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The wondrous world of After Effects!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
The wondrous world of After Effects!

Remote recording is all about capturing a moment. If the moment is glorious and euphoric, that's a testament to the musicians and their skills, specifically their ability to bring it at a pre-ordained time and place. Rubber and road, traction and torque-- getting up onstage and tuning, and then, right in the middle of the continuum, creating that mysterious magic we call it.

I feel blessed by the gods of careerism to be there, witness and champion (and, uh, yeah, employee.) For the classical music videos I do, I feel like departing from the plain Jane visual that the camera sees is probably a big no-no. Sure, zoom and pan, and alternate between cameras, but no funny monkeyshines!

Whereas in the pop world-- when a group advertises itself as a "psychedelic jam band," well then, off with the white gloves! Psychedelia is all about "enhanced" visuals and alternate universes and distortion-- so the kind of Photoshoppy versions of reality you can get with After Effects, say "Turbulent Displace" and "Find Edges," why they are just the thing, the it that's called for!

Old 1 week ago
  #2
Really lousy audio recording...FWIW
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
...FWIW
I give up, Tom... what is your opinion worth?
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
I give up, Tom... what is your opinion worth?
About as much as yours <GRIN>

I just don't like distorted over recorded clips on YouTube but there seem to be more of these lately. I guess it is the new "normal"...
Old 1 week ago
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
Really lousy audio recording...FWIW
I think you're really missing the experimental and psychedelic focal aspect of what Joel's alluding to in his preamble...IOW this clip is mostly about the visuals ! On that level, it's a lot of fun, and the over the top nature of the video effects is most of its charm.

You must have been listening with your ears Tom, when this one called for you to use your eyes instead

As per John Lennon's invitation to: "Turn off your mind, relax and float down stream...." but you decided to pass on the suggestion !

Sure the audio is muddy and indistinct, but at least the whole mix is that way...so it's 'uniformly average' Are you trying to tell me you wanted to hear more of that vocal and virtuoso scratch-dulcimer anyway ...gimme a break ?

An aux output from the house mix board might have gained some partial clarity...but most likely for only some of the inputs anyway, and the gestalt uniformity would have been lost. Haven't you heard the expression "so bad it's actually good"....this is a prime example ?
Old 1 week ago
  #6
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Papanate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
I think you're really missing the experimental and psychedelic focal aspect of what Joel's alluding to in his preamble...IOW this clip is mostly about the visuals ! On that level, it's a lot of fun, and the over the top nature of the video effects is most of its charm.
I agree with you that there is some fun to be had from the visuals.

Quote:
You must have been listening with your ears Tom, when this one called for you to use your eyes instead
I think @ Thomas W. Bethe has a point though - the music recording should match the visuals. As unusual as the lineup is I think a better recording would add to the experience.

Quote:
As per John Lennon's invitation to: "Turn off your mind, relax and float down stream...." but you decided to pass on the suggestion !
I don't think that's his point - although I do think he was being needlessly negative.

Quote:
Sure the audio is muddy and indistinct, but at least the whole mix is that way...so it's 'uniformly average' Are you trying to tell me you wanted to hear more of that vocal and virtuoso scratch-dulcimer anyway ...gimme a break ?
I certainly did - I have never seen that before - in my 30 years in the business I thought I'd seen it all - but that was amazing.

Quote:
Haven't you heard the expression "so bad it's actually good"...this is a prime example?
Interesting idea - my 15 year old and I watch certain programs and movies for this very reason. Some we watch to make snarky comments about and others to revel in the downright cringing badness of it all. And we thouroghly enjoy it.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papanate View Post
I agree with you that there is some fun to be had from the visuals.



I think @ Thomas W. Bethe has a point though - the music recording should match the visuals. As unusual as the lineup is I think a better recording would add to the experience.



I don't think that's his point - although I do think he was being needlessly negative.


I guess that is what is wrong with a lot of music today. It is not designed for our ears it is designed to be watched.

Had a mastering client call me up and said that he did not like the patterns on his analyzer after the mastering so I asked him how he liked the sound, and he said "GREAT". So what difference does it make how it looks on his analyzer???

The music on the video is not IMHO quite ready for prime time and the visuals are OK but there is a lot that one could do to make them look even better. If this is what you all like then fine watch it and turn off the sound. I don't have to go with the crowd.
Old 1 week ago
  #8
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Papanate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
I guess that is what is wrong with a lot of music today. I don't have to go with the crowd.
I think the point was that your comment was too much like a drive by - Just take a hit and leave.


Music has always been about the visual IMO - it's just that the Visuals often came with an extraordinary amount of talent. Rudy Valee, Frank Sinatra, Elvis, The Beatles, The Police, U2... etc...back in the day they were all known for their looks - but delivered high end talent too.
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papanate View Post
I think the point was that your comment was too much like a drive by - Just take a hit and leave.
I watched the whole video. I actually scrolled back and watched part of it again. Not too interesting audio wise and honestly I have seen some better videos from a high school student who did some music videos while he was interning here. Why all the fuss??? The video is not all that revolutionary and not all that creative. I guess I am not WOWED by it. Sorry! JMHO
Old 1 week ago
  #10
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Papanate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
I watched the whole video. I actually scrolled back and watched part of it again. Not too interesting audio wise and honestly I have seen some better videos from a high school student who did some music videos while he was interning here. Why all the fuss??? The video is not all that revolutionary and not all that creative. I guess I am not WOWED by it. Sorry! JMHO

I find myself in an odd position here - I didn't really like the video or the audio - and I don't know why I'm defending anything - It's just that it seemed understood that the point the OP was making was not for a critique but the freedom to create outside the narrow boundaries of what many people live within.
Old 1 week ago
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papanate View Post
I find myself in an odd position here - I didn't really like the video or the audio - and I don't know why I'm defending anything - It's just that it seemed understood that the point the OP was making was not for a critique but the freedom to create outside the narrow boundaries of what many people live within.
And I agree 100%.

The local college has a "film program" and sometimes we get applicants for our intern program. One person showed me his "show reel" which is suppose to be the best of the things he has done. Most of the video was out of focus, was over exposed or under exposed, was badly hand held and the audio was atrocious. When quizzed about the lack of any quality in the filming the student said it was Cinema Verite, to which I replied it was not and was just a way to justify not knowing how to use the camera. It was not revolutionary or well done it was just bad.

I look at the film at the center of this discussion and have the same reaction as when I look at some artist's work that consisted of him tossing a ripe tomato at a blank canvas and calling it art. It is not art it is someone tossing a tomato at a blank canvas and even I can do that. Sorry it is not revolutionary.

As to the film mentioned earlier I don't think it is experimental and has a psychedelic focal aspect to it. It is someone fooling around with After Effects.

If you want to see some really psychedelic focal aspects look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7CV-F8jvks it took time and energy and some thought. FWIW
Old 1 week ago
  #12
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I think you could do worse than familiarise yourself with Joel's MO and style....a good place to start is here:https://m.youtube.com/user/joelpattersondotus/videos

He roams his neighbourhood of Troy, NY and captures fly on the wall video of amateur performers in public performance: bars, street musicians etc. He's employing lightweight stealth methods and is more concerned with capturing the moment than high production values

I'm sure he could chime in here to flesh out this brief description more fully, but he's been a long term poster here, and probably figures that we're familiar with what he does by now ?

This is opportunist spontaneous sound/vision gathering, they're not performer audition nor pop music videos for a teen market. His audio in previous videos has often been better than this particular sample, but that's not necessarily the point.

Check out some of his other videos in the link above...he's clearly filming for his own interest and amusement and perhaps for the artists/bands too, so take them in that spirit perhaps ?
Old 1 week ago
  #13
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chrischoir's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
Remote recording is all about capturing a moment. If the moment is glorious and euphoric, that's a testament to the musicians and their skills, specifically their ability to bring it at a pre-ordained time and place. Rubber and road, traction and torque-- getting up onstage and tuning, and then, right in the middle of the continuum, creating that mysterious magic we call it.

I feel blessed by the gods of careerism to be there, witness and champion (and, uh, yeah, employee.) For the classical music videos I do, I feel like departing from the plain Jane visual that the camera sees is probably a big no-no. Sure, zoom and pan, and alternate between cameras, but no funny monkeyshines!

Whereas in the pop world-- when a group advertises itself as a "psychedelic jam band," well then, off with the white gloves! Psychedelia is all about "enhanced" visuals and alternate universes and distortion-- so the kind of Photoshoppy versions of reality you can get with After Effects, say "Turbulent Displace" and "Find Edges," why they are just the thing, the it that's called for!

I'm getting a Santana / Hot Tuna vibe here
Old 1 week ago
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
I think you could do worse than familiarise yourself with Joel's MO and style....a good place to start is here:https://m.youtube.com/user/joelpattersondotus/videos

He roams his neighbourhood of Troy, NY and captures fly on the wall video of amateur performers in public performance: bars, street musicians etc. He's employing lightweight stealth methods and is more concerned with capturing the moment than high production values

I'm sure he could chime in here to flesh out this brief description more fully, but he's been a long term poster here, and probably figures that we're familiar with what he does by now ?

This is opportunist spontaneous sound/vision gathering, they're not performer audition nor pop music videos for a teen market. His audio in previous videos has often been better than this particular sample, but that's not necessarily the point.

Check out some of his other videos in the link above...he's clearly filming for his own interest and amusement and perhaps for the artists/bands too, so take them in that spirit perhaps ?
I am somewhat confused...Was this video done by Joel or someone else? It seems like I personally cannot dislike something without everyone jumping to Joel defense. I too produce commercials (See https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=MtgBQHS8rT4)* and "How to videos" and I am a perfectionist when it comes to what we put out on TV and the WWW. I would NOT be comfortable with the quality of what Joel put up as an example. That is my only complaint. Did anyone look at what I posted as an example of some really nicely done "on film painting"? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7CV-F8jvks). That took some time and skill and forethought. *Please note that all of the animation for our commercial was done in After Effects by our video editor.

To badly film and record a band and then put in some after effects on it is fine but it is not the be all tell all that everyone seems to want to say that it is.

Have fun!

Last edited by Thomas W. Bethe; 1 week ago at 08:15 PM.. Reason: Added two links
Old 1 week ago
  #15
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
I am somewhat confused...Was this video done by Joel or someone else?
If you look at the credits below the video he posted, the facts are quite plain. I'm not going to speak any further on his behalf, he can do that.
Old 1 week ago
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
If you look at the credits below the video he posted, the facts are quite plain. I'm not going to speak any further on his behalf, he can do that.
I watched the video on GearSlutz not on YouTube, sorry. I guess it would have been nice of Joel to tell us more about the recording. I assumed, wrongly that this was something he found on YouTube. I read everyone of Joel's posts and enjoy his comments but I did not like this particular video but it seems you think it is GREAT and keep defending him. I have better things to do so I guess this will be my final posting on this subject. Have a GREAT day! Be safe!
Old 1 week ago
  #17
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
I watched the video on GearSlutz not on YouTube, sorry. I guess it would have been nice of Joel to tell us more about the recording. I assumed, wrongly that this was something he found on YouTube. I read everyone of Joel's posts and enjoy his comments but I did not like this particular video but it seems you think it is GREAT and keep defending him. I have better things to do so I guess this will be my final posting on this subject. Have a GREAT day! Be safe!
I don't believe I ever said it was GREAT....just that it was his demo of After Effects, so very much focussed on that aspect alone. I hope we'll see Joel continuing to post more material here, it's great to eavesdrop on his musical neighbourhood.
Old 1 week ago
  #18
Thanks for all the commentary, attention and constructive criticisms.

Everyone of us is creating their own legacy. Someone told me long ago-- it's not just the physical artifacts you leave behind (which in these times we could expand to include virtual artifacts), but the spirit with which you engage your world and the people who cross your path.

If loudmouthed bitterness and defeatism, every glass being 7/16ths full, whininess & know-it-all'ism is your style and animating principle, good luck. It behooves each of us to remember: you don't get to write your own epitaph-- that will, inevitably, be the consensus of your peers.

On the other hand, if you're encouraging and see not only the silver linings but the rainbows that peek through the storm clouds, you're a groovy person in my book.

Messageboards can be so cruel in how revealing they are of a person's inner personality, what a curse, what a blessing...
Old 1 week ago
  #19
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EvilRoy's Avatar
 

Soooo... back to the topic at hand.

Nice to see someone using video and effects. People are visual thinkers. It takes so little to add video editing to a recording rig and go from making recordings to making movies. Like recording though, it’s not about the tools. It’s about how they’re used. I’m an pro animator and will definitely be pumping film outta my studio.

After Effects is $50/month and I’m not big on licensing software. Currently looking at freeware alternatives like DaVinci Resolve. I highly recommend grabbing Blender, not for video but for creating 3D elements.
Old 1 day ago
  #20
Fans of this series will notice a noticeable nostalgia for the first half of the 1970's (this follow-up video is a pastiche of "The Thrill Is Gone," a few moments of "I Know You Rider" and an extended jam of "Low Spark of High Heeled Boys.")

This seems to be a personal problem of mine that only gets worse with age. Once upon a time, in the real time, my exuberance for this era was all about its liberating ethos and exploratory possibilities.... but it seems like now, these emotions are overlaid with a melancholic yearning, a vast unquenchable longing for a vanished world, a world of youth and cars and late nights and high jinks and ...waaaaaaah!

Old 1 day ago
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
This seems to be a personal problem of mine that only gets worse with age. Once upon a time, in the real time, my exuberance for this era was all about its liberating ethos and exploratory possibilities.... but it seems like now, these emotions are overlaid with a melancholic yearning, a vast unquenchable longing for a vanished world, a world of youth and cars and late nights and high jinks and ...
Alternatively, if you could retain your present age, but somehow mess around with the space-time fabric enough to reclaim the mind and outlook you had back then...and then be shocked at how little (or how much) you knew about the machinations of the world, and your place in it.... compared with today's Joel, using the benefit of acquired life experience ?
Old 1 day ago
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Alternatively, if .... ?
No doubt: back then I was a dreamy dreamer, dreaming a dreamer's dream... took me a long while to knuckle down and admit the world is a hard-knock environment, and your dreams need a solid business plan to succeed.

But I look back at my youthful idealism/obliviousness, it was so charming!

The balance between all these competing impulses, the elation vs. the clear-eyed cynicism... yes, that's what I've learned, in my years of studying the effect of gamma rays on man-in-the-moon marigolds.
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