The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Idling engine sound in church
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Idling engine sound in church

I have an organ CD-recording this evening in a church. Nearby there are trams passing and a bus station is located just at the entrance. I did a test recording and the sound of their idling engines busses can be removed with steep HP filter at 70 Hz. I prefer to keep the low end intact and to record after midnight. The client insists on recording during day. How would you solve this?
Old 1 week ago
  #2
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OHBzCwWGOj4

This is a live recording in the same church.
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by monitor View Post
I have an organ CD-recording this evening in a church. Nearby there are trams passing and a bus station is located just at the entrance. I did a test recording and the sound of their idling engines busses can be removed with steep HP filter at 70 Hz. I prefer to keep the low end intact and to record after midnight. The client insists on recording during day. How would you solve this?
It sounds as if he is a 'daytime person', not a night owl...it is hard for people to transition between these 2 states, if their habits are long standing (I don't know how variable shift workers cope...their life span tends to be statistically shorter !)

Maybe you could compromise and start very early in the morning, before the buses start up ? Or, as the daytime session proceeds and you are finding bus noises intruding, give him coffee so he's able to stay up later... to finish the recording after the buses stop running ?

Or, find out where the majority of the idling bus sounds live in the overall spectrum of your recording (I'm sure there will be significant material above 70 Hz also...) and remove with the steep filter as you've suggested.

Then, using a sub-harmonic generator like Waves Maxx-Bass, regenerate the missing sub bass element later on. If you do this carefully you should be able to generate a simulation of what you removed with the steep HP filter...minus the bus noise !

https://www.waves.com/plugins/maxxbass#tab-in-depth

You'll be tickling up the higher harmonics of the frequencies you have removed, but if you do it with restraint you will be surprised how easily the ear can be fooled by a carefully added resonant peak of this sort.

https://www.waves.com/1lib/pdf/plugins/maxxbass.pdf
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Lives for gear
 
James Lehmann's Avatar
 

I feel your pain.

It's low stops on the organ, or bus noise, or both - but each comes with limiting parameters.

The problem is if you say something direct like that to the client, they'll just say "Well, I'll find someone else who can do it then" even though every other option would face exactly the same choices!

Write to the Gent Burgermeister and demand all-electric buses to be put in service that day!

On a more practical note - is this a situation where some judiciously-placed SDC cardioids might take some or even all of the weight off the main omni pair?
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monitor View Post
I have an organ CD-recording this evening in a church. Nearby there are trams passing and a bus station is located just at the entrance. I did a test recording and the sound of their idling engines busses can be removed with steep HP filter at 70 Hz. I prefer to keep the low end intact and to record after midnight. The client insists on recording during day. How would you solve this?
Why a Hi-Pass filter?
If you have access to a spectral editor you may find that you can do a steep gain reduction right around 70Hz and leave everything below (and above) that.
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
Izotope RX loves to eat up steady-state noise. It's the easiest thing for it to do.

D.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

What is the purpose of the recording?
Old 1 week ago
  #8
The purpose is to record a full CD or at least to offer the best tracks as a free download.

I put an extra mike near the bus station and use the signal as a side chain input on a dynamic EQ. This seems to help, but it kills the lowest octave, but the talent actually likes the LF a bit softer.
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

For a CD I wouldn't make compromises.
Isn't it much likely there will be more noise than only LF rumble in a church in the heart of Gent with walls constisting of huge gothic windows? How to record a beautiful acoustics under these circumstamces? Anyway: Good luck...
Old 1 week ago
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Bruce Watson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monitor View Post
The client insists on recording during day. How would you solve this?
Set the client's expectations: there is no free lunch. If you can't record without the noise, then the recording will be noisy. Just the laws of physics talkin' to ya. You can spend time in post working to take some of the noise out, but you won't get it all out without leaving some level of audible artifacts. And all that work will take a fair amount of your time. Just sayin'.

If you have to record during the day, might be better to find a quieter venue. If it has to be this venue, during the noise peak of the day, well, you get what you get. Just make sure the client understands that. Put it in writing. Make client sign off on it. Whatever it takes to make sure neither of you ends up being surprised and unhappy.
Old 1 week ago
  #11
Lives for gear
Time is on your side. Just wait for the more aggressive second wave of the pandemic to kick in, after the current relaxation of shutdowns. People will again work from home...the buses will stop....if you're allowed to leave home to record in the church, your recordings will be bus-free.

Or, for now, either the late-night coffee or MaxxBass options...but then, you say the client prefers the recordings with LF rolled off anyway, so maybe there is no problem...and you just have to recalibrate your expectation of a full range recording to match reality (and your client's contentment with what he's already hearing with LF rolled off ?)
Old 1 week ago
  #12
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
Just a quick question and not being (too) sarcastic. How can your client want a church organ recording with the LF rolled off? Isn't the deep low the real hook of a large church organ?

Just asking.

D.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulrich View Post
What is the purpose of the recording?
Gear-purpose-wise I tried out a stand that extends 15 meter high on which a 6 meter T bar can be attached. Next week I'll try it out on an organ that is positioned about 14 meter above floor level.
Old 1 week ago
  #14
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by monitor View Post
Gear-purpose-wise I tried out a stand that extends 15 meter high on which a 6 meter T bar can be attached. Next week I'll try it out on an organ that is positioned about 14 meter above floor level.
That's fine...but the sound of an organ recording is typically the sound of the instrument plus the sound of the room/church. Using cardioid or sub-cardioid mics is generally not recommended for organ recording, where omnis rule...but in your case such mics might remove at least some of the ambient pickup which is aiding and abetting the bus sounds to become present in the recording, as well as either having a lowered sensitivity to bass sounds in the region that plagues your situation (compared with omnis)

You may find that a directional mic with a reputation for not having a drooping LF response (eg MKH 8040) will fix your situation, simply by discriminating against some of the ambient pickup
Old 1 week ago
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
Peter Allison's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
It sounds as if he is a 'daytime person', not a night owl...it is hard for people to transition between these 2 states, if their habits are long standing (I don't know how variable shift workers cope...their life span tends to be statistically shorter !)

Maybe you could compromise and start very early in the morning, before the buses start up ? Or, as the daytime session proceeds and you are finding bus noises intruding, give him coffee so he's able to stay up later... to finish the recording after the buses stop running ?
]
A friend who had made a few SA-CD recordings of organ, has said to me that recording at night is the only way to go, to avoid any processing to remove traffic noise. We are making another CD in a Yorkshire Town Hall that is surrounded by main roads, and it was a case of saying very bluntly to the organist making the recording" do you really want to have to re record a section every time a police car/ambulance/fire engine goes past?or are you prepared to give up one nights sleep in your life for a superior sound, your decision.... simples"
Old 1 week ago
  #16
Gear Nut
 

Agree! As an organist myself, if I where to record performance which are gona be published and marketed then I would sacrifice 1-2 nights sleep (of course sleep during the day instead ) to do the recording properly.
Old 1 week ago
  #17
I helped do an Organ recording in St. John's in New York. We had to worry more about subway trains than traffic when we did some all night recordings. We had to plan our recordings against the train schedules. What a mess. The recording was done before the advent of Izotope RX so we had to use some very steep filters to notch out any residual noise. Today with RX it would be super easy to get rid of that noise. FWIW
Old 1 week ago
  #18
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
Today with RX it would be super easy to get rid of that noise. FWIW
Day or night, this seems to be a no-brainer. Just less Rx work to do if you record at night

D.
Old 2 hours ago
  #19
I finally decided to leave the recording just as it is: no EQ no compression.
Attached Files

01.mp3 (10.14 MB, 23 views)

02.mp3 (11.76 MB, 31 views)

05.mp3 (6.12 MB, 30 views)

09.mp3 (7.10 MB, 26 views)

11.mp3 (4.16 MB, 19 views)

12.mp3 (10.33 MB, 23 views)

13.mp3 (8.08 MB, 22 views)

Old 1 hour ago
  #20
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monitor View Post
I finally decided to leave the recording just as it is: no EQ no compression.
You've definitely got some traffic rumble on the second clip, and quite a loud rumble on the third one (05). The others seem ok to me.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump