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Pipe organ recording equipment and technique
Old 15th August 2020 | Show parent
  #91
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Allison ➡️
Jake Purches made a wonderful recording, which I am listening to now
Indeed. I was there for the recce and test recording/video with Jake and the organist (Jean-Paul Imbert) in 2017, although not for the recording proper.

Thinking of vaults, for those not familiar here's a close-up I took from clerestory level of the nave vault at St Etienne looking towards the organ (i.e. west): this vault - a Romanesque forerunner of Gothic sexpartite ribbed vault - is an addition of the 1120s, to a church of the 1060s/70s. Also, I've attached photos of the gallery half-vaults (primary: 1060s/70s), which add their own flavour to the acoustic, and, while we are at it, the organ reservoirs, which are neatly tucked away in the SW tower. Sorry if this is continuing to stray from the OP!

Cheers,

Roland
Attached Thumbnails
Pipe organ recording equipment and technique-_rol4305-lo-res.jpg   Pipe organ recording equipment and technique-_rol4314-lo-res.jpg   Pipe organ recording equipment and technique-_rol4321-lo-res.jpg  
Old 15th August 2020 | Show parent
  #92
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Organist ➡️
Thanks for your kind replies.

I go off topic, and ask if anyone can trace the type and configuration of microphones in this recording: https://youtu.be/w-6Fo6bWkJ4

It's a record I've always loved, and in my hi fi, it sounds beautifully good. It is an positive example for me, of a chamber music sound extremely good.
Apparently the recording engineer was Pietro Mosetti Casaretto who seems to have done quite a lot of work.

https://www.allmusic.com/artist/piet...o-mn0001639864

Perhaps you can get in touch with him.
Old 16th August 2020 | Show parent
  #93
Gear Maniac
 
Simmosonic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolksoundman9 ➡️
Sorry if this is continuing to stray from the OP!
It’s very informative; I’m not the OP but I’m definitely appreciating it.
Old 16th August 2020 | Show parent
  #94
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmosonic ➡️
It’s very informative; I’m not the OP but I’m definitely appreciating it.
Well thanks Greg. I had thought of starting a more architectural thread, but I think that would be too vague, so will continue to interject on such matters (with my day-job hat on) when they pop up!

Cheers,

Roland
Old 6 days ago
  #95
Here for the gear
 
Good morning.
I resume this thread to ask for some information and your help.
I bought the microphones and audio interface for a few months already, but the latest health restrictions of the last few months have prevented me from making recordings.

In the next few weeks I will finally be able to make some recordings.
In previous posts I've had tons of great advice and thank you all for that.

I intend to start from 6 meters away from the reeds, 3.50 meters high, omni spaced from 50 cm.
With this configuration I will try from time to time to change the distances (height, length, mics spacing) to check which solution will sound better.
I will set the levels with a value of -10db with full organ.
I use Reaper for recording and post production.

But I would need your help for post production with Reaper, for the points that I will list below.

1) The organ that I will record has a fairly noisy motor fan. In addition to the bellow wind noise (which is actually tolerable), there is a low frequency noise of the motor itself.
My idea would be to "equalize" the first few "silence" seconds of the tracks, lowering only the level of the low frequencies. This would only happen in the first few seconds of silence before the music starts. I ask you if that's the right way to go, and how to do it with Reaper.
Some organ CDs have the beginning of all tracks with digital silence and an envelope of background noise until the moment the music starts. I don't like this solution, I would prefer that you start with digital silence/envelope only in the first track, and keep the background noise between the end of the track and the beginning of the next track.
So I would like to do this with the piece I will record, but I would also like to eliminate a portion of low frequencies in the background noise, but leave the noise of the wind.

2) I usually record a piece enterely, but for various needs, I may need to record a piece in different sections and then paste it.
In some organ discs I can clearly perceive the moment when a cut part has been joined to another, because when the new part is played, the reverberation of the previous part is cut off.
This effect is horrifying to my ears.

How can this problem be overcome?

I thought that maybe you can create an artificial reverb only in the tail of the piece to be joined to the next, so that the ear perceives a continuity between two pasted sections.
This however requires "crossfading" experience, etc. and i have no idea how to do it with reaper.
Can you help me?
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #96
Lives for gear
 
kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Organist ➡️

1) The organ that I will record has a fairly noisy motor fan. In addition to the bellow wind noise (which is actually tolerable), there is a low frequency noise of the motor itself.
My idea would be to "equalize" the first few "silence" seconds of the tracks, lowering only the level of the low frequencies. This would only happen in the first few seconds of silence before the music starts. I ask you if that's the right way to go, and how to do it with Reaper.
Some organ CDs have the beginning of all tracks with digital silence and an envelope of background noise until the moment the music starts. I don't like this solution, I would prefer that you start with digital silence/envelope only in the first track, and keep the background noise between the end of the track and the beginning of the next track.
So I would like to do this with the piece I will record, but I would also like to eliminate a portion of low frequencies in the background noise, but leave the noise of the wind.
Look at the spectrum of the motor noise. It is likely a limited number of sharp peaks that can be cut out with a notch filter. Notch the motor out, leave everything else. If you have a tool that lets you see the spectrum, you can use that. Otherwise you will need good monitors with accurate low end so you can tell what is really going on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Organist ➡️
2) I usually record a piece enterely, but for various needs, I may need to record a piece in different sections and then paste it.
In some organ discs I can clearly perceive the moment when a cut part has been joined to another, because when the new part is played, the reverberation of the previous part is cut off.
This effect is horrifying to my ears.

How can this problem be overcome?

I thought that maybe you can create an artificial reverb only in the tail of the piece to be joined to the next, so that the ear perceives a continuity between two pasted sections.
This however requires "crossfading" experience, etc. and i have no idea how to do it with reaper.
Can you help me?
Start playing a bar or so before the point where you are going to cut, so that when you make the cut, the reverb from the tail of the last bit is present there.

Cut at the beginning of the note or in the middle of the note, never at the end of the note.

I did an article in the 2013 issue of Recording about basic editing philosophy, called "How to Edit." If you email Recording they can probably sell you a back issue.
--scott
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #97
Gear Guru
 
🎧 5 years
besides notching, i've been using frequency dependent expanders to keep unwanted noise low - i find results much nicer that 'digital silence'...
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #98
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by kludgeaudio ➡️
If you have a tool that lets you see the spectrum, you can use that. Otherwise you will need good monitors with accurate low end so you can tell what is really going on.
I 've used this recently with positive results as an FX in reaper https://accusonus.com/products/audio...-noise-remover. It can be fully automated for just what you need to do...click FX tab in reaper input strip BUT, reaper has an excellent EQ: reaEq. again select fx tab in input strip then "add".....it will also let you see the RTA /spectrum of the room /organ noise ....use both wisely....can also be fully automated...... Click "A"in the input strip..

On the second point ....Reaper has automatic xfades and unless you cut at the wrong spot (follow kludgeaudio's instructions) you should be ok... the xfade tool is an integral part of the reaper toolbar .and you could use this https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=122267

good luck with the project

Ray
Old 5 days ago
  #99
Lives for gear
 
jimjazzdad's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I have found the ReaFir plug in (comes with Reaper) quite useful for eliminating 'constant' background noise in a recording. I have used it successfully with amplifier hum and I am certain it would work for organ blower noise too. Of course Izotope RX handles these things very well too, but at a price. And yes, Scott's advice to start the re-take a bar earlier is spot-on.
Old 5 days ago
  #100
Lives for gear
 
voltronic's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Reaper's included ReaEQ is very useful, but if you want to go next-level, try ReEQ:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=213501

As far as the steady-state noise issue, if you encounter this frequently then iZotope RX Standard is very well worth it. Spectral Denoise is just ridiculously good at what it does. Note that this module is not included in the basic-level Elements version; you must buy Standard or Advanced.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #101
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
As jimjazzdad says, ReaFIR is an easy to use but powerful tool built into Reaper as an effect...I recommend using that to minimise the annoying aspects of the blower fan. Don't hit it with a sledgehammer...use a light touch, just to diminish, rather than eliminate

Be sure to download the free Reaper user manual from the company's website....it has good tips on using ReaFIR....and also explore the very helpful YouTube tutorial videos on this effect by 'Reaper Mania' (Kenny Gioia) and 'The Reaper Blog'. These should guide you significantly. They'll also help you with the cross fades...

I advise against pre-determining that it's only one part of the noise spectrum you're going to remove...you'll likely find that there's an interaction and overlap between 'annoyance bands'...so be open minded to take out whatever makes it sound better, using ears rather than theory alone.

Your idea of not inserting digital black silence between tracks is good...perhaps rather record a few seconds of background room tone, including blower noise, but reduce it by sufficient dBs so that you're using a 'conditioned room tone' between tracks, rather than either digital silence or full level background sound. Splice these 'diluted room tone segments' in between tracks, at appropriate duration lengths.

Re your editing dilemma and the loss of reverb tails....there's no reason why you have to do your edits during silences or ends of movements. You can just as effectively make edits during louder parts....which will substantially 'cover your tracks' as far as not exposing those reverb tails, because there'll be playing to cover it. So, when recording your repair patches, plan the segments so they span actual playing...rather than beginning and ending with natural musical rests.

When you're inserting these patches, there's a very handy 'nudge' feature, when you right click on the inserted audio fragment. You can then slide or rock it left or right by milliseconds (or fractions thereof) until it sounds perfect....
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