that you get up close.
--scott

it takes a bit more than adding a bit of echo...

... but benefits are indeed that one record a grand piano even in a rather smallish room; in large rooms, it helps to keep out bleed, noise and room sound.

besides, it allows for a very nuanced sound, especially on romantic repertoire...

What else do you do ? EQ, dynamics and/or transients processing, ... ?

someone else recently asked me the same thing and suggested to start a new thread...

anyway: if not sticking to a more modern soundfield, i'll do anything which leads to a sound as if there would be some distance between the piano and the mics - eq to cut resonances, counterbalance proximity effects plus a shelving filter to mimic hf attenuation over distance, comp/lim to keep the dynamics and transients reasonable, expander to keep down less important sound/resonance, efx (early reflections, medium room and large hall, all of which get filtered and maybe get a comp as well), occasionally a dynamic eq but i do not recall using a transient designer.

since i mostly track/mix with my digital desk (and some digital outboard), i get a pretty clear idea about the result already on location.

favourite mics are mk21's for 'mains' and mk2 (plus a steep lpf) for .1 or then a trio of tlm170r's but there are too many mics i've been using for piano to mention here - when recording solo piano, i add mics for a 'side view' of the instrument and of course there's (at least) one pair of ambis which may make using efx unnecessary (or at least to some degree - in any case i keep ambient tracks, and be it just for comparison).

Top sounding 'interface' => Sonosax. Sonosax is really smooth!

But that may not be the end of the story. The MixPre2's advantage - for me - is more it's 32-bit float implementation - making high dynamic range material much less risky for the novice/intermediate recordist. It will allow you to not have to worry much about gain so you can focus on mic selection and placement. Next to the cost of the Sonosax a MixPre2 is almost free.


So my advice is to get both.

Ray H.

DISCLAIMER: I am a musician.

A bit over budget perhaps: https://www.audiotechnology.com/news...-108-key-piano

I have not used the Sony extended-response microphones. However, I have used the extended-response microphones from Schoeps and Sennheiser but in both cases they sounded much worse to my ears than the conventional sub-20kc versions. So I am very skeptical about the benefit of reproducing ultrasonics.
--scott

Piano described as an "immense cacophony of harmonics and high frequency overtones..."

Is this a good thing?

Elsewhere on the site I heard two recordings, one using the sony 100 onmis and the Josephson omnis. The Sony was very competent, but the Josephson had the magic.

If it's written in the score, and intended to be played that way....it must be ?