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Recording directly to USB Drives
Old 3 weeks ago
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughshouse View Post
Been down the road you are considering and IMO your best bet is to buy an A & H SQ5 and Glyph Studio HD. 16 tracks @ 24/96K or (with additional DX168 stage box) 32 tracks @ 24/48K. A & H started working with this USB recording protocol more than 10 years ago with the QU16 and they have refined the process to a point that delivers all that has been promised. World class sonic quality for a street price of apx. $2,500. is the best quality/value deal available today however it is important to buy a high quality powered HD (like the Glyph studio) and forget using flash sticks that need power from the usb hub. It is also important to carefully read all of the specific format prep and operational instructions and follow every step diligently.
A professional integrated system that offers total control of the recording process from front end capture to USB digital storage of the performance that is ready for either replay or DAW two mixing is exactly why I bought this specific system for my live gig FOH & recording/video audio needs.
Hugh
I understand, and if I were doing this professionally, I could definitely see something like that. For my use case, I really need to be able to roll up with as little gear as possible and setup needs to be quick. What’s nice about the Millennia to Lynx (to maybe the Sound Devices recorder) is that I can just bring in a single small rolling U rack, do a level check to make sure I’m not clipping and then press record. Perhaps I will eventually get a mixer of some sort to do more fine tuning on site (Millennia also makes one) if I ever start doing more formal recordings that require 4 point editing and careful positioning of 16+ mics.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #32
And fwiw, this seems like a gap in the market. Even if for just redundant backup (as highlighted above) there aren’t really any options that go out of high quality DACs and match up to recorders. Dante is limited to 48khz on many AD and Recorders, Madi and AES support is also spotty. Would be nice to get a Thunderbolt-based recorder which nearly everything supports.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #33
Lives for gear
 

i have been recording acoustic genre music "set up and leave alone" protocols for more than 20 years and have found several ancillary tools very important.

1) Comprehensive pre amp control for proper gain staging.
2) High quality compression to catch audio spikes: That happen more that you may be aware.
3) On location play back capability to audit multi-track capture after sound check.

There is no credible empirical evidence to support any claim of perceivable sonic improvement of a 192K sample rate over 96K. Theoretically maybe, but in the real world it is considered superfluous. The world class elements integrated in FPGA processing found in todays better consoles is about as good as it gets. 10 or 15 years ago there was active discussion pursuant to the importance of "High end Converters" however given the quality of the D-Live, Digico and Calrec consoles from analog capture to analog distribution burl converters are never mentioned or apparently needed.
Here is the deal: the SQ5 has FPGA loaded processing that would not be over matched sonically with any of the mics you have mentioned and FYI I carry it and a DX168 stage box along with the glyph studio HD in a gator suit case that fits neatly in the trunk of my Toyota. If you have made up your mind to chase some sort of sonic perfection with component gear then by all means have at it: but I will be surprised if it turns out as well as you think it will. Good luck.
Hugh
Old 3 weeks ago
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughshouse View Post
i have been recording acoustic genre music "set up and leave alone" protocols for more than 20 years and have found several ancillary tools very important.

1) Comprehensive pre amp control for proper gain staging.
2) High quality compression to catch audio spikes: That happen more that you may be aware.
3) On location play back capability to audit multi-track capture after sound check.

There is no credible empirical evidence to support any claim of perceivable sonic improvement of a 192K sample rate over 96K. Theoretically maybe, but in the real world it is considered superfluous. The world class elements integrated in FPGA processing found in todays better consoles is about as good as it gets. 10 or 15 years ago there was active discussion pursuant to the importance of "High end Converters" however given the quality of the D-Live, Digico and Calrec consoles from analog capture to analog distribution burl converters are never mentioned or apparently needed.
Here is the deal: the SQ5 has FPGA loaded processing that would not be over matched sonically with any of the mics you have mentioned and FYI I carry it and a DX168 stage box along with the glyph studio HD in a gator suit case that fits neatly in the trunk of my Toyota. If you have made up your mind to chase some sort of sonic perfection with component gear then by all means have at it: but I will be surprised if it turns out as well as you think it will. Good luck.
Hugh
Thanks! Do you have a suggestion for a compressor/limited to use for tracking? I would think it’s most important to have the main pair on a high quality, transparent compressor for just this reason. Do you set the threshold quite high and use a high ratio so it only compressed if something extreme happens (and hoping that the mic pre hasn’t already clipped)?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #35
Lives for gear
 

Now that the question is pursuant to a "best practice protocol" for reducing the dynamic range input of the pre amps to be recorded we can shed light on one of the primary reasons why I recommended a small comprehensive digital console over the subject component gear idea. The ability to establish a custom compressor setting for each input pre that will cap hot db spikes while compensating with make up gain is in the wheel house of digital processing. LA2a plug in for vocals and 1176 plug ins with 10:00 to 2:00 settings for the instrumentation is a good starting point. Conservative transparent settings are always best especially when tracking and to this end it is important to be aware of the various performer tendencies.
20 years ago I used an HD 24 with the XR upgrade to get the better conversion chips. I started out with a 24-8 bus analog Mackie console and moved on the an A & H 2800 series desk that had much better sonic quality but required boat load of ancillary gear in SKB cases to properly process my desired stand alone capture. 14 years ago I moved over to the "digital dark side" with small digital desks that had all of the ancillary controls for each channel provided internally. A small chip the size of a finger nail will do the work of a 19 inch steel box housing the processing you require for each channel. There will always be interest in yesterdays vintage hardware however very little of it is used today in professional endeavors. The key question is how much gear will it take to properly do the job and how much space will each option require.
I will guarantee the small digital SQ5 desk delivering 24/96K capture with the Glyph HD will be a much smaller package.
Hugh
Old 3 weeks ago
  #36
Lives for gear
 

Thanks Hughshouse. I don't recall if you post over at the A&H forum. I've been fine here with the QDrive, but some still continue struggling apparently with 'the Q' or SQ Drive problems.
Your mention of externally powered drive being helpful is interesting. I'd like to pursue that but wondered if you had thoughts on going SSDs rather than the spinning drives?
Thanks again
Old 3 weeks ago
  #37
Lives for gear
 

Exclamation

Wayne , this is what I know;
1) The relatively small digital audio packets require no where close the the needs of video digital packets and are very well suited to the USB 2 protocol A&H offers.
2) While the size is smaller multi track recording has healthy speed requirements and when power demand from a USB source for a flash drive is combined with high speed capture a corruption is likely to occur.
3) I have one of the original Glyph USB2 GPT50s with external plug up power that was new 4 years ago. It has been replaced with the Studio model that is a backward compatible USB3 offering. Both of these HDs are spinning drive loaded and have delivered outstanding, bullet proof service for both my QUsb and SQ5.
4) Matching the tool to the task is always a smart practice and to that end consider this: No HD will last forever and failures are an ultimate certainty: however we need to remember predictable performance of an audio capture is the requirement, not archival needs. To this end spinning drives produce much less heat than SSDs and have proven to be at least as dependable if not better than SSDs for the subject SQ5 direct HD recording task.
5) I highly recommend calling Glyph and get your questions answered. (800)335-0345
Hugh
Old 3 weeks ago
  #38
Lives for gear
 

Excellent! Will do. Thank you Sir.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #39
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughshouse View Post
Been down the road you are considering and IMO your best bet is to buy an A & H SQ5 and Glyph Studio HD. 16 tracks @ 24/96K or (with additional DX168 stage box) 32 tracks @ 24/48K. A & H started working with this USB recording protocol more than 10 years ago with the QU16 and they have refined the process to a point that delivers all that has been promised. World class sonic quality for a street price of apx. $2,500. is the best quality/value deal available today however it is important to buy a high quality powered HD (like the Glyph studio) and forget using flash sticks that need power from the usb hub. It is also important to carefully read all of the specific format prep and operational instructions and follow every step diligently.
A professional integrated system that offers total control of the recording process from front end capture to USB digital storage of the performance that is ready for either replay or DAW two mixing is exactly why I bought this specific system for my live gig FOH & recording/video audio needs.
Hugh
Just a quick FWIW that the QSC TM30Pro does similar at 48kHz for about half the price. It also has more local I/O, but won't run a digital stage box.
I use the QSC and record direct to a Samsung T5 SSD, and there's a USB B port which allows me to send any/all channels direct to a laptop. I record to the laptop's internal drive as a backup.

Modern mixing desks really are something - they pack in all this recording capability, while still being able to run a show.

Chris
Old 2 weeks ago
  #40
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris661 View Post
Just a quick FWIW that the QSC TM30Pro does similar at 48kHz for about half the price. It also has more local I/O, but won't run a digital stage box.
I use the QSC and record direct to a Samsung T5 SSD, and there's a USB B port which allows me to send any/all channels direct to a laptop. I record to the laptop's internal drive as a backup.
And if you don't need the laptop backup and don't need so many inputs, the QSC Touchmix 8 or 16 will work as well. I have the 8 and have used it for recordings; it's about the size of a large laptop. I would bypass the preamps, which are okay but nothing to write home about; I'm not sure how great the converters are either. But it works very well for recording and records 32-bit floating point WAV files.

I think the OP wants higher sampling rates, though; it's for classical music, the realm of anxious audiophiles.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #41
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh View Post
And if you don't need the laptop backup and don't need so many inputs, the QSC Touchmix 8 or 16 will work as well. I have the 8 and have used it for recordings; it's about the size of a large laptop. I would bypass the preamps, which are okay but nothing to write home about; I'm not sure how great the converters are either. But it works very well for recording and records 32-bit floating point WAV files.

I think the OP wants higher sampling rates, though; it's for classical music, the realm of anxious audiophiles.
Yeah, I ran a TM16 for years before getting a TM30Pro. Nice little desk, but the TM30Pro is definitely an upgrade.

Having done some loop-through measurements, I can say that these desks are very clean. If you want something with "mojo", then you'll need to put something on the input to provide that.

Here's a good video on digital sampling: https://xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml
I can see that high bit depths are useful for recording things with a very large dynamic range, but SFX aside, I don't see the need for the very high sample rates that are often demanded around here.

Chris
Old 2 weeks ago
  #42
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris661 View Post
Having done some loop-through measurements, I can say that these desks are very clean. If you want something with "mojo", then you'll need to put something on the input to provide that.
Thanks, good to know. I did some tests last year with the Touchmix 8 versus a Sound Devices MixPre 6 and a Sound Devices USBPre2 and found the Touchmix (using its own preamps) a bit harsh-sounding in comparison, but I'll give it another try.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #43
Lives for gear
No problem.

I did a test on the TM30Pro which involved 17x loops through the desk, so that any errors would be hugely magnified.

With that many loops through, the HF is -3dB at 19kHz, and the LF is -3dB at 28Hz.
The LF rolloff gives a rotating phase curve, which hits 180 degrees at the -3dB point. At the high end, there's a wiggle which is at its worst at 14.7kHz, hitting -75 degrees. Running at 48kHz pushed the phase wiggle a bit higher in frequency suggesting it's the top-end filtering causing the phase shifts.

Remember, I used 17x bits of XLR and wired a desk output to the next input, routed to the next output, wired to the next input, etc. This is a really bad operating case for the desk, and it measured fine. Not perfect, but really not bad at all.


Interested to hear about your comparison with those devices.

Chris
Old 2 weeks ago
  #44
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris661 View Post

Interested to hear about your comparison with those devices.
I simply ran a test by clipping a DPA 4099 onto a 12-string guitar (which has a complex sound with lots of overtones); using the clip-on mic took distance from the mic out of the equation as a variable. I used the same sample rate (48k) eliminated all filters (e.g., low cut/high pass), set inputs to the same target average level (-18 dBfs) and recorded simple picked chords into the Touchmix 8 (recorded onto a Samsung T5), MixPre 6 (recorded internally), and USBPre 2 (the USBPre2 went into a laptop, recorded on a DAW). Listened back on my desktop system, which uses the USBPre2 as interface. I was listening purely subjectively for what sounded nicest to me; I did this test over a year ago and trashed the files after the test was completed but my recollection was that I liked the USBPre2 best followed by the MixPre 6, and the Touchmix definitely came in third. Given your report, however, I'll do more recordings with it and see how it goes. I mainly use it to record concerts when I'm doing live sound.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #45
Fwiw, the Lynx Aurora (n) has been amazing so far and the microSD recording has worked perfectly. I may still consider a dedicated recorder in the future, but for now, this is working nicely.
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