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Recording directly to USB Drives
Old 26th April 2020
  #1
Recording directly to USB Drives

I’ve tried to search but haven’t had success.

For those recording remote on location, are there good options for recording directly to a HD rather than using a computer and a DAW? For instance, I’d love to be able to capture the digital output of something like the Lynx Aurora (n) and saving the output per channel on a HD. In many cases where I record, I am in the ensemble and really just want to do setup and level checks and then just let the rig run, yet still using very high end gear (e.g. 5 mics into Millennia HV-3D Preamp to Lynx, Apogee, or Burl A/D).

I’ve seen a few things sort of like what I want, such as JoeCo Blackbox. I wasn’t sure if that was exactly what I needed and also it seems like it maxes out at 96khz.
Old 26th April 2020
  #2
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tourtelot's Avatar
Yes, you need a recorder. Could be a DAW on a laptop like Reaper (you'll need a USB interface with as many channels as you have coming out of your Millennia) or a JoeCo BBR which will, depending on the model, take analog in, AES in, Dante in or Madi in. Analog out of the Millennia, into the JoeCo and no interface or AtoD needed (the AtoD is in the JoeCo). I love my JoeCo.

Just curious, why would you need anything more than 96k? DSD512 will take a Merging Horus or Hapi and Pyramix; pretty freaking expensive unless you are recording The New York Phil.

D.
Old 26th April 2020
  #3
All the high end AD converters support 24/192. Why waste it if I have it? Cost isn’t a factor. What I want is the best sounding setup that is hassle free to record. I’ve got a MixPre-6 II if I want ok AD. If I’m sticking some DPA, Neumann, Schoeps into a Millennia, why would I cheap out on the AD? One nice thing is the Lynx seems to have a microSD backup recorder which may end up being what I use, but I wasn’t sure if there was something setup just for this use case? It’s not dissimilar to wanting a backup if I were running Pyramix or Pro Tools and worried it would crash or lose something.
Old 26th April 2020
  #4
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
We run triple redundancy in our latest rigs. They have a pair of hard drive based digital recorders and a Mac Mini running Pro Tools or Reaper.

Two of the rigs have a pair of Sound Devices PIX270i recorders and our third rig has a pair of TASCAM DA6400s.

Analog, MADI and Dante conductivity is available depending on the rigs.

The Pro Tools or Reaper workstations can also been used as virtual mixers when applicable. In all cases the DAW is always considered the back up recorder even those that's what we normally use to playback what we captured.
Old 26th April 2020
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
We run triple redundancy in our latest rigs. They have a pair of hard drive based digital recorders and a Mac Mini running Pro Tools or Reaper.

Two of the rigs have a pair of Sound Devices PIX270i recorders and our third rig has a pair of TASCAM DA6400s.

Analog, MADI and Dante conductivity is available depending on the rigs.

The Pro Tools or Reaper workstations can also been used as virtual mixers when applicable. In all cases the DAW is always considered the back up recorder even those that's what we normally use to playback what we captured.
Thanks! That Tascam looks pretty nice and a 1u as well. I was also looking at the SoundDevices 970 which seems like it’s similar to the 270 but audio only and relies on external drives. I like the idea which the 270. All of them seem to support 96khz only though. Not a deal breaker, I guess, because if I really want 192 I can always attach the Mac and bring up a DAW. Do you have a suggestion for my need based on your experience?
Old 26th April 2020
  #6
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I stopped using spinning drives with my JoeCo recorders several years ago, at the suggestion of Joe Bull (owner of JoeCo). Per him I switched to very fast USB 3 sticks, and have not looked back. I was very happy to eliminate the last moving part from my rig, and the USB drives (which don't get used for anything else) have been flawless. I plug the USB stick into the back of the JoeCo in the rack before I go to the gig, do a quick record /playback test once we're set up and off we go. I often don't pull the USB stick until the rack is back in the shop. Less fiddly-scary things to plug up at gigs, one less case (the old drives) to bring.
Old 26th April 2020
  #7
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
I stopped using spinning drives with my JoeCo recorders several years ago, at the suggestion of Joe Bull (owner of JoeCo). Per him I switched to very fast USB 3 sticks, and have not looked back. I was very happy to eliminate the last moving part from my rig, and the USB drives (which don't get used for anything else) have been flawless. I plug the USB stick into the back of the JoeCo in the rack before I go to the gig, do a quick record /playback test once we're set up and off we go. I often don't pull the USB stick until the rack is back in the shop. Less fiddly-scary things to plug up at gigs, one less case (the old drives) to bring.
Thanks for this, I'll take a look at it, it sounds a lot simpler than drives and all the setting up etc.
Pity is I have some very nice, reliable Hitachi drives!
They could be put on storage duty, they are very large drives.
Old 26th April 2020
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
I stopped using spinning drives with my JoeCo recorders several years ago, at the suggestion of Joe Bull (owner of JoeCo). Per him I switched to very fast USB 3 sticks, and have not looked back. I was very happy to eliminate the last moving part from my rig, and the USB drives (which don't get used for anything else) have been flawless. I plug the USB stick into the back of the JoeCo in the rack before I go to the gig, do a quick record /playback test once we're set up and off we go. I often don't pull the USB stick until the rack is back in the shop. Less fiddly-scary things to plug up at gigs, one less case (the old drives) to bring.
That sounds excellent! Do you use a separate AD feeding the JoeCo?
Old 26th April 2020
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorAdamWest View Post
All the high end AD converters support 24/192. Why waste it if I have it? Cost isn’t a factor. What I want is the best sounding setup that is hassle free to record. I’ve got a MixPre-6 II if I want ok AD. If I’m sticking some DPA, Neumann, Schoeps into a Millennia, why would I cheap out on the AD? One nice thing is the Lynx seems to have a microSD backup recorder which may end up being what I use, but I wasn’t sure if there was something setup just for this use case? It’s not dissimilar to wanting a backup if I were running Pyramix or Pro Tools and worried it would crash or lose something.
Dan Lavry suggested that the ideal is 60kHz 24bit, but no one offers that.
Old 26th April 2020
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Poulton View Post
Dan Lavry suggested that the ideal is 60kHz 24bit, but no one offers that.
Lots of opinions on what the best is. Let’s leave that for another thread. It seems like a Lynx Aurora (n) 16 channel Dante into a JoeCo BBR-Dante might get me close. Or taking a look at the Tascam. The Sound Devices looks excellent but might be overkill?
Old 27th April 2020
  #11
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tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Poulton View Post
Dan Lavry suggested that the ideal is 60kHz 24bit, but no one offers that.
Well, you did ask the question.

D.
Old 27th April 2020
  #12
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tourtelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
I stopped using spinning drives with my JoeCo recorders several years ago, at the suggestion of Joe Bull (owner of JoeCo).
I did this as well on my JoeCos and have never had a problem.

D.
Old 27th April 2020
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

FYI, Sound Devices don't make the 270i any more (as they sadly disbanded their 'Video Devices' division). They still make the 970 - which I own two of, but the OP needs to know that the 970 will not operate Dante at 96K - only MADI, AES or Analog. Dante on that device is 48K only.

Dante on the Scorpio or 888 (integrated Mixer / Recorders, but still viable as a 'bit bucket') can do up to 192K, 16 channels of Dante for either device. At 48 or 96K the Scorpio goes up to 32 channels of Dante, the 888 stays at 16 channels. Either of those might be a viable option, and very useful stand-alone if you don't want to take the external preamps / convertors out for simpler jobs.
Old 27th April 2020
  #14
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tourtelot's Avatar
The Sound Devices idea is a good one, although not inexpensive. But a JoeCo BBR64-Dante is expensive as well.

D.
Old 27th April 2020
  #15
The Tascam is seeming like the easiest option? How would I get 96khz into a Sound Devices 970? The JoeCo Dante option looks good too. That said, I’ve not yet bought the AD so I have options. MADI is fine as well. I just need to make sure it’ll also work nicely into a Mac for Logic Pro X as well.
Old 27th April 2020
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

as I said - the 970 will take 96K via MADI - just not Dante. If MADI is an option, go for it (the JoeCo and Tascam recorders are also available MADI). Of course, MADI into any of these devices will drop to 32 channels at 96K - that's just a basic fact of MADI unless the particular device has dual MADI ports like an Avid HD-MADI for that purpose. If you want to get into your Mac as well, stick to Dante and rule out the 970.
Old 27th April 2020
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by njrsound View Post
as I said - the 970 will take 96K via MADI - just not Dante. If MADI is an option, go for it (the JoeCo and Tascam recorders are also available MADI). Of course, MADI into any of these devices will drop to 32 channels at 96K - that's just a basic fact of MADI unless the particular device has dual MADI ports like an Avid HD-MADI for that purpose. If you want to get into your Mac as well, stick to Dante and rule out the 970.
Thanks! 32 is more than enough. I was aiming for 16, but starting with 8. This is for acoustic instrument recording. Was thinking Millennia HV-3D 8 into a Lynx Aurora (n) 16. Not quite ready to spring for a whole bunch of Burl B2s. That said, I don’t think the Lynx supports MADI. That means I either need a Dante recorder or a MADI A/D. I’m assuming I can’t those data rates I need over AES, Spif, or toslink? Seems like all the devices have that.
Old 27th April 2020
  #18
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Remoteness's Avatar
Yeah, the Tascam DA6400 is indeed a nice recorder. I like that I can interchange the I/O options via two card slots. The Sound Devices 970 is exactly like the PIX270i except for the fact that it doesn't capture video.

Both these recorders rely on external drives that sit inside proprietary caddies. The PIX270i and 970 can mount two caddies and can record to both drive simultaneously or in continuous mode. The DA6400 only has one drive slot.

IMHO, the Sound Devices recorders are like "Swiss Army Knives." They can take all sorts of analog and digital inputs/outputs. And, use any combination of them all. You have 8 channels of analog, 8 channels of AES, 64 channels of MADI and 64 channels of Dante available via its built in router. 144 channels pick from.

Furthermore, all out drive caddies have SSDs in them. Some of our Mac Minis also have SSDs in them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorAdamWest View Post
Thanks! That Tascam looks pretty nice and a 1u as well. I was also looking at the SoundDevices 970 which seems like it’s similar to the 270 but audio only and relies on external drives. I like the idea which the 270. All of them seem to support 96khz only though. Not a deal breaker, I guess, because if I really want 192 I can always attach the Mac and bring up a DAW. Do you have a suggestion for my need based on your experience?
Old 27th April 2020
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorAdamWest View Post
Thanks! 32 is more than enough. I was aiming for 16, but starting with 8. This is for acoustic instrument recording. Was thinking Millennia HV-3D 8 into a Lynx Aurora (n) 16. Not quite ready to spring for a whole bunch of Burl B2s. That said, I don’t think the Lynx supports MADI. That means I either need a Dante recorder or a MADI A/D. I’m assuming I can’t those data rates I need over AES, Spif, or toslink? Seems like all the devices have that.
well, if you were looking at starting with eight channels, you might consider just getting the 'basic' Millenia 8-chan preamp without a MADI or Dante card yet and running it into the 8 Line-Level Analog inputs of a Sound Devices 970, Scorpio or 888. Then if/when you are ready to step up to another 8 channels of Preamp you can decide on a digital pathway at that time depending on the gear involved. The 970 can do another 8 channels of 96K via it's AES inputs, for example, so you could just get another Millenia with the AES card and be at 16 channels straight away. I do this regularly for 16 channel 96K Classical records with two somewhat less prestigious but quite acceptable 8-channel Audient preamps. In fact I run a main and backup recorder, the main one gets the Analog from one Audient and the AES from the other, and the backup gets the opposite. Like Steve Remote, I tend to use a laptop running Reaper or Pro Tools as a monitor mixer and onsite replay machine, that gets fed MADI from one of the 970s through a RME thunderbolt interface. Many ways to skin this cat - scaleable and flexible is the key.
Old 28th April 2020
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by njrsound View Post
well, if you were looking at starting with eight channels, you might consider just getting the 'basic' Millenia 8-chan preamp without a MADI or Dante card yet and running it into the 8 Line-Level Analog inputs of a Sound Devices 970, Scorpio or 888. Then if/when you are ready to step up to another 8 channels of Preamp you can decide on a digital pathway at that time depending on the gear involved. The 970 can do another 8 channels of 96K via it's AES inputs, for example, so you could just get another Millenia with the AES card and be at 16 channels straight away. I do this regularly for 16 channel 96K Classical records with two somewhat less prestigious but quite acceptable 8-channel Audient preamps. In fact I run a main and backup recorder, the main one gets the Analog from one Audient and the AES from the other, and the backup gets the opposite. Like Steve Remote, I tend to use a laptop running Reaper or Pro Tools as a monitor mixer and onsite replay machine, that gets fed MADI from one of the 970s through a RME thunderbolt interface. Many ways to skin this cat - scaleable and flexible is the key.
I’m not sure if it was clear above but I’m planning on using the Millennia as only a preamp, as I understand it to be just about the most transparent multi-channel preamp available. The AD was going to be a Lynx because it seems to be one of the most transparent multi-channel ADs. I may make a separate post about those choices as well before I commit to a $15k Mobile setup.
Old 28th April 2020
  #21
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tourtelot's Avatar
Take a look at the Grace m108 preamps. Built-in first-rate AtoD, out on USB right into an iPad and Auria Pro. Done.

D.
Old 28th April 2020
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Take a look at the Grace m108 preamps. Built-in first-rate AtoD, out on USB right into an iPad and Auria Pro. Done.

D.
If budget were a concern, then sure. It's not, so while I appreciate taking the time to make suggestions, I don't believe the m108 is anywhere in the league of a Millennia pre and Lynx AD.
Old 28th April 2020
  #23
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Okay. Sincere question. Have you actually listened to either box?

D.
Old 28th April 2020
  #24
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If you're part of the ensemble that you're recording, do you plan to have your recording equipment in the room with you for easy access? If so, you need to consider the risk of fan noise (e.g., the Grace preamp has a fan, although it probably runs only under extreme conditions, and it can be remote-controlled anyway so you could put it in a control room if that's a concern).
Old 28th April 2020
  #25
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The Grace fan is user controlled and never comes on in any situation I've used them on.

But our young friend won't be buying m108s anyway. Way inferior to the Millennia.

D.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #26
Any of the Sound Devices MixPre Gen2 series can record to a USB drive. (while also recording to the internal SD card at the same time as well)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by njrsound View Post
FYI, Sound Devices don't make the 270i any more (as they sadly disbanded their 'Video Devices' division). They still make the 970 - which I own two of, but the OP needs to know that the 970 will not operate Dante at 96K - only MADI, AES or Analog. Dante on that device is 48K only.

Dante on the Scorpio or 888 (integrated Mixer / Recorders, but still viable as a 'bit bucket') can do up to 192K, 16 channels of Dante for either device. At 48 or 96K the Scorpio goes up to 32 channels of Dante, the 888 stays at 16 channels. Either of those might be a viable option, and very useful stand-alone if you don't want to take the external preamps / convertors out for simpler jobs.
Any of the Sound Devices 8 Series (Scorpio / 888 / 833) record simultaneously to THREE destinations at once: an internal SSD, and 2x SD cards.

Is one of the reasons I got my Sound Devices 833 for myself, as that level of recording redundancy is very reassuring and no other small field recorder on the market does it!

(the 833 does lack DANTE though, but it's much lower cost, lower weight, and lower power consumption means for me it is still a better choice than the Scorpio or 888. And in terms of raw power, the 833 is identical to all the others in the 8 Series! With 3x FPGAs under the hood)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #28
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The RME UFX series have a USB socket on the front panel and will indeed record to it. Just another option for you.

Regards,
-09
Old 3 weeks ago
  #29
For the moment I am going to see how the microSD in the Lynx does. Thanks all!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #30
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Been down the road you are considering and IMO your best bet is to buy an A & H SQ5 and Glyph Studio HD. 16 tracks @ 24/96K or (with additional DX168 stage box) 32 tracks @ 24/48K. A & H started working with this USB recording protocol more than 10 years ago with the QU16 and they have refined the process to a point that delivers all that has been promised. World class sonic quality for a street price of apx. $2,500. is the best quality/value deal available today however it is important to buy a high quality powered HD (like the Glyph studio) and forget using flash sticks that need power from the usb hub. It is also important to carefully read all of the specific format prep and operational instructions and follow every step diligently.
A professional integrated system that offers total control of the recording process from front end capture to USB digital storage of the performance that is ready for either replay or DAW two mixing is exactly why I bought this specific system for my live gig FOH & recording/video audio needs.
Hugh
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