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Who will raise their rates after winning a Grammy?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
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Plush's Avatar
Who will raise their rates after winning a Grammy?

Who will raise their rates after winning a Grammy?

In the past, the answer was NO ONE. (except me).

When I asked them why not, they said if they attempted to raise their rates, they would be fired.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
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What aspects of winning a Grammy would be justifiable grounds for raising one's rates ?

A (hopefully) peer-review panel circle simply determines that, compared with others of your calibre who have also been nominated, your work in that year was judged outstanding in its field of endeavour (compared with the other nominees)

It doesn't mean that your nominated work has improved over your usual standard, it means that you have delivered a high (outstanding even...) level of work ...perhaps on a particular project only.

That sort of acclaim may make your work practice more desirable to future clients who might wish to hire you, no doubt....but I don't see any direct correlation between the granting of such an award, and a justification to charge more (for the same calibre of work that you would usually deliver, regardless of whether you'd won such an award.)

Contrary to what you might believe, the granting of a Grammy (or Academy or Oscar or BAFTA or Emmy) is no proof of an elevated standard of work justifying increased recompense. Self-delusion and aggrandizement might lead you to an alternate conclusion, however...

By all means raise your rates when:
....the industry of which you're a member does so generally, and you don't want to be left behind;
....when you really don't want to take on a job which is going to entail lots of logistical difficulty or additional expense on your part...
.....when you're providing a quantum leap of additional service and client outcome, due to new gear acquisition, engaging additional staff or delivering a new work-practice which produces unsurpassed quality
.....when your regular client base can accommodate to your demands, and you want to stash away some extra savings in anticipation of retirement ...

Last edited by studer58; 2 weeks ago at 05:29 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
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Yannick's Avatar
 

I have looked at it from all possible sides. There is no way winning a Grammy or any other prize is going to make my recordings better.

Hence there is no justifiable reason to change rates.

We could discuss for ages why a Grammy is won, IMO in classical it is 98% due to the source in that location. Maybe 2% due to the engineer/producer ?

In my experience it is fairly easy to record something that sounds fantastic.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannick View Post
We could discuss for ages why a Grammy is won, IMO in classical it is 98% due to the source in that location. Maybe 2% due to the engineer/producer ?
Maybe the Board/Academy has rated you highly for several years previously, but not elevated you yet to winner status....and then one lucky year they decide you've waited long enough, and finally it's your turn to shine in the sun for 15 minutes...

Be thankful, be humble, enjoy the glory and kudos (and then go home and prepare your equipment list and pack the van/car for your recording gig coming up tomorrow....and acknowledge that the gig might fail if you happen to leave behind a crucial cable or piece of hardware....just like always !)
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
Gear Addict
 

Wife came home after all day’s hard work, “Honey, the UPS driver delivered me my two Grammies today” I told her. “Congratulations” said she. Without losing a beat, she followed: “Now, go take out the garbage”. Lickily, she didn't mean all my Grammies...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
If you consider the big winner of the night recorded her stuff in her bedroom on cheap gear, I'd be thinking of selling out a pro room while I still can get some return on it.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
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Yannick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
If you consider the big winner of the night recorded her stuff in her bedroom on cheap gear, I'd be thinking of selling out a pro room while I still can get some return on it.
Didnt I write 98% is the source in the location ?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
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Plush's Avatar
I think you guys are waaay off.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Maybe it's your locale that does not value the award??

But to US public and to musicians in my cadre, and others that might hire you, winning a Grammy is a badge of honor that says you're the best. And the best get to charge more.

It is extremely difficult to win.

You guys write to minimize the winner. Why do you do that? You are so out of it!

It needs to be monetized or what good is it?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9
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Plush's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannick View Post
I have looked at it from all possible sides. There is no way winning a Grammy or any other prize is going to make my recordings better.

Hence there is no justifiable reason to change rates.

We could discuss for ages why a Grammy is won, IMO in classical it is 98% due to the source in that location. Maybe 2% due to the engineer/producer ?

In my experience it is fairly easy to record something that sounds fantastic.
An absurd contention. Especially the part that the record auto records itself while being supervised by the 2% engineer. Where is your engineer spirit and respect for your own work?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
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tourtelot's Avatar
A Grammy (or an Oscar or an Emmy) may help an engineer entre into a better strata of projects but I doubt if it's going to be considered when rates are discussed. Nice to have on a (my) resume but won't make me richer.

D.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #11
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Plush's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
If you consider the big winner of the night recorded her stuff in her bedroom on cheap gear, I'd be thinking of selling out a pro room while I still can get some return on it.
Has nothing to do with the topic or thread. I will not entertain your thoughts because I do not recognize the people as engineers. I'm talking about real engineers.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #12
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Winning a Grammy is it's own intrinsic reward...it let's you walk a little taller amongst your peers, and gets you invited to a better calibre of cocktail parties ?

As Doug says above, it might also provide entre to a higher-paying class of clients, who (pre-Grammy) may have considered you...but bypassed you, in favour of such an award winner.

If your gig diary is already full, it will thus allow you to replace the less desirable clients with the more desirable ones...if that's the sort of MO you feel comfortable in using ? For you Plush, to raise your rates is part of that landscape...for others, less so or not at all. Seems like a recipe for ensuring a (rapid) turnover of your client base...how many of us pursue that goal ?

I have a personal friend who's a Grammy winner...I'm sure it (quite rightly) thrilled him and his family and associates in the time immediately following the award, and he'd be mad not to add it to his CV ...and the award probably gets polished daily too... but I don't believe he raised his rates. His colleagues and existing client base would think less of him...and perhaps tell him to his face...because of it, if he had.

Last edited by studer58; 2 weeks ago at 02:00 AM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post

It needs to be monetized or what good is it?
Spoken like a true capitalist...and simultaneously cheapens the notion of the award and what it stands for (which, given your highlighting of the shameful Dugan episode, may not be very much ?)

Let me see if I have this straight ....you have loathing for the awarding academy due to it's many long-standing misdemeanours of racism, sexism and other scandalous behaviour, yet if you won the award you'd brush such reservations aside, accept it.... and use it cynically as a vehicle to raise your rates ? Mmm..ok
Old 2 weeks ago
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Has nothing to do with the topic or thread. I will not entertain your thoughts because I do not recognize the people as engineers. I'm talking about real engineers.
well...

i'm not in this kinda 'music' which won the girl (and her brother) a bunch of awards but imo most any folks tweaking knobs/chasing a mouse in pop music have waaaay more engineering skills than most classical 'engineers'/recordists: it doesn't take much to get classical music to sound good on a (hard)disk!

also, in old europe we don't give (as) much about rigged or staged elections, contests, awards etc...

...but congrats and enjoy!

may it raise your social status - i just can't see how winning an(other) award made you a better engineer (which would justify raising rates); could even be you got one for a production of which you personally do not think you did your best job!
then there is a market which may (or may not) allow for higher rates; if you can raise your rates and if this makes you happy, go ahead! but maybe also ask yourself how much our 'work' can or should be worth at all...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #15
Lightbulb

Don't wait for a Grammy to raise your rates!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorseHorse View Post
Don't wait for a Grammy to raise your rates!
Lol...special offer for loyal, long-standing clients: "Book me now, get your next recording done at pre-Impeachment rates...limited offer, must end soon"
Old 2 weeks ago
  #17
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Tommy-boy's Avatar
 

Interesting discussion here, which applies to many fields. Low-ballers can ruin things for a lot of people. Customers don't always see or understand quality.

BTW - I could see my wife telling me to take out the trash after I won some major award. Must be hard-wired into wives to keep their husbands real.

Tom
Old 2 weeks ago
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Lol...special offer for loyal, long-standing clients: "Book me now, get your next recording done at pre-Impeachment rates...limited offer, must end soon"
Might be better to wait for post-acquittal rates. They’ll be more reasonable.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #19
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fred2bern's Avatar
In my "life before", I was a member of a string quartet. We were on the highest international string quartet competitions, sometimes out at the end of the semi final, sometimes in the final... and we won one.
It did give us more money.
Not because we raised our fee, but because we changed our professional level of touring and halls. Before we played in little towns in Europe, after it was in big cities and in big halls. (But we kept playing in small towns also). We asked for our "standard" fee everytime but with more concerts it was more money.

As a producer, of course my "life before" is what I sell, engineering is just a small part of it. But even without "Grammy" it's the same thing just with good reviews in professional newspapers. When I have a good review in "Das Orchester", my phone rings...

I do agree with the idea that an award gives you naturally more options to work, even if it's "just" more confidence in your work by some new artists... and if you have more artists, it gives you more money. Will you work better with a Grammy under the microphones? You'll still do the same, giving your best on every production.

Fred.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #20
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Yannick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
An absurd contention. Especially the part that the record auto records itself while being supervised by the 2% engineer. Where is your engineer spirit and respect for your own work?
We should all write to Jacob Collier and ask if HE will raise his rates. But of course, HE is not a real engineer.

To answer your question: the 2% in our personal life is of course 50%. But you seem to forget the general audience couldn't care less for recording quality. It is my experience even the musicians do not care enough.

Let's put it this way then: in reality 2%, for the musicians 5%, in our minds 90%

Of course I and many musicians realize the musical direction part is extremely important in our job, as is respect and trus. Contradictorily, the better the production, the easier our work, and the more important it seems.

All this makes me wonder. Do you actively interpret the music, and try to shape&change the artists' vision on the music while doing the production ?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannick View Post
All this makes me wonder. Do you actively interpret the music, and try to shape&change the artists' vision on the music while doing the production ?
Why not, if the composer is dead and not easily conferred with.... you just pull out your ouija board and commence a seance-conference call with him, to be sure your interpretation is on the right track ?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #22
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Yannick's Avatar
 

I meant as a recording engineer/producer.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #23
I had to burst the bubble, but it is the quality and consistency of your work...
which gets you better clients...
Which gets you better reviews and awards...
Which gets you better clients...
Which gets you better reviews and awards...
Which allows you to raise your rates and be more selective about projects...
Which gets you better clients...
Which gets you better reviews and awards...
Which allows you to raise your rates and be more selective about projects...

(Notice a pattern...)
As always, YMMV.
All the best,
Mark
Old 2 weeks ago
  #24
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Who will raise their rates after winning a Grammy? In the past, the answer was NO ONE. (except me). When I asked them why not, they said if they attempted to raise their rates, they would be fired.
So you're saying if I raise my rates I'll win a Grammy, but first I have to fire myself?

I'm in.

No wait, I'm out.

Confused!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #25
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GYMusic's Avatar
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
If you consider the big winner of the night recorded her stuff in her bedroom on cheap gear, I'd be thinking of selling out a pro room while I still can get some return on it.
Can't you just hear the questions now... what kind of sheets do you have on your bed (in your bedroom studio)? Did you have your closet doors open or closed to get "that sound"? Do you record with that little night light on or off? What kind of wood is that dresser made of and does that contribute to your vocal sound? Are those drapes cotton or a polyester blend and do they help with the early reflections? Is your bedroom AC on a separate breaker?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #26
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Plush's Avatar
Certainly what Mark writes is true. One's profile is raised with the winning of awards--the Grammy being the most prominent. It is a very realistic view on gaining notice through awards. But no bubble has been burst. His observations are simply the pattern of moving up the ladder in gaining a top level clientele.

Working with higher profile clients DOES lead to having one's work reviewed more- ie. higher profile.

ATTENTION:
The most disturbing repetitive refrain here in this thread is the resistance to raising rates in general. And the mouthing of the idea that it is not possible in the various locales where posters reside. (US, Europe, South America).

All recordists should raise their rates now.

As far as my recurring disdain for The Recording Academy, please know that formerly I was at the very top of the organization as a national trustee, Vice President of the organization, and a long time Chicago board member. I was inside the machine with all visible to me for years.

My objections to the inner workings of NARAS always revolved around vote fixing, nominations fixing and corruption, committee members voting for themselves, and double dealing / dirty deals within the board and executive committee. My objections go back since 25 years and are not new.

A lot of the posts here on this thread are garbage.

That is because the negative posters are not in the arena.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #27
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
... it's your locale that does not value the award??

But to US public and to musicians in my cadre, and others that might hire you, winning a Grammy is a badge of honor that says you're the best. And the best get to charge more.

It is extremely difficult to win.

You guys write to minimize the winner. Why do you do that? You are so out of it!
I'm confused. You're the guy who just posted this:

Grammy's sound, 2020

As a sidebar: the 2020 nominee I worked on didn't win, but a mention goes on the resume nevertheless.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #28
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Plush's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann View Post
So you're saying if I raise my rates I'll win a Grammy, but first I have to fire myself?

I'm in.

No wait, I'm out.

Confused!
Your post is clearly because of an English language misunderstanding. Comprehension was faulty.

Just think it through. I am talking about how winning a Grammy should allow you to raise your rates.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #29
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Plush's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Spoken like a true capitalist...and simultaneously cheapens the notion of the award and what it stands for (which, given your highlighting of the shameful Dugan episode, may not be very much ?)

Let me see if I have this straight ....you have loathing for the awarding academy due to it's many long-standing misdemeanours of racism, sexism and other scandalous behaviour, yet if you won the award you'd brush such reservations aside, accept it.... and use it cynically as a vehicle to raise your rates ? Mmm..ok
Garbage
Old 2 weeks ago
  #30
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Let me see if I have this straight ....you have loathing for the awarding academy due to it's many long-standing misdemeanours of racism, sexism and other scandalous behaviour, yet if you won the award you'd brush such reservations aside, accept it.... and use it cynically as a vehicle to raise your rates ? Mmm..ok
I think it's more like this: The game is rigged and everyone knows it. But people want a Grammy anyway. If you won one, you must be buddies with the Back Room Boys. So it's worth it to pay you more than an engineer who's equally good but not connected.
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