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Should microphones be banned at classical concerts?
Old 11th December 2019
  #1
Should microphones be banned at classical concerts?

Well by jimminy I was so proud that from my cramped little corner of the chapel, I managed to get photos of all the different ensembles to include in the CD artwork-- the tray back, and inside under the clear plastic tray, and throughout the 12 panel booklet... but on second, third, fourth and fifth thought, that QTC 30 on the cover, it's actually blotting out one of the singers! This is unacceptable!
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Should microphones be banned at classical concerts?-siena-tray-back.jpg   Should microphones be banned at classical concerts?-siena-tray-inside.jpg   Should microphones be banned at classical concerts?-siena-booklet-cover.jpg  
Old 11th December 2019
  #2
Gear Addict
Maybe next time ban the mic stands - and suspend them from the ceiling. . .I mean the mics, not the musicians.

Ray H.
Old 11th December 2019
  #3
Lives for gear
 
jimjazzdad's Avatar
I am afraid that many audience members think that microphones should be banned from classical concerts. But, as Ray points out, its really the stands that should be banned. Can't Elon or some other whiz kid come up with electro-magnetically levitated mic clips? Of course then you would probably have to make the mics wireless too...maybe need to rethink this
Old 11th December 2019
  #4
Lives for gear
This is as good a place as the main thread to say that there really are good reasons for making posed photographs of musical groups apart from their actually performing. 1. In theory and hopefully in reality, you can get everyone looking at the camera without any awkward facial expressions. The larger the group, the more likely someone is going to look awkward in a live shot. Shooting live typically means shooting multiple shots trying to get a useable photo which can be distracting. 2. If you need to use lighting, you can use it and then get it out of the way. 3. No DSLR shutter clicks on any recording if DSLR use is limited to the posed group photo. 4. If you have the layout for the CD beforehand, it's possible to overlay it on your shot as you make it to see what the whole thing looks like if you tether your camera in Capture One pro on your computer and use the "shoot to a layout" function. 5. Trying to record and photograph at the same time....not so much fun and the odds of mistakes increase. E.g, you might not notice a mic covering someone's face on the 3" viewscreen on a camera, but you have a better chance of catching it when it pops up on your laptop monitor while shooting in tethered mode.
Old 11th December 2019
  #5
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norfolk martin's Avatar
 

I understand your frustration, but if the microphones were banned, there wouldn't be a CD to put the photographs on in the first place . . .
Old 11th December 2019
  #6
Gear Head
 

Sheet Music Stands should be first to go. Just think about the havoc they make of sound!
Old 12th December 2019
  #7
Lives for gear
Better choirs are trained to look over their hand held music at the conductor and at least have pleasant facial expressions or expressions appropriate to the work performed so it is possible to connect with them as individuals in a photograph. The problem with seated instrumentalists is they are buried in a forest of music stands and their sheet music. These are additional reasons to do posed photographs and not even try to photograph through a visually intrusive mess of stands.

Going through the cover art on two random stacks of CDs just now, 64% were posed, indoor, and professionally lit. 16% were posed, outdoor and professional lit. 4% appeared to be live concert photo, but may have been staged to look that way. The remaining 16% had no photos--only graphics and text. In all cases, the photos were shot against simple backgrounds that had no elements that visually detracted from the subject of the photos.
Old 12th December 2019
  #8
Lives for gear
TV and Film have banned mics and stands for ever
It can be done, but why ?
It never sounds so good as a properly placed array.
Old 12th December 2019
  #9
Lives for gear
 

use a bunch of schoeps extension tubes and floor stands for spot mics and the look is fine - sounds mostly better than just a simple array flown high above an ensemble!

too bad if the videots have to shoot twice, once for what they think looks fine and once for the recording/ broadcasting...

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 12th December 2019 at 11:29 AM.. Reason: wrong pic
Old 12th December 2019
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Helium balloons.

Attach some wireless mics to helium balloons and let them float to the ceiling. Problem solved.

I'm going to make a zillion dollars with my new invention: the Invisa-Mic. They will be totally invisible and use lasers to transmit their output.

I'd better act on this before Elon Musk patents it.
Old 12th December 2019
  #11
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
TV and Film have banned mics and stands for ever
It can be done, but why ?
It never sounds so good as a properly placed array.
Because for those running the show, TV and film are primarily about the visuals. Apart from serious home TV theater enthusiasts, the audio on TV sets and TV set soundbars isn't great even today, much less years ago when there was maybe a 4" speaker behind a grill next to a black and white TV CR tube for many viewers.
Old 12th December 2019
  #12
Lives for gear
I doubt Elton Muskrat could be bothered with something as trivial as a mic stand ?

Helium balloons....as long as you can get them down again without needing a crossbow or rifle: https://www.bauerstudios.de/en/data/...recording.html

As deedeeyeah says, the Schoeps remote extension tubes are elegant, slim and very expensive, or you can just DIY it with some Ikea lighting stands...elegant tall mic stand... by IKEA
Old 12th December 2019
  #13
Nice disc, Joel. Thanks for sharing. I know the group'll love it!
Old 13th December 2019
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorseHorse View Post
Nice disc, Joel. Thanks for sharing. I know the group'll love it!
Thanks for your kind words, they did order copies sight unseen, which is always the bestest of signs.

Here's an ethereal number from the evening called "Ma navu," a classic of the genre...

https://clyp.it/l0goadoy
Old 13th December 2019
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
Well by jimminy I was so proud that from my cramped little corner of the chapel, I managed to get photos of all the different ensembles to include in the CD artwork-- the tray back, and inside under the clear plastic tray, and throughout the 12 panel booklet... but on second, third, fourth and fifth thought, that QTC 30 on the cover, it's actually blotting out one of the singers! This is unacceptable!
Bad photographing and non-existing post production should be banned
Old 13th December 2019
  #16
Lives for gear
 



I thought the microphones were hidden pretty well during the Queens Speech. (In case anyone can not spot them, they are to the left of her head and they are gold.) The Palace of Westminster must have a good tech guy.
Old 13th December 2019
  #17
Gear Addict
 

No, I'd ban the audience.
Old 13th December 2019
  #18
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Poulton View Post
No, I'd ban the audience.
Did a few classical concert recordings recently, and I have to agree.

Why is it that everyone with pneumonia in a 50-mile radius decides to show up and cough continuously?

Chris
Old 14th December 2019
  #19
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Given To Fly View Post


I thought the microphones were hidden pretty well during the Queens Speech. (In case anyone can not spot them, they are to the left of her head and they are gold.) The Palace of Westminster must have a good tech guy.
Or at least a rich one?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #20
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Folkie View Post
Or at least a rich one?
Most mic companies today would entertain the notion of gold-coating a top calibre mic or two of their product line for an appropriate fee, especially if it's likely to garner the media exposure of a British Royal announcement !

Failing that, the royal mic tech guy could get carefully creative with a can of gold spray paint.....
Old 4 weeks ago
  #21
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
you can get all the recordist in One Place at One Time !! bring some GrateFul Dead Sheet Music for the Orchestra !!!!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #22
Lives for gear
 

I'd say this is an issue of photography, not of the recording. A slightly different angle would have solved the problem.

--Ben
Old 3 weeks ago
  #23
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 View Post
TV and Film have banned mics and stands for ever
It can be done, but why ?
It never sounds so good as a properly placed array.
I made a recording of a large brass band in a public hall, many respected brass players, now largely in retirement.

When I arrived it was requested that no microphones should be seen. There were no gantries or a balcony in the hall, just nothing at all from which to hang microphones. I rigged up a heavy duty wire from one side of the auditorium to the other suspended from two lighting supports, which was a really wide stretch, a stand with a pair in the right place would have been better.

The main reason I'm mentioning this is not the mic layout, but the fact that one of the items being played was the 1812 Overture. The cannon was situated in an adjacent room from where I was recording I could see it through an open door. The cannon being used was a large galvanised tank in which explosives were set off. After the first explosive was "released" I could see that the chap reading the score for the subsequent explosions was surrounded by smoke. Each time the cannon was fired the smoke became denser. It took only two firings to make the reading of the score impossible, and there were many more to follow. I was greatly amused by the antics of the gentlemen trying to read the score - I have a low seriousness tolerance level!!

The pièce de résistance though was when the cannon and tubular bells were at full tilt, along with 50+ strong band at full throttle. The smoke from the cannon set off the fire alarms in the auditorium, which were a high level whoop, whoop, whoop kind of sound. The whole thing was chaotic, band, cannons, bells and fire alarms - but very amusing!

Last edited by Geoff Poulton; 1 week ago at 03:28 PM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #24
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Poulton View Post
I made a recording of a large brass band in a public hall, many respected brass players, now largely in retirement.

When I arrived it was requested that no microphones should be seen. There were no gantries in the hall, and nothing at all from which to hang microphones. I rigged up a heavy duty wire from one side of the auditorium to the other, to hang just a pair of mics, a stand with a pair on in the right place would have been better.

The main reason I'm mentioning this is not the mic layout, but the fact that one of the items being played was the 1812 Overture. The cannon was situated in an adjacent room from where I was recording, I could see it through an open door. The cannon being used was a large galvanised tank in which explosives were set off. After the first explosive was "released" I could see that the chap reading the score for the subsequent explosions, was surrounded by smoke. Each time the cannon was fired the smoke became denser. It only took only two firings to make the reading of the score impossible, and there were many more to follow. I was greatly amused by the antics of gentlemen trying to read the score - I have a low seriousness tolerance level!!

The pièce de résistance though was when the cannon and tubular bells were at full throttle, along with 50+ strong band at full throttle. The smoke from the cannon set off the fire alarms in the auditorium, which were a high level whoop, whoop, whoop kind of sound. The whole thing was chaotic, band, cannons, bells and fire alarms - but very amusing!
Never a Dull Moment .... sounds a bit Scary ... Smoke and Fire Alarms Alone .. let Alone a Cannon Going off ... Great Story ..

i was mixing in a video truck behind the hollywood bowl many years ago ... chinese new year show ... i am there in the truck and i hear this thumping on the side near me ... then a guy comes in and says we need you to get out of the truck during the fireworks part of the show ... for the End pretty much .. i looked at him with my fingers on the faders and then he says .. oh, you can't leave .. he says we are covering the truck in asbestos blankets and it might get a little smokey as the AC needs to be turned off .. OK i said and keep on with the show ... then then end comes ... BAM BANG BOOM and the truck is rocking with every launch .. the Tubes were very close to us .. then the Smoke .. i am mixing by hand as the console was getting lost in the smoke .. got pretty nasty towards the end .. long fireworks show .. !!! bad scene in the truck ... never again !!!

Cheers john
Old 3 weeks ago
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Poulton View Post
No, I'd ban the audience.
Except in Japan. That is the only place I've seen the audience sit as silently as an empty seat.
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