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Recording of Grieg song
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1
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Recording of Grieg song

Hi!

I was supposed to do this in Grieg´s villa, but due to the museum opening again for visitors, everything is locked down now to prepare. Did a recording of "The final spring" op. 32.2 in a church (and will put together with a video outside Grieg´s villa).

Sennheiser 8020 in stereo, 80 cm apart, 3 m high four metres out from the piano. Singer 2 m out from the keyboard part of the piano with Neumann tlm 103, Bösendorfer piano with two Neumann km 184.

Is the balance between the different mics ok? Any suggestions for improvements?

Knut
Attached Files

Våren Andreas 1. del.mp3 (8.75 MB, 242 views)


Last edited by knuttta; 3 weeks ago at 10:10 AM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2
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very nice!

personally, i'd favour hearing more direct and less diffuse sound from the piano: not to change the balance between the piano and the voice (much - well, the piano might need another 1.5dB and some more low end; i just listened on cans though)...

... but to make them sound more as playing together in the same room and less with the vocal being vastly closer/the piano far more distant to an imaginary listening position.

i hear some artificial reverb on the vocals or does this impression stem from non-aliged signals of spot mics vs main mics?

panning might be another discussion but as much as everything i mentioned above, mainly down to taste - thx for sharing!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3
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Thanks a lot for comments.
I agree, the singing sounds slightly like it is in another room. No artificial reverb.

New mix. Tried to bring the piano mics up in the mix and the sennheisers a bit down. It is difficult because the sennheiser are the glue in this set up and they capture a bit more piano than song. (The singer is only 16, so he he will get a lot more powerful in the years to come).

I really like the senn 8020, but often wonder if I would be better off with a diffuse field omnis like km183 for my kind of work. Would they have worked out better here?

Knut
Attached Files

Våren Andreas 1. del 2.mp3 (8.74 MB, 197 views)

Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
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i like this balance better!

it's pretty hard to argue with the sennheiser mkh mics...

[and of course you could hear a minor difference (in a direct comparison) to other mics from sanken, schoeps, akg, neumann etc.]

...but besides making more or less educated guesses based on experience, it's impossible to precisely predict which mics would yield which results under varying conditions. also, nothing should stop you from using filters or artificial reverb in case you can't get things to sound right from the mics alone! for my mixes, i much prefer relying on adjustable gear than be at the mercy of modern mics and baroque architects...

...which brings me back to panning/mic system: to my ears, the piano 'meanders' a bit much in the stereo field, possibly due to the two a/b mic settings (on piano and for mains)? also, i cannot really locate the two musicians.

imo a mix should either reflect the actual positions (side by side you said?) or then have a symmetrical soundfield with the piano a bit wider (to reflect its physical size) than the vocals - the soundfield of your mix seems to be somewhere in between.

i often prefer (close to) coincident mic systems for mains but add a pair of ambient mics in very wide a/b; the pattern of the latter then doesn't matter much but their signals, if the mics are positioned in the far field, can be used to both glue the mix together and/or to blur the image to taste (or can get used to feed into to the efx device without getting routed to the main mix bus or at the very least can get used to compare natural and artificial ambient sound).

more options come at the price of more gear, longer setup time, higher track count, longer editing etc. though...

oh, and pls wait for other folks to chime in!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
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jnorman's Avatar
Second mix is quite nice. I agree with deedeeyah about localization - I might suggest you try using the km184s in ORTF as the main pair and using the mkh20s as piano spots. While many people prefer using omnis as mains, they never give you a “picture” of where instruments are in the soundstage. That said, I do love my km183s - they are excellent piano spots, pedal harp spaced pair, and solo instrument main pair at a medium distance.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
Here for the gear
 

Thanks deedeeyeah and jnoram for your replies.

I have a more general quiestion:
In a classical voice recording like this (lieder). Do you need to be able to place the singer in the room? For me that is very important with ensembles (definately string quartet!), and of course orchestra, but I don´t find localisation that important here. Many of the projects I have had participated in have the singer either facing the orchestra or the pianist (like in the SOS article about recording song and piano). Then you don´t get to place the singer in the room, and it is really not disreable.

I will experiment with an ortf pair also. The room sounds quite nice, so maybe a blumlein pick up with be even better (royer sf12)?

Thanks again for chiming in. Hope more people will!

Knut

Last edited by knuttta; 3 weeks ago at 07:15 AM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7
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jnorman's Avatar
Royer sf12 is my favorite mic in the right situation. It can be pure magic sometimes...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
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...while i got not much love for ribbon mics in general (due to their mostly limited fr) and even less for blumlein (due to its known limitations) which is by far my least favourite mic technique; i only very, very rarely use it when recording say a choir or an organ on their own.
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